Community Feedback - Posting private messages (2 Viewers)

Posting private messages on the forum. Should this be allowed?

  • YES

    Votes: 137 54.6%
  • NO

    Votes: 114 45.4%

  • Total voters
    251
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I think for the sake of simplicity it should be against the ToS to post a DM.

Everyone saying yes seems to be arguing that it would only be ok for a sales deal gone bad.

Given the disclaimer in the classified, this is a problem outside of the responsibility of PCF to moderate. Know the potential risks of using the classified and take whatever precautions needed but don't rely on Tommy and mods to police things for you.

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That is exactly the point for it not being against the ToS.

The mods will not (and simply cannot) police deals gone bad. The only way to prove someone has gone off the rails, is to announce when a deal has gone horrendously wrong.

There once was a "good chipper". A member that lived in Vegas. He was able to get racks upon racks of live chips and had a pretty solid feedback score. What we didn't know was he had developed a pretty bad gambling and drug habit. Sales went sideways. People were shipping him hundreds of dollars, but the feedback wasn't enough to stop more from falling into the trap.

A public outing did the trick.

Now there is a discussion saying that this public outing should not be allowed? :rolleyes:

It is, of course, Tommy's final say. I think the majority, however how slim at this point, is aware of the danger of banning evidence that confirms who the bad actors are.
 
That is exactly the point for it not being against the ToS.

The mods will not (and simply cannot) police deals gone bad. The only way to prove someone has gone off the rails, is to announce when a deal has gone horrendously wrong.

There once was a "good chipper". A member that lived in Vegas. He was able to get racks upon racks of live chips and had a pretty solid feedback score. What we didn't know was he had developed a pretty bad gambling and drug habit. Sales went sideways. People were shipping him hundreds of dollars, but the feedback wasn't enough to stop more from falling into the trap.

A public outing did the trick.

Now there is a discussion saying that this public outing should not be allowed? :rolleyes:

It is, of course, Tommy's final say. I think the majority, however how slim at this point, is aware of the danger of banning evidence that confirms who the bad actors are.
I have no idea about your example. But such an example does not necessarily require posting of a DM.

Someone can be outed as a con artist without posting DMs.

If you have multiple (reputable) people coming forward, that should be enough to convince people there's a bad actor and to avoid that person.

Plus, how can one actually provide evidence they didn't receive anything in the mail? We're just taking people at their word right? So if we're taking their word they didn't receive anything, I'd be inclined to continue to believe them that an agreement and funds were sent. If you have multiple people speak out that should be enough to warn others. No need to post a DM.
 
Hey you know what, good luck PCF. I’m out. :)

And you self-important “OG’s”, salesmen, and beyond, I wish you the best of luck. The day the forums has to ask the community “If posting DMs is okay” , that’s the day when the majority of us should ask ourselves, “Should I even fucking be here?”

Seriously.

I’m in my early twenties - and without us your game is dead.
:rolleyes: Who is the self-important one? This quote seems so fitting for the younger generation. Nothing but scorn and loathing.

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:rolleyes: Who is the self-important one? This quote seems so fitting for the younger generation. Nothing but scorn and loathing.

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Chipping has been around long before June 5, 2020. Members come and members go, but in the relatively short time that I have been a part of it (roughly 10 years), the number of active chippers grown exponentially. Nobody will miss one soul that hasn't made a fraction of the impact as say Ben, Puggy, or Gunnar.

While we may miss them (though I still get to hang with Ben on a regular basis), the hobby and the forum will live on and grow.
 
Chipping has been around long before June 5, 2020. Members come and members go, but in the relatively short time that I have been a part of it (roughly 10 years), the number of active chippers grown exponentially. Nobody will miss one soul that hasn't made a fraction of the impact as say Ben, Puggy, or Gunnar.

While we may miss them (though I still get to hang with Ben on a regular basis), the hobby and the forum will live on and grow.

time will tell.

with rising prices and declining interest in the overall market, it’s looking grim.

Someday it’ll be back to the few handfuls at this rate.

Edit: vote no
 
I have no idea about your example. But such an example does not necessarily require posting of a DM.

Someone can be outed as a con artist without posting DMs.

If you have multiple (reputable) people coming forward, that should be enough to convince people there's a bad actor and to avoid that person.

Plus, how can one actually provide evidence they didn't receive anything in the mail? We're just taking people at their word right? So if we're taking their word they didn't receive anything, I'd be inclined to continue to believe them that an agreement and funds were sent. If you have multiple people speak out that should be enough to warn others. No need to post a DM.
What about the new guy that first falls into a bad deal? Why should they not be protected? Why does it take a chorus of voices, instead of just one?

While you cannot prove a package arrived (unless shipped registered mail), PM's, emails, and texts (which are just as "private" as "conversations") can provide evidence. Both sides make their base case. I prefer evidence over "I remember it this way" when deciding who is right and who is wrong.

Saying "posting of PMs isnt allowed" is like saying...

