Christy & Jones THC v Paulson THC

mathewsarcher83

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So I’ve been curious about these type of chips as I’ve seen some listings in the last couple months. To my knowledge I have never had any CJ chips in my possession and was wondering if one would be able perceive the difference between them and garden variety Paulson THCs.

With my naked eye I would probably guess “no” but was curious what others have to say.
 

allforcharity

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Of the CJ chips I've ever owned/handled, they are distinctive for their very sharp mold recesses in the hats and canes. As well, they can look quite shiny when you angle it to the light just right.
 

mathewsarcher83

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been eyeing a rack that on here/eBay but wasn’t sure if they were SO different from the Paulsons that they’d be weird to have in a set
 

markleteenie

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been eyeing a rack that on here/eBay but wasn’t sure if they were SO different from the Paulsons that they’d be weird to have in a set
No, I had it in a mixed set and the chips played together fine. I can almost always visually and physically tell the difference between C&J and Paulson THC, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing to me.

To me, C&J are akin to BCC in chip texture. And BCC make some of my favorite chips.



 

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So I’ve been curious about these type of chips as I’ve seen some listings in the last couple months. To my knowledge I have never had any CJ chips in my possession and was wondering if one would be able perceive the difference between them and garden variety Paulson THCs.

With my naked eye I would probably guess “no” but was curious what others have to say.
Yeah, if you mean garden variety leaded paulson THC's you should be able to feel and hear the difference. Eyeball is a little tougher.
 

mathewsarcher83

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Yeah, if you mean garden variety leaded paulson THC's you should be able to feel and hear the difference. Eyeball is a little tougher.
Yep - I imagine feel is more apparent than look. I wouldn’t have known random chips were under the CJ umbrella just by looking
 

K ALL IN 9

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One of the distinguishing features is the tge way the edgespots are shaped in these areas (concave instead of straight across) and is most noticeable on the 312 spots. Another feature already mention is the shiny hat and canes

20200730_102547.jpg
 

cpac54

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Sorry for the ignorance, but what’s the history on C&J? Precursor to Paulson, from whom Paulson acquired the THC mold? Thanks! :)
 

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Christy & Jones chips were made by Burt/ASM up until the early 70s. The mold was sold to Paulson sometime in the 60's and Burt continued to make them until Paulson started manufacturing their own chips.
I've always wondered about what exactly is meant by "bought the mold". It obviously means the right to manufacture, but does it ever mean "bought the cups"?

As in, it sure looks like C&J made that "Paul-Son Dice Co." chip.
 

GianThaMan

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I've always wondered about what exactly is meant by "bought the mold". It obviously means the right to manufacture, but does it ever mean "bought the cups"?
I think it means they bought the cups, and allowed whoever is manufacturing them to continue, probably keeping a royalty.
 

mtl mile end

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I think it means they bought the cups, and allowed whoever is manufacturing them to continue, probably keeping a royalty.
Excellent answer. However, does that mean that Paulson used the same cups for their LCV's but lathed them to different a size?
Which would mean that Paulson LCV's exist with the smooth hats. :wow:
Aaannnd.....when were the cups replaced, resulting in the coarser, acid etched hats?
 

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Excellent answer. However, does that mean that Paulson used the same cups for their LCV's but lathed them to different a size?
Which would mean that Paulson LCV's exist with the smooth hats. :wow:
Aaannnd.....when were the cups replaced, resulting in the coarser, acid etched hats?
If by "Paulson" you mean "leaded Paulsons" my guess would be no. Just a guess based on nothing more than having owned lightweight LCV's produced in the late70's, my guess is that the cups were replaced when Paulson started manufacturing their own chips with their leaded clay formula.
 
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mtl mile end

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If by "Paulson" you mean "leaded Paulsons" my guess would be no. Just a guess based on nothing more than having owned lightweight LCV's produced in the late70's, my guess is that the cups were replaced when Paulson started manufacturing their own chips with their leaded clay formula.
I meant any Paulson LCV - Home market or Casino. I just assumed they were all leaded since the mold seems to have been retired long before "unleading" began.

I cannot really follow any of this statement except "my guess is that the cups were replaced when Paulson started manufacturing their own chips with their leaded clay formula". With this I concur.
 

