Colorado Chippers | Amendment 77 (1 Viewer)

No Limit starts tomorrow and I just saw Monarch Casino is opening a new poker room, this will be the first new poker room in probably ~15 years up there.... should be a great time, I’m going up Sunday for the first time since Jan 2020....... :tup:
I was reminded of this thread when a new guy showed up at our 20/40 game this week. One of the players said I recognize you from LA or somewhere and he went on to say he used to live in LA and then moved to CO to play the 30/60 game for 5 or 6 years and now that all the rooms there are completely dead he has moved on. He says there used to be 30 tables filled constantly and now since they started NL they struggle to fill 4 or 5 tables. Just terrible.

NL took just over 1 yr to destroy the entire CO poker ecosystem.

Just saw this.
Too bad...
I know it is what you all were hoping for, and yes it will be good for a year or two but nl is unsustainable. The strong players take all the money too fast and when all the weak players give up and there are no new players (like everywhere else right now) what do you really think is going to happen?
You all had a good thing going. In a couple years or so it will be just like everywhere else. 1 or 2 tables of 1/2nl and maybe (if you are lucky) 1 table of 2/5nl on fri night with every table filled with nits and all horrible games. Sad to see such a good thing come to an end.

Mark my words, nl is a Cancer to the card room and it will kill your room if you allow it to start
Took just a little over 1 yr for my prediction to come true
mark my words, you are wrong
Well, I guess I knew what I was talking about
 
Took just a little over 1 yr for my prediction to come true
Well, I guess I knew what I was talking about
tenor (12).gif
 
Colorado poker is finished for sure. My friends go up there and win tournaments and cash on a regular basis. Then they cut up the cash games. I blame them.

And Covid has nothing to do with closing of poker rooms either or any other businesses for that matter. "It's the damn NL hold em and the players that support it."

[End of Quote]
[Repeat the Line]

Ha ha!
 
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I was reminded of this thread when a new guy showed up at our 20/40 game this week. One of the players said I recognize you from LA or somewhere and he went on to say he used to live in LA and then moved to CO to play the 30/60 game for 5 or 6 years and now that all the rooms there are completely dead he has moved on. He says there used to be 30 tables filled constantly and now since they started NL they struggle to fill 4 or 5 tables. Just terrible.

NL took just over 1 yr to destroy the entire CO poker ecosystem.


Took just a little over 1 yr for my prediction to come true

Well, I guess I knew what I was talking about


what room closed?
 
what room closed?
He didn't say any of the rooms closed. He just said that the number of tables that are filled is down dramatically from something like 30+ on a regular basis to now usually not more than 4 or 5. I don't play there so I am just reporting what someone else told me.
 
I think the last time I played there it was like 18 tables full 3 months ago at monarch.
 
There’s 4 tables of 1/3 NL running at 9:15 on a Tuesday morning with ~20 on the list. Yep, poker is definitely dead.

The limit game probably dried up since it was the only way to get bigger action, but isn’t necessary anymore.

Took just a little over 1 yr for my prediction to come true
Don’t crown yourself so soon.
 
There’s 4 tables of 1/3 NL running at 9:15 on a Tuesday morning with ~20 on the list. Yep, poker is definitely dead.

The limit game probably dried up since it was the only way to get bigger action, but isn’t necessary anymore.


Don’t crown yourself so soon.
wait, I just looked. I am not sure what your point is. There are 5 tables spread across 4 card rooms right now at 9:47am on a tue. All of them are 1-3
HS Blackhawk (0)
Monarch Blackhawk (2) both are 1-3nl
Bally's Blackhawk (0)
Ameristar Blackhawk (3) both are 1-3nl

This is not proof of a healthy state of poker in said location. No card room is going to be happy/profitable with an average of 1.25 tables running
 
What killed poker in my area wasn't NL. It was the fact that we went from one room to three room to seven rooms. NL definitely killed the limit game, but that only caused 3 people out of 400 to become butthurt over it. Now the market is just oversaturated
 
wait, I just looked. I am not sure what your point is. There are 5 tables spread across 4 card rooms right now at 9:47am on a tue. All of them are 1-3
HS Blackhawk (0)
Monarch Blackhawk (2) both are 1-3nl
Bally's Blackhawk (0)
Ameristar Blackhawk (3) both are 1-3nl

This is not proof of a healthy state of poker in said location. No card room is going to be happy/profitable with an average of 1.25 tables running
Um, I hate to break it to you but 10am on a Tuesday is no measure for how the rooms are doing..........these are isolated in the mountains of the front range, a good 40 minute drive for ~98% of the playing population (for me it's 1hr 20minutes each way....)
I can assure you that poker is not dead in CO, if anything it is growing......Monarch added ~20-30 tables and Ameristar still has players.
We just don't have the 24hr non-stop action due to the location of said poker rooms.....check those numbers on Friday/Saturday/Sunday.....
 
