Chris Ferguson is a monster (1 Viewer)

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Ferguson had 17 cashes at the WSOP this year to move into 2nd place for all time cashes with 113. Helmuth is first with 134, Negreanu is 3rd with 108. But it's not the 17 that make him a monster, its the total of 44 he has in the last three years (not counting the 6 he got in Europe last year, though I expect those count) after taking 5 full years off. 44 is a shockingly huge number when you consider that only about 100 men have been able to accumulate that many WSOP cashes in their lifetimes, and he's done in in three years. After taking 5 years off.
I'm sure a lot of people think he's scum after full tilt. Without knowing the details, I guess he have to assume he is. But he's also kind of quietly reemerged as one of the great tournament players of our time.
 
I agree. And there has been little coverage of his recent accomplishments.
 
I agree. And there has been little coverage of his recent accomplishments.

media cant cover him in a positive light or they will get flamed. There are so many unknown factors about Black Friday I lean toward giving Jesus the benefit of the doubt.

Always seemed like a reasonable guy.
 
When I saw the subject line, I thought monster meant something entirely different!

Ferguson may be a great poker player, but I cannot bring myself to give him the benefit of the doubt. It seems that Full Tilt was going to crash and burn anyway, and Black Friday simply hastened the inevitable outcome. There are so many things he could have done during his five years of silence, and IMO his public apology was long overdue and pretty lame. He has done nothing to earn my respect.

Carry on . . .
 
Hes a Douschebag. Theres no way he and Howard lederer didnt know what was going on. They literally robbed the poker community of millions of dollars and should absolutely be shunned for doing so. Hes a fucking scumbag and if I ever meet him I will make sure I tell him.
 
Hes a Douschebag. Theres no way he and Howard lederer didnt know what was going on. They literally robbed the poker community of millions of dollars and should absolutely be shunned for doing so. Hes a fucking scumbag and if I ever meet him I will make sure I tell him.

Before or after he takes your chips?
 
I never said he wasnt a good poker player.

I Just basically said that he is a scumbag and doesnt deserve to be forgiven.

More so.....I think he deserves to be reminded of the fact that hes a scumbag as often as possible.
 
I never said he wasnt a good poker player.

I Just basically said that he is a scumbag and doesnt deserve to be forgiven.

More so.....I think he deserves to be reminded of the fact that hes a scumbag as often as possible.
It’s not an unreasonable assumption. But it IS an assumption. We don’t know the truth. All I know is that truth and justice and government actions / court proceedings often ha e very little to do with one another.
The guy doesn’t strike me as a crook. His awkward apology this year was bizarre and didn’t lead me to believe anything about his involvement in the scam, one way or the other. So I dunno.

And even if he is a scumbag? Those of us who play in casinos and cardrooms play with scumbags on a regular basis. I don’t care, I just play cards.
 
Can someone explain what exactly Lederer and Ferguson did?
 
Millions in player deposits and funds were diverted to pay them large sums of money, instead of being held in escrow for cashouts -- essentially cheating the players out of their cash deposits and winnings. Even when it was discovered, they refused to give the money back.
 
Millions in player deposits and funds were diverted to pay them large sums of money, instead of being held in escrow for cashouts -- essentially cheating the players out of their cash deposits and winnings. Even when it was discovered, they refused to give the money back.

Can I ask, did they have ownership stakes in the company or were they just paid advertisements? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be an ass.
 
I thought they were co-founders and directors of the company
 
There is absolutely no way to defend their actions.

As directors, if they didn’t know what was happening they are at best stupid, ignorant, negligent assholes. More likely they knew what was happening and are therefore shady, thieving scumbag assholes.
 
I wonder if his reputation has helped him make all those recent cashes?
By that I mean, that if everybody at the table hates him there are bound to be alot of players that let
that affect their game.
I bet people are constantly trying to 'outplay' him by playing too many
hands and bluffing too much.
 
There is absolutely no way to defend their actions.

As directors, if they didn’t know what was happening they are at best stupid, ignorant, negligent assholes. More likely they knew what was happening and are therefore shady, thieving scumbag assholes.


Agreed.

And both of them are very intelligent. There is no way they didn't have any idea what was going on.
 
Not at all defending them but to say they knew what was going on might be a little presumptive. These are not mom and pop stores, look at all the scandals in business there is no way a CEO knows all the details let alone a board (which is probably closer to their “involvement”). I’m sure there was money coming in and looked great so didn’t bother to ask the questions, if they did they were fed a line by the person perpetuating the offense and trusted that person.