JMC9389

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I believe the cane's on the C+J THC molded chips is slightly longer and is set at less of an angle than the typical Paulson THC mold as well.
 

BearMetal

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I believe the cane's on the C+J THC molded chips is slightly longer and is set at less of an angle than the typical Paulson THC mold as well.
There's too much speculation here. Someone break out the calipers...
 

mtl mile end

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I believe the cane's on the C+J THC molded chips is slightly longer and is set at less of an angle than the typical Paulson THC mold as well.
Thinking you were nuts, I just looked - very carefully. I don't have a micrometer, but my reading glasses, light, and 50X magnifier lead me to determine that you may be correct, and that I am probably nuts. Have you noticed the width of the hats? :nailbite:
 

gmunny

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I believe Spragg said that C&J and Paulson used the same LCV molds, its just that for C&J shiny hats, the molds were "polished" before being put into use. I read the cane size in another article, but Spragg said that any difference in size of cane was probably due to small tolerances/differences cup to cup. He posted it on the Chip Board somewhere.
 

BGinGA

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Bill Christy and Bud Jones designed the original Top Hat & Cane mold in the mid-1950s. Burt Co. initially made the THC mold chips (along with HHL and Diamond mold chips) for Christy & Jones, using cups that were machined/polished (vs acid-etched), which created the 'shiny hat' effect. The mold cups for the Diamond and THC chips were sold to Paul-Son by Pat Sullivan after C&J was dissolved in 1965, but remained at Burt Co. who made THC chips for Paul-Son from 1964 until 1975, when the THC molds were transferred to Paul-Son. New colors specific only to chips supplied to Paul-Son were added during this time.

All of the C&J THC mold chips made by Burt Co. were long-cane version (LCV) and made with unleaded materials. Burt Co. also produced LCV chips for Paul-Son with molds that weren't polished (no shiny hats) and with SCV molds as well.

All of the Paul-Son produced molds were acid-etched but not polished, and their insert dies were more irregular than those used by Burt Co. Edge spots (inserts) on THC chips produced by Burt Co. were curved along the inner diameter, and the chips were also lighter, slightly thicker, and slightly larger diameter than the THC mold chips later produced by Paul-Son.

The C&J THC mold chips (all LCV), having been made by Burt Co., are slightly larger than 39mm and do not contain lead. The THC chips produced by Paul-Son (both LCV and SCV) contained lead from roughly 1975-1998 with some colors remaining leaded until 2005 or so. Both the LCV and SCV molds are still interchangeably used by GPI today, often producing Paulson brand chips with LCV markings on one side and SCV markings on the opposite side.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little Paul-Son history:

1963:
Upon owner Paul Endy, Sr.'s retirement from T.R.King, his son and top TRK salesman Paul Endy, Jr. also left T.R.King and started the Paul-Son Dice & Card Company in Las Vegas, NV with partner Curley Ashworth.

1970:
Paul Endy, Sr. sold his half-ownership of T.R.King to partner George Davies, while his son and TRK General Manager Charles Endy left the company and started the Top Hat and Cane Company, which manufactured compression clay chips using a new process (lower temperatures and pressures).

1975:
Charles Endy moved his chip-making business to Las Vegas, joining brother Paul Endy, Jr. to create Paul-Son Gaming Supplies, manufacturing and selling dice, cards, and poker chips.

1975-1982:
Top Hat & Cane chips were produced by Paul-Son in Las Vegas, NV. Edge spots produced by Paul-Son were more irregular in shape. These chips contained high levels of lead (up to 47% by weight).

1982:
Paul-Son production moved to San Luis, Mexico.

1993:
A new reversed Hat & Cane (RHC) rim mold was introduced, to accommodate Paul-son's new wide graphic and full graphic inlaid chips, and production capacity in Mexico was increased to handle the new product line.

1993:
Paul-Son begins offering custom chips and home sets for sale in their retail stores located in Las Vegas and Atlantic City and via mail order.

1994:
Initial stock offering transformed Paul-Son Gaming Supplies, Inc. into Paul-Son Gaming Corporation.

1995:
New manufacturing facility opened in San Luis, Mexico for replacement products.

1997:
Production capacity in Mexico expanded to roughly 65 million chips/year.

