Chip Value Database (1 Viewer)

chkmte

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When I was a kid, I used to collect baseball cards. I remember opening up packages and packages of cards and immediately going to my latest Beckett price guide to see if I scored any good cards.

Anyway, I'm wondering if there is a similar magazine or online database that tries to give an approximate value on casino chips. Anyone care to chime in?

Tim
 
Anyway, I'm wondering if there is a similar magazine or online database that tries to give an approximate value on casino chips.

There is an annual that @David Spragg & co. produce called The Chip Rack. The 2016 annual is about to be released in a few weeks. They're currently taking pre-orders; with shipping, I think the cost is around $60.

As for an online db, no. As @TheSnake indicated, another member here is developing some type of db that tracks sold prices, however there's been some passionate debate over whether or not such a db or pricing tool would be generally useful for pricing chips; and there's no guarantee that he'll even make the db available for general public consumption/use.
 
I bought The Official U.S. Casino Chip Price Guide (Schiffer Book for Collectors).
It's official! The only comprehensive casino chip price guide in the field, featuring chips from the major gaming cities and riverboats in the U.S, is now in its bigger, better second edition! This attractive guide features an easy-to-use system that identifies and grades over 15,000 chips for rarity, condition, and price, complemented by color photos of more than $1,000,000 in rare chips, and nostagic postcard snapshots of dozens of casinos. Also new to this edition are thorough listings of Commemorative Limited Edition chips for Las Vegas and elsewhere. Professional advice on collecting and interesting insider information make this book your best resource for this fascinating hobby. Its convenient size and durable binding are ideal for the heavy use it will receive.
 
It would seem to me, it would need to be updated - almost monthly. No?
 
Wonder how many people are going to talk shit about David putting out, I mean selling, a catalog that has interesting information about chip condition, rarity, and *gasp* prices?

Seems kind of a double standard to not say a word about a print catalog produced by somebody that has almost exactly the same information (actually probably outdated info compared to a program that would track current sales (can catalogs do that yet, automatically update?)) that somebody else got flamed by a handful of people for, right? I mean to me it would sound like somebody who would take such a position of belittling one idea that might be superior but never mentioning another, possibly inferior, "catalog" could be considered pompous, clickish, or even an out right jerk off concerning said opinions and reactions, right? Maybe I'm wrong though, I've been wrong before, it was a Tuesday in late 1996 the last time if I remember right. ;)

Lol I love the internet.

Would love to see David's catalog though, I'm someone that has always thought something like that would be cool just for curiosity sake. Might have to order that....
 
FWIW, a annual print catalog and an purportedly real time Excel database are two different things. The former is used by hardcore individual chip collectors for single/rare chips, and the latter was being positioned as a real time guide for chip values for buying and selling purposes encompassing common chips and sets.

I think the former is inane but perhaps normal with this sort of hobby whereas the latter was a straight up capitalistic scheme that in some part preyed on the nativity of new hobbyists (at best).
 
No, its not that different at all.

Also I was on my phone and misspelled the word so bad that auto correct couldn't even help me. Appreciate the info, I definitely know the difference and still spelled it wrong, 99% of the time I get double letters wrong, put them where they shouldn't be and omit them where they should, it pisses me off and makes me wish I wrote more to be better at it. I'll go up and correct it, it seems to bother you and I don't want you worrying. Plus, with that one misspelled word (hope there's not more :sick: ) I understand that it completely invalidates my point. Sucks, I thought I made a good one. ;)
 
So, at the risk of fanning the flames between you gentlemen...allow me to expound on my inquiry.

Today, a couple racks of Casino De Mexico chips were posted to eBay. The price looked pretty good.

I did some checking and found that 50 similar chips were sold (on eBay) for over $2/per. However, late last year those chips were sold (on PCF) for less than $1/per.

Being analytical and somewhat "capitalistic", I would love to see a chart or hi/low range of sales. That's all. Having that data would allow me to better approach my chip game.