The following will no longer be allowed on the forum...
  • Reposting PM's
  • Posting email
  • Posting texts
  • Posting anything someone said at a private poker game
  • Posting any hands from players at a private poker game
  • Posting photos of anyone without their written permission sent to a mod before posting
  • Telling anyone the value of a chip or a set of chips based on knowledge gained by a private transaction.
It is important to note, that the only example I have seen so far of a posted PM that didn't involve a bad transaction, was removed by the poster. A new rule simply adds a rule that does practically nothing, except to reduce bad dealings (which are a very small percentage of all deals) to an unverifiable claim.
 
What about the new guy that first falls into a bad deal? Why should they not be protected? Why does it take a chorus of voices, instead of just one?

While you cannot prove a package arrived (unless shipped registered mail), PM's, emails, and texts (which are just as "private" as "conversations") can provide evidence. Both sides make their base case. I prefer evidence over "I remember it this way" when deciding who is right and who is wrong.

Saying "posting of PMs isnt allowed" is like saying...

The following will no longer be allowed on the forum...
  • Reposting PM's
  • Posting email
  • Posting texts
  • Posting anything someone said at a private poker game
  • Posting any hands from players at a private poker game
  • Posting photos of anyone without their written permission sent to a mod before posting
  • Telling anyone the value of a chip or a set of chips based on knowledge gained by a private transaction.
It is important to note, that the only example I have seen so far of a posted PM that didn't involve a bad transaction, was removed by the poster. A new rule simply adds a rule that does practically nothing, except to reduce bad dealings (which are a very small percentage of all deals) to an unverifiable claim.
If you are protected by PayPal... then you paid for “customer protection”. If you risk it, like many fellas on here would be known to do... F&F, then thats 100% on you.

You can not simply trust any forums provider/owner/moderator, to be able to control your P2P online transactions. That’s whack. You risk it. Or pay for protection.

What mod on here is willing to refund a bad transaction? None??? Okay... damn... almost like going through Craigslist, but you can actually put scammers on blast.

It realistically is NOT hard to update a single page whenever a scammer is confirmed - literally can be done through PMs/group PM with mods.
 
I read a few (most) pages and then cast a "No" vote.

Why? Simple. The intent of the communication is to be private and therefore if you post the contents of a PM, it says as much or more, about your character as it does the person, you are most likely, trying to disparage. It should be sufficient that you state -that you had a transaction that wasn't "smooth" (or worse).

Furthermore:
- Just because you and I had a disagreement, or something went wrong, that does not necessitate that your interactions with everyone will be negative.
- Customs vary throughout the world (some are against bartering, others expect it)
- People make mistakes and things do go wrong, not everyone is trying to "play an angle" on you
- People have external factors, that they may choose not to disclose to you, that influence their descions
- What IS posted will be most certainly be out of context and only tells your side of the story (i.e. don't be like the "news", save the propaganda).
- If someone is truly a scammer, I'm sure it will become readily apparent.

And finally they are just chips (<- Yes, I know, I know, this is sacrilegious to some here) :rolleyes:

P.S. Also, there is nothing other than my personal info (address, paypal info, etc.) that I have, or will say, in a conversation (PM) that I am afraid of anyone sharing with anyone else on the forum. If you feel you have the "dirt" on me from a PM, please feel free to post it. :tup:
 
time will tell.

with rising prices and declining interest in the overall market, it’s looking grim.

Someday it’ll be back to the few handfuls at this rate.

Edit: vote no
The first posts I read about rising prices dated back to 2008. Between inflation (which makes all prices rise) and the increase in people buying chips, you thought chip prices would remain stagnant?

There was a huge bump in chip pricing during the poker boom. Thank you poker for making Paulsons harder to get.
Then Paulson stopped making chips for the consumer market. I'm sure you don't remember that sudden surge in pricing either.
Now there has been a resurgence in home poker with the COVID lockdowns. People looking to buy nice chips. More people and less product = an increase in pricing. It's basic economics.

You said "time will tell".
Time has told. You were not listening.
 
I think pretty much everyone agrees that posting pms should only be done under extraordinary circumstances.

But if someone really wants to disseminate pms they've received (which as I mentioned earlier are the legal property of the recipient), they really don't have to post them on PCF. It's easy to post them on social media or on another domain...

That's the problem with hard-and-fast rules -- there's often an easy way around them, given enough incentive.
 
I’m always blown away when people talk about privacy and what their "rights" are. If you want privacy make sure you are in your own house, put your cell phone in another room, close the blinds, go and sit in a dark closet and speak in hushed tones to yourself. Anybody who hears what you say after that is most definitely violating your "right" to privacy and a few laws they could be punished for. We don't need a PCF rule for that, it's already against the law to eavesdrop or break into your house to listen to your closet conversation.