1998-2002:
Paul-Son starts systematically removing lead content from chip material formulas for all colors. Most were converted by 2002 except for five colors; all were relatively lead-free by 2005. Shaped inlays also started disappearing during this time, and glossy inlay laminates were first introduced (presumably to facilitate new security features).

2002:
Gaming Partners International Corporation (GPI) formed through a reverse merger between Paul-Son Gaming Corp. and Bourgogne et Grasset (B&G). GPI stops selling Paulson chips to the home market. GPI later purchases Gemaco, Dolphin Products, and Blue Chip Co., adding them to their Paulson, Bud Jones, and B&G brands.

2002:
Charles Endy and son Mike Endy started the Blue Chip Company (BCC) in 2002 following the reverse merger of Paul-Son and B&G that created Gaming Partners International (GPI). BCC was later purchased by GPI in 2012.

2004-2005:
GPI begins manufacturing Paulson chips for the home market using glossy inlays and two non-casino molds -- the PAULSON CHIPS mold and the Card Pips (suits) mold -- in a deal brokered by distributor Trademark Poker. Offerings included the colored-inlay Top Hat & Cane (often referred to as Classics), Casino de Isthmus City, National Poker Series, World Top Hat & Cane, and Pharaoh's Club & Casino. Chiptalk.net was founded as a vehicle for design, group buy orders and distribution of the initial run of Pharaoh's Club chips. Hot-stamped chips on the Card Pips mold (Private Cardroom, Avalon Club, Grand Cardroom, and custom stamped solids) are later made available from Apache Poker Chips.

2012:
GPI buys Blue Chip Co. assets, and later offers a new Blue Chip line of lower-cost low-denomination/no-value chips using limited spot patterns and ten BCC colors on the Sun mold (renamed 'Flower' mold).

2017-2019:
GPI allows clay 'promotional' chips on the Lammer mold to be sold by Gemaco through authorized distributors, using a single white 312 spot pattern and limited to ten BCC colors.

2019:
GPI acquired by Angel Holdings.


* edited/updated for clarity and content accuracy
 
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JMC9389

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Bill Christy and Bud Jones designed the Top Hat & Cane mold in the mid-1950s. Burt Co. made the THC mold chips (along with HHL and Diamond mold chips) for Christy & Jones, using cups that were machined/polished (vs acid-etched), which created the 'shiny hat' effect. The mold cups for the Diamond and THC chips were sold to Paulson by Pat Sullivan after C&J was dissolved in 1965, but remained at Burt Co. who made THC chips for Paulson from 1964 until possibly as late as 1979. New colors specific only to chips supplied to Paulson were added during this time. The actual date that Burt Co. stopped making chips for Paul-Son is unclear, but is assumed to be some time between 1975 and 1979.

All of the THC mold chips made by Burt Co. were long-cane version (LCV) and made with unleaded materials, as the short-cane version molds weren't introduced until after Paulson moved chip production in-house using different molds, different materials, and a different compression molding process (lower temperatures and pressures than Burt Co.).

All of the Paulson-made molds were acid-etched, and the insert dies were more irregular than those used by Burt Co. Edge spots (inserts) on THC chips produced by Burt Co. were curved along the inner diameter, and the chips were also lighter, slightly thicker, and slightly larger diameter than the THC mold chips later produced by Paulson.

The C&J THC mold chips (all LCV), having been made by Burt Co., are slightly larger than 39mm and do not contain lead. The THC chips produced by Paulson (both LCV and SCV) contained lead from roughly 1975-1998 with some colors remaining leaded until 2005 or so. Both the LCV and SCV molds are still interchangeably used by Paulson today, often producing chips with LCV markings on one side and SCV markings on the opposite side.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little Paul-Son history:

1963:
Upon owner Paul Endy, Sr.'s retirement from T.R.King, his son and top TRK salesman Paul Endy, Jr. also left T.R.King and started the Paul-Son Dice & Card Company in Las Vegas, NV with partner Curley Ashworth.

1970:
Paul Endy, Sr. sold his half-ownership of T.R.King to partner George Davies, while his son and TRK General Manager Charles Endy left the company and started the Top Hat and Cane Company, which manufactured compression clay chips using a new process (lower temperatures and pressures).