That being said, I don't think an annual catalog could give me the information I'm seeking.
 
My chip guide is called Dave. :D

About The Chip Rack, it is more for the type of chip hobbyist who collects and sells single chips.
I bought mine in 2012 and for single chip buying purposes it is great and has paid for itself multiple times over.

It won't be as helpful if trying to determine correct pricing for a rack of chips.
For that you'll have to search sold ads here and sold listings on eBay.

For those that have never seen The Chip Rack, here's an example of it's use: there's a $35 buy it now on eBay for 10x $1 Sundance chips.

In the Chip Rack these ones are #N2238.
(House mold, 3-orange, 3-fuschia inserts)
2nd line is value code=B
Bottom of page says B=$3-$4 as singles.
Recent eBay sold listings show sales at $2.25, 3.xx, 4.xx, 5.xx
So this value is pretty spot on for singles.
But then there's one lot of 40 that sold for $50. Obviously larger the lot, less per chip you should expect to get/pay.
 

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My posts always come off so much harsher than I'm picturing saying them, there are no flames to fan, embers of disagreement for sure but I type like I talk to my buddies and I try to be the same person online that I am in real life. I have no problem debating or calling bullshit if I seem it irl but I would also do it in a 3/4 serious light hearted way, that's how I picture saying things when I type.

Anyway, I definitely disagreed then and now with the sentiment that what was being worked was worthless and actually detrimental to the "hobby" of poker chips. Of course you couldn't use it as a hard line guide, we all know that; the chips I recently sold privately wouldn't show up anywhere and the ones that I did put up on the site probably sold for a little to a little more than a little under value because I sold them at what I bought them for. But, and I think this is the big but, I do think it would be very interesting and also somewhat helpful to know when and where chips have sold for how much and in what condition. Even for pure chip geekiness and something else to read on the internet about poker chips I think it's a good idea, if it can give someone an idea of what kind of chips are selling for what then maybe it saves someone from getting ripped off and all the better. Pretty sure there was just a thread about someone paying a liiiiitle to much for a barrel of chips on eBay, maybe something like what was being discussed could have helped them? I don't know, but you have to count it as a maybe.

There was a member that was working on a program that would scrape data from chip sales and organize it into what chip was sold where for how much in what condition... That's what I am referring to in my original comments. The idea was met with passionate ideas on both sides, and I honestly think the member who was working on it was misunderstood in his intentions with the "tool" leading to at least some of the backlash. I, as I said before, would fall on the side that that would be a cool thing, others not so much, and not much has been said of the pricing tool since. Well, unless you count the references to it negatively in other threads and places that pop up every once in a while. ;)

So anyway, the answer to your question is it has been brought up before and so far nothing has ever materialized, some people think that's a good thing, others don't care, and I just think people should quit acting like dick heads to other people when in reality both people are probably not dickheads and just like poker and poker chips.
 
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My chip guide is called Dave. :D

About The Chip Rack, it is more for the type of chip hobbyist who collects and sells single chips.
I bought mine in 2012 and for single chip buying purposes it is great and has paid for itself multiple times over.

It won't be as helpful if trying to determine correct pricing for a rack of chips.
For that you'll have to search sold ads here and sold listings on eBay.

For those that have never seen The Chip Rack, here's an example of it's use: there's a $35 buy it now on eBay for 10x $1 Sundance chips.

In the Chip Rack these ones are #N2238.
(House mold, 3-orange, 3-fuschia inserts)
2nd line is value code=B
Bottom of page says B=$3-$4 as singles.
Recent eBay sold listings show sales at $2.25, 3.xx, 4.xx, 5.xx
So this value is pretty spot on for singles.
But then there's one lot of 40 that sold for $50. Obviously larger the lot, less per chip you should expect to get/pay.