What killed poker in my area wasn't NL. It was the fact that we went from one room to three room to seven rooms. NL definitely killed the limit game, but that only caused 3 people out of 400 to become butthurt over it. Now the market is just oversaturated
I think people misunderstand my position on nl. Don't get me wrong, I would love to play a huge nl game with a bunch of really bad poker players with unlimited deep pockets who would all keep coming to my game forever while I continue to fleece them. You all are saying hey, I want to play in a really great nl game. I agree, and I do too, that just isn't the reality of how poker works though.

If given a choice of playing in a good limit game or playing in no game at all (or a really bad nl game), I choose limit all day long. In my opinion, this is more of what the reality of poker is long term. I do not believe there is such a thing as a good nl game long term except in certain locations like maybe LA, Vegas and possibly FL, all of which are destination locations where there is a massive amount money flowing into the place because of tourists etc. Just look at what has happened in the Phoenix area. They used to offer only limit and they had fantastic games, but now with nl, even there where you have lots and lots of retired, wealthy people looking to spend their money the games are drying up.

It is kind of like a short quick con or the long con. You can pull off a quick 1 time con and probably get away with it once. It will be profitable, but not all that profitable. In order to pull off the long con though, you have to be more patient. Think about the hooker that goes up back to your room with you and when you wake up in the am your wallet is gone and you are out a few hundred bucks vs the cunning bitch that marries you for your money just to eventually take half of everything you have.
 
Um, I hate to break it to you but 10am on a Tuesday is no measure for how the rooms are doing..........these are isolated in the mountains of the front range, a good 40 minute drive for ~98% of the playing population (for me it's 1hr 20minutes each way....)
I can assure you that poker is not dead in CO, if anything it is growing......Monarch added ~20-30 tables and Ameristar still has players.
We just don't have the 24hr non-stop action due to the location of said poker rooms.....check those numbers on Friday/Saturday/Sunday.....
Dude, I am fully aware of this. I was not the one that quoted there being 4 tables running @ 9:15 on a tue am as proof that poker in CO is healthy, ruskba was....

There’s 4 tables of 1/3 NL running at 9:15 on a Tuesday morning with ~20 on the list. Yep, poker is definitely dead.......


Don’t crown yourself so soon.
ok, fair enough. I was just reporting something that another player told me. When this whole thing started if you look back, I said it would take a couple years and it has been like 13 months so far. For sure, it would be more fair to look at Bravo on a Fri night or Sat night and compare that to previous Fri or Sat nights but I am pretty sure that when we do, we will find no where the number of games that were previously running and pretty much no limit games at all. From what was reported to me, it sounds like it is headed in the direction that I thought it would.
 
now since they started NL they struggle to fill 4 or 5 tables. Just terrible.

There’s 4 tables of 1/3 NL running at 9:15 on a Tuesday morning with ~20 on the list.

Pretty clear counterpoint to your assertion that CO struggles to fill 4-5 tables at all.

My point is that if we have that many tables on a random Tuesday morning, I don’t think we’re struggling nearly as much as you think.

I’ll be sure to keep an eye on the Bravo numbers over evenings to see how they look.
 
Pretty clear counterpoint to your assertion that CO struggles to fill 4-5 tables at all.

My point is that if we have that many tables on a random Tuesday morning, I don’t think we’re struggling nearly as much as you think.

I’ll be sure to keep an eye on the Bravo numbers over evenings to see how they look.
What the fellow was saying is that Ameristar struggles to fill 4 or 5 tables during the day, when it had many more previously. I doubt they are struggling to fill 4 tables on a Fri night.
 
Ok, I think I'm starting to see what the issue is, you are a Limit fan and the NL killed that off, that we can agree on, the 30/60 Limit game basically died a year ago (there is a hard core group that tries to get it running Fri/Sat now, but yes it was running constantly pre-NL).......you are correct, Limit Poker in CO is dead.....from my point of view it's an "oh well *shrug*"..........
But poker in general is doing just fine up there.....
 
Ok, I think I'm starting to see what the issue is, you are a Limit fan and the NL killed that off, that we can agree on, the 30/60 Limit game basically died a year ago (there is a hard core group that tries to get it running Fri/Sat now, but yes it was running constantly pre-NL).......you are correct, Limit Poker in CO is dead.....from my point of view it's an "oh well *shrug*"..........
But poker in general is doing just fine up there.....
It isn't so much that I am a "limit guy" as I am a poker guy. I have seen nl run its course in countless cities and cardrooms and it always ends badly. It isn't a limit vs nl thing as all of you seem to think that is what I am saying. It more like long term you can have lots of players and lots of games and limit or you can have almost no players and almost no card rooms and have a really bad nl game. Those are your choices. That is it, no other choices.....