I will also say I never liked online poker.
 
Millions in player deposits and funds were diverted to pay them large sums of money, instead of being held in escrow for cashouts -- essentially cheating the players out of their cash deposits and winnings. Even when it was discovered, they refused to give the money back.
Yeah, I think that was essentially the government’s case. I think it’s important to mention that people were successfully prosecuted in this case, but those people were not Ferguson and Lederer.
Ferguson and aledderer were sued civilly by full tilt customers - there was a settlement there where only the lawyers won.
And though neither have said as much, I believe this is the position of Ferguson and Letterer - we got paid appropriately - Full Tilt got ripped off by somebody who wasn’t us.
 
My main issue with Ferguson has been his perpetual silence. I don't really care if he was 100% aware of the whole situation regarding the undercutting of player's funds. These guys were making loads of money and we got nothing in the way of explanation (maybe forgivable due to legal constraints) or apology until his awkward tone deaf video released earlier this summer. Nobody is blaming Ferguson for Black Friday, everyone is pissed that Full Tilt took player money and he didn't step forward to at least apologize or express any form of remorse.

No doubt he's a good player though. You're right, his run over the last couple of years has been pretty nuts.
 
There is no way Jesus and the Professor did not know the truth of where money was coming from or that customer deposits weren't segregated. Moreover, when they "found out" about this fact after Black Friday they did not even consider giving back any of their tens of millions that they outright stole. Both of these guys should never be allowed near a poker game again for the rest of their lives. Complete scum.
 
Can someone explain what exactly Lederer and Ferguson did?


Search around in Youtube there are plenty of videos talking about it. Basically the DOJ seized these sites (Poker Stars and Full Tilt). In the process of the sites being seized FT couldn't/wouldn't cover the amount they currently owed to players. For example, if you bought in for 1k and ran it up to 10k obviously FT owes you 10k.

At the time high stakes and mid stakes games were booming. There were plenty of people who played as professionals and people would have 100s of thousands of dollars on these sites. Obviously when DOJ seized the sites everyone wanted to withdraw their money and Full Tilt didn't deliver.

This whole thing is crazy to me and will probably make a good movie in a few years.
 
There is no way Jesus and the Professor did not know the truth of where money was coming from or that customer deposits weren't segregated. Moreover, when they "found out" about this fact after Black Friday they did not even consider giving back any of their tens of millions that they outright stole. Both of these guys should never be allowed near a poker game again for the rest of their lives. Complete scum.

It was unfortunate what happened but I just have a hard time believing there was any malicious intent on their part. They were running an insanely profitable business at the time.

They perhaps knew that the deposited players funds were being used for operations (advertising, paying salaries etc). While technically this is questionable in practice there is no way everyone would want to withdraw at the same time. If the DOJ didn't seize the FT domain I am pretty sure the poker boom would have carried on and we would all still love these guys and FT.

I agree they did a bad job of managing the situation after it happened. However, I don't believe they ever set out to steal or scam anyone.
 

Search around in Youtube there are plenty of videos talking about it. Basically the DOJ seized these sites (Poker Stars and Full Tilt). In the process of the sites being seized FT couldn't/wouldn't cover the amount they currently owed to players. For example, if you bought in for 1k and ran it up to 10k obviously FT owes you 10k.

At the time high stakes and mid stakes games were booming. There were plenty of people who played as professionals and people would have 100s of thousands of dollars on these sites. Obviously when DOJ seized the sites everyone wanted to withdraw their money and Full Tilt didn't deliver.

This whole thing is crazy to me and will probably make a good movie in a few years.

Right. I remember this. I just never knew the exact role Ferguson and Lederer played.
 
I sat directly to the left of Chris Ferguson in a $1500 WSOP event in 2008. He was extremely cool and likeable, and I was in complete awe of his poker prowess. I had no business being at that table, there were several bracelet winners there.
 
It was unfortunate what happened but I just have a hard time believing there was any malicious intent on their part. They were running an insanely profitable business at the time.

They perhaps knew that the deposited players funds were being used for operations (advertising, paying salaries etc). While technically this is questionable in practice there is no way everyone would want to withdraw at the same time. If the DOJ didn't seize the FT domain I am pretty sure the poker boom would have carried on and we would all still love these guys and FT.

I agree they did a bad job of managing the situation after it happened. However, I don't believe they ever set out to steal or scam anyone.
When you are a director of a company receiving millions of dollars, ignorance is not an excuse. To my mind that’s just as bad.
 

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