That's pretty cool and I think I am going to order it just to "have". I do not collect single chips outside of ones I think are cool or casinos I have played at, my passion is in lots and lots of the most beautiful chips I can find. Be it CPCs, Paulsons, TRKs, or Milanos (@BGinGA ;) ) I want a lot more than one. I can see why people do it though, it's very cool to have a rare chip, and before I found this site I was convinced I was a baller with my dice chips so, you know, things could always change. lol
 
I don't understand why anyone would think less information is helpful.

I honestly don't remember the exact arguments against, but it had to do with the fact that a hard line value could be artificially assigned but do to many other factors that we all know as chip "junkies" it could be way off. It could be used to either "degrade" a price of a deserving chip (like maybe starbursts selling here in the public at PCF friendly prices and somebody then thinking mint yellow starburst should be $135 or whatever a rack somewhere else where somebody might be fairly asking $175) or make somebody think their rack of chips is worth $350 because they saw a single sell 6 months ago for $3.50.

I'm probably butchering the argument, there is a thread on here that you can find and read. I will say that the people who are against it are not stupid and are reputable and knowledgeable members of the poker chip community so there is probably something to their argument, I doubt it's all wrong. Read the thread and decide for yourself. My position is still A. I think it would be a cool thing, and B. some people got the wrong impression and personalities grated leading to way more backlash than was deserved.
 
I don't understand why anyone would think less information is helpful.

To elaborate on 12thMan's response, I think there were a lot of things happening in regards to this database. For one, it was being developed by a member as kind of a hobby. No One really understood what it was, where the data was coming from, or how it could be used. It may be cool in concept, but unless you really understand how it works it's pretty worthless. My self developed pricing tool says all of my chips are worth a million dollars...

Secondly, The developer of this tool on a couple of occasions chimed into peoples WTS ads to offer advice on what they should be listing their chips for. Helpful or not, this led to some debate as to proper protocol, and I think the developer took offense and kind of backed off of development/use of his concept.

I believe the data could be useful if its 100% up to date and unbiased, but I just don't believe that a single person can keep up with everything effectively. If you stay in the hobby you will see huge swings in prices. One day the Chip Room is selling New Paulsons for .50 each, then they hit eBay at slightly higher prices. Then certain denominations spike at several dollars per chip, then the recession hits and nobody can sell chips for more than .80 each, then a new whale comes along looking for a specific set, and he's willing to pay $5000 for it.... Just too much subjectivity to track.
 
I want to chat with this member about their database. I want to help them tackle this challenge. Someone hook us up.
 
I don't understand why anyone would think less information is helpful.

Your question is fair and reasonable. Humor me as I offer my thoughts.

TL; DR - Given the nature of our segment of the hobby and the market therein, a realtime price "guide" isn't feasible. As nothing more than a sales price history, the data would be interesting and harmless. Any real-time or recent sales history tool would ultimately be used by folks improperly - and to someone's financial harm - as a price "guide", no matter how innocently, transparently, and benignly the data was made available.

For sports cards (and, at one time, collectible card games), you have your monthly Beckett publications. These pubs are generally meant for the trading of recently released products, and typically had hundreds, if not thousands, of data points it could pull from to track general price swings. This was a national publication and therefore couldn't adjust to regional demand - a Barry Sanders rookie card would have sold for more in Detroit than elsewhere since that's where he played - but it was a good baseline indicator. Shops could then apply whatever fudge factor they deemed applicable, but since there were quite a few data points to pull from and it had been in the gig for decades, that's what people generally accepted as accurate.

For older, rarer, or lesser-traded cards, Beckett put out their annual almanac/price guide. That's what The Chip Rack would equate to. These rarities aren't as susceptible to the frequent price swings as the newer releases are because those who want them generally already have them, and their career stats are set. There's also not as many price points available, so it makes sense that there's only an annual publication for these items.