It may appear that poker is just fine, but it really isn't. Once nl is introduced, new players stop becoming regulars & lots of regulars that used to lose an acceptable amount start losing too much so they quit. Break even players become losing players and they quit too. It is a vicious cycle that always ends badly.

You guys will see the games continue to get worse and worse. Eventually there will be a few 1-2nl or 1-3 games and maybe 1 2-5nl game on Fri or Sat night and pretty much all the games will be garbage. Looking back, you will say "hey, I remember this Nanook guy from PCF saying it would look like this one day"
 
It is kind of like a short quick con or the long con. You can pull off a quick 1 time con and probably get away with it once. It will be profitable, but not all that profitable. In order to pull off the long con though, you have to be more patient. Think about the hooker that goes up back to your room with you and when you wake up in the am your wallet is gone and you are out a few hundred bucks vs the cunning bitch that marries you for your money just to eventually take half of everything you have.
If your concept were accurate - that players are quitting poker because they keep losing, there would be no casinos. People go and most people lose. The same for sportsbooks and sports betting apps. There are a handful of winners and a bus-load of losers. Still, people keep coming back.

I agree with @nitzilla - perhaps limit poker is dead, but poker in general is fine.
 
AmeriStar’s Poker Room is getting smaller because they want it that way. Prior to the pandemic, they removed around 1/3 of it to make way for several banks of slot machines.
Monarch was very aggressive opening their Poker Room post-pandemic. They went after lots of dealers and poker room employees at AmeriStar (and other rooms up there). For years, AmeriStar had a monopoly on cash games up there. Once they faced some real competition, they surrendered, and never really countered. Instead, they just went ahead and shrunk the size of their room even more.
 
If your concept were accurate - that players are quitting poker because they keep losing, there would be no casinos. People go and most people lose......
This is not a concept that is lost on me. They are not quitting poker because they are losing, they are quitting poker because they are losing too much too fast.

If someone can afford to lose $1000/month and they enjoy it enough they might lose $1000/ month for decades, maybe even many decades. $12,000/yr * 50 or more yrs might have this hypothetical person lose $600,000 + over many yrs.

If that same person got cleaned out of their $1000 in one session in an hr or two and then they couldn't come back for another month and then in month 2 the exact same thing happens and again in month 3 etc, how how long do you think this will go on? You might extract 6k out of this person before they just give up on poker and find something else to do with their money

Do you see what I am talking about? In one situation someone gets $1000 maybe 6 times playing nl and in the other someone gets $600,000 over many years playing limit.

I agree with @nitzilla - perhaps limit poker is dead, but poker in general is fine.
We will have to agree to disagree here. The proof will come over time. If it is like every other place where nl is introduced, then nl will eventually ruin the game. If CO is a unique 1 off, then maybe somehow poker will flourish in CO.
 
If someone can afford to lose $1000/month and they enjoy it enough they might lose $1000/ month for decades, maybe even many decades. $12,000/yr * 50 or more yrs might have this hypothetical person lose $600,000 + over many yrs.

If that same person got cleaned out of their $1000 in one session in an hr or two and then they couldn't come back for another month and then in month 2 the exact same thing happens and again in month 3 etc, how how long do you think this will go on? You might extract 6k out of this person before they just give up on poker and find something else to do with their money
I agree with you here - in theory only. In actuality, very few dive in to poker dropping a grand in an hour.

More and more new players are coming in from either internet poker or home games. They may still lose, but their losses will be slim.

In the old days home poker was kitchen table games with 3 wild cards and there was no internet. Limit was absolutely necessary then, because you had to cut your teeth in a card room. Today, the fishes swim with little fishes. If they think they are good enough they can go to a card room and play with the bigger fish. Even if they are still poor players, they are less likely to lose stacks after stacks because they already have experience.

I for one, don't play in a lot of casinos because 1) it's a bit of a drive, and 2) home games where NL is predominantly played is just as fun (perhaps even more-so) - and rake free!
 
There’s a difference between a casino running a “poker game” and a casino running a “regular home game”.
Having a lot of regulars may fool someone into thinking poker is booming there, when in fact it’s the same 12-16 guys paying the rake so they can hang out. Nobodies making bank, not even the casino.
 
Looks like Monarch must be picking up where Ameristar gave up. Still 8 tables at Ameristar, 5 at Bally’s and 4 at Horseshoe in addition to Monarch’s 14.

Does seem that the people flock to the promotions, monarch has a descending BBJ that’s getting high.


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