1975:
Charles Endy moved his chip-making business to Las Vegas, joining brother Paul Endy, Jr. to create Paul-Son Gaming Supplies, manufacturing and selling dice, cards, and poker chips.

197x-1982:
Top Hat & Cane chips were produced by Paul-Son in Las Vegas, NV. Edge spots produced by Paul-Son were more irregular in shape. These chips contained high levels of lead (up to 47% by weight). Actual start date for Paul-Son THC production is unknown, but believed to be sometime between 1975-1977.

1982:
Paul-Son production moved to San Luis, Mexico.

1993:
A new reversed Hat & Cane (RHC) rim mold was introduced, to accommodate Paul-son's new wide graphic and full graphic inlaid chips, and production capacity in Mexico was increased to handle the new product line.

1993:
Paul-Son begins offering custom chips and home sets for sale in their retail stores located in Las Vegas and Atlantic City and via mail order.

1994:
Initial stock offering transformed Paul-Son Gaming Supplies, Inc. into Paul-Son Gaming Corporation.

1995:
New manufacturing facility opened in San Luis, Mexico for replacement products.

1997:
Production capacity in Mexico expanded to roughly 65 million chips/year.

1998-2002:
Paulson starts systematically removing lead content from chip material formulas for all colors. Most were converted by 2002 except for five colors; all were relatively lead-free by 2005. Shaped inlays also started disappearing during this time, and glossy inlay laminates were first introduced (presumably to facilitate new security features).

2002:
Gaming Partners International Corporation (GPI) formed through a reverse merger between Paul-Son Gaming Corp. and Bourgogne et Grasset (B&G). GPI stops selling Paulson chips to the home market. GPI later purchases Gemaco, Dolphin Products, and Blue Chip Co., adding them to their Paulson, Bud Jones, and B&G brands.

2002:
Charles Endy and son Mike Endy started the Blue Chip Company (BCC) in 2002 following the reverse merger of Paulson and B&G that created Gaming Partners International (GPI). BCC was later purchased by GPI in 2012.

2004-2005:
GPI begins manufacturing Paulson chips for the home market using glossy inlays and two non-casino molds -- the PAULSON CHIPS mold and the Card Pips (suits) mold -- in a deal brokered by distributor Trademark Poker. Offerings included the colored-inlay Top Hat & Cane, Casino de Isthmus City,National Poker Series, World Top Hat & Cane, and Pharaoh's Club & Casino. Chiptalk.net was founded as a vehicle for design, group buy orders and distribution of the initial run of Pharaoh's Club chips. Hot-stamped chips on the Card Pips mold (Private Cardroom, Avalon Club, Grand Cardroom, and custom stamped solids) are later made available from Apache Poker Chips.

2012:
GPI buys Blue Chip Co. assets, and later offers a new Blue Chip line of lower-cost low-denomination/no-value chips using limited spot patterns and ten BCC colors on the Sun mold (renamed 'Flower' mold).

2017-2019:
GPI allows clay 'promotional' chips on the Lammer mold to be sold by Gemaco through authorized distributors, using a single white 312 spot pattern and limited to ten BCC colors.

2019:
GPI acquired by Angel Holdings.
This needs to be under the resource tab.
 

upNdown

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1998-2002:
Paulson starts systematically removing lead content from chip material formulas for all colors. Most were converted by 2002 except for five colors; all were relatively lead-free by 2005. Shaped inlays also started disappearing during this time, and glossy inlay laminates were first introduced (presumably BECAUSE PAULSON HATES US ALL).
Fixed that for you
 

gmunny

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Here's the post from David Spragg about the H&C mold. He was answering a question from @Jeff in Iowa . When i read his post, there were afew things that i did not realize, including that SCV chips were made by Burt Co from 1964 and that both Shiny and Non Shiny LCV chisp were also made by Burt. He also says that the molds went to Paulson in 1975.

http://www.thechipboard.com/index.c...en-did-paul-son-start-manufacturing-th-c-chi/

http://www.thechipboard.com/index.c...en-did-paul-son-start-manufacturing-th-c-chi/

http://www.thechipboard.com/index.c...en-did-paul-son-start-manufacturing-th-c-chi/
 
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