Sports cards today don't trade like they used to...but collectible game cards do, and are arguably traded in significantly higher quantities than sports cards ever were. You've got multiple online pricing tools available at the ready for these items...tcgplayer.com, mtgprice.com, mtgfinance, etc. Again, these don't reflect regional pricing - I know for a fact that, for various reasons, singles trade in AZ slightly lower than they do on the eastern seaboard - but local shops will choose whatever guide they deem most useful for them and apply whatever fudge factor they want to make it regionally appropriate.

There's far, far fewer single chips traded than cards, though, and even fewer traders are savvy enough to use/compile/produce any kind of trading stats or pricing. Furthermore, most of the singles that are traded are older/rarer, and many times those that want them, have them. Many, many chip listings go unsold on eBay and are just relisted after 30 days. An annual price guide makes sense for these chips, and thus The Chip Rack. Still, just as with the other items, folks simply use that as a guide; typically chips are sold below the listed price as sellers apply whatever fudge factor they deem appropriate.

So where do chip *sets* fall? Particularly modern sets? In that regard, we're kinda the weirdos. The closest corollary we have to sports/trading cards I can think of would be back in the mid-80's to early 90's when many dealers traded recently-printed, in-demand cards in lots of 50 or more. That's done somewhat today in Magic, but not nearly like it was back then, and not nearly like we as chippers do today (where, for us, it's the primary, and nearly exclusive, manner of swapping chips). There was never a real guide for these card lots. Generally lots were sold at a 20% discount from Beckett as long as you were buying at least 50 - and more typically 100 - at a time, but the bulk discount fluctuated wildly from 5% to 50%. Furthermore, there's so many varieties of chips available, multiple purposes, and no standard definition of a "set" - we deal in odd lots of odd lots. And while we nearly exclusively deal in bulk in our world, the data points for most chips are still sparse from month to month, and can fluctuate WILDLY from week to week for various reasons. There's also no consistent or standard grading scale for chip sets which further muddies the waters.

(Note: There is a guide or scale for individual chips, but even that differs from what most of us have used with other collectibles in the past, particularly those standards used for collectible cards.)

So, to your question - how is more information a bad thing? Well, it's not inherently bad at all. Information is simply information. Some of the challenges of a proposed pricing tool are what that information is being used for, how it's used, how accurate/recent/comprehensive it is, and how available it is.

I'll offer two hypotheticals.

Scenario 1: Assume someone has some Stardust Poker Mansion chips they want to sell and sees that they sell for, on average, about $2.00/chip, allowing for a reasonable cash set breakdown. But what they don't see is that someone just released a hoard of chips but needs a fair amount of short-printed $25 chips to make the most of their hoard. That drives the price of the $25's skyward, but slightly depresses the rest of the chips. If the seller had any type of significant amount of $25's and didn't know all the information, they could potentially be losing out on a big chunk of change.

Scenario 2: Assume someone sees some WTH&C chips at $2.25/chip, and that the pricing tool shows they've been selling at $2.40-$3.00 per chip recently. That $2.25 seems like a good price, so they strike. But what they didn't know is Paulson decided to do an annual or one-time run of home chips at $1.75/chip. They just overpaid a fair amount.

These are clearly what-if scenarios with figures pulled out of my ass and their future likelihood is speculative at best, but they are well within the realm of possibility. In both scenarios it was a situation of a little knowledge being a bad thing if they weren't clued into the full chipping scene.

My personal opinion is that pricing database isn't inherently bad, and could have some merit if it's regularly and (mostly) comprehensively updated. There's so many deals that occur outside of the public purview, though, that it's validity as a real-time price "guide" at any given time for any given set would be questionable due to limited data points. It could also be manipulated relatively easily via collusion, or even by the curator/developer, and far more easily than a Beckett or a tcgplayer.com price guide could. Furthermore, if I understand correctly, the developer does *not* intend for it to be used as a price "guide", but simply historical information. I do believe his intentions are transparent and benign. I also believe that even with the best intentions, and a statement of intended purpose plastered all over every page of that database/tool, people - particularly newer folk - would still improperly use it