Now you want to add another person to talk to? You want to write it in an email instead? You want to write it in down on a piece of paper and give it to someone? You want to leave a message on someone’s voicemail? You want to type it out in a "conversation" on an internet forum and hit send? You have zero expectation of privacy. You should just assume anything you say or write down in mixed company will be shared. Just assume the person you are gossiping to or whatever is going to tell whoever it was you were taking about what you said directly after you say it.

If a trusted friend, internet or irl, posts your "conversations" to an open forum and you've said something embarrassing then that pertain wasn't really a friend. Bummer deal, that would suck, but that's not what is happening.

If someone has a deal gone bad or is talking shit about someone else and it gets posted oh well. Either don't scam people or be willing to say what you type on the internet to a person's face and life won't be a big deal. It's real easy to type on the internet (I would LOVE to be able to stand in front of a certain member here and print him out what he typed years ago and have him read it to me one dat ;) ), but if you are mindful of your words I don't think you have a problem.
 
If someone has a deal gone bad or is talking shit about someone else and it gets posted oh well. Either don't scam people or be willing to say what you type on the internet to a person's face and life won't be a big deal. It's real easy to type on the internet (I would LOVE to be able to stand in front of a certain member here and print him out what he typed years ago and have him read it to me one dat ;) ), but if you are mindful of your words I don't think you have a problem.
Wait, what! You mean I need to be accountable for stuff I say!

Next thing you know, you're going to tell me I need to act like a grown-up! :wtf::LOL: :laugh:
 
Hey you know what, good luck PCF. I’m out. :)

And you self-important “OG’s”, salesmen, and beyond, I wish you the best of luck. The day the forums has to ask the community “If posting DMs is okay” , that’s the day when the majority of us should ask ourselves, “Should I even fucking be here?”

Seriously.

I’m in my early twenties - and without us your game is dead.

Well toodle-oo then captain! Have fun with your dice chips and $20 buy-ins. I sure hope our games don't die after you leave! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

time will tell.

with rising prices and declining interest in the overall market, it’s looking grim.
I take it you weren't an econ major in college? Lol. Rising prices AND declining interest? That's impressive.

Someday it’ll be back to the few handfuls at this rate.

Care to place a side bet on that prediction, Nostradamus?
 
If you are protected by PayPal... then you paid for “customer protection”. If you risk it, like many fellas on here would be known to do... F&F, then thats 100% on you.

You can not simply trust any forums provider/owner/moderator, to be able to control your P2P online transactions. That’s whack. You risk it. Or pay for protection.

What mod on here is willing to refund a bad transaction? None??? Okay... damn... almost like going through Craigslist, but you can actually put scammers on blast.

It realistically is NOT hard to update a single page whenever a scammer is confirmed - literally can be done through PMs/group PM with mods.
Have fun filing your federal taxes if you sell just about anything on here in 2022 ;)
 
Well toodle-oo then captain! Have fun with your dice chips and $20 buy-ins. I sure hope our games don't die after you leave! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:


I take it you weren't an econ major in college? Lol. Rising prices AND declining interest? That's impressive.



Care to place a side bet on that prediction, Nostradamus?
Gonna print this message out and hang it up on my wall.

@ReallyGoodUsername you seem to be the best man on here thats for sure
 
Perhaps worth pointing out is the fact that PCF does not actually have "PMs" despite most people here referring to them as such. The Xenforo forum software behind this site intentionally refers to them as "Conversations" so as to avoid any confusion regarding issues of privacy.

That said. Don't be a douche. Don't out people's personal messages to you behind their back unless they've scammed you or slandered you in some way. Although this is almost never an issue. The only person I've seen sharing personal messages here so far is @davin. Might want to think twice before you send him a message.
 
The easiest rule would be a "No". It's very easy to determine when it's broken. However, in my experience, rules that are clear cut and simple are not always the fairest approach. I've seen this in sports and at workplaces: Black/white rule are put in place which simplifies things for the enforcer(s) but make the playing field less fair.

Don't get me wrong, those type of rules have their place. But in this instance I voted "Yes". I think it should be allowed, but ony in extreme circumstances as mentioned by others above. There will of course be gray areas and enforcement will be less clear cut.

Please note that I don't intend to, and never have, shared a PM publicly. Not even in jest.
 
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Well, I told myself I wasn't going to post in this thread, but here we go.

I voted "Yes", because I don't think there should be a rule against posting messages publicly. Yes, I think it's almost always wrong to post private messages publicly, and I hope to never be in a situation where I feel I would have to, although I definitely have been close to doing it before as a last resort.

Since I joined about a year ago, I've been overwhelmed at the sense of community here. Which is pretty surprising considering we're essentially all just a bunch of randos passing around large amounts of money on an internet forum. But there is a huge sense of trust...that's what makes the classifieds possible. I trust that if I send you money, I'll eventually get my chips. Knowing that there is some level of accountability by being able to expose conversations as a last resort helps with that trust. Making rules against this kind of transparency, just gives people walls to hide behind.

Again, I don't think there's a clear-cut answer on when it's okay to post private messages, but I don't believe that it should be against to forum rules.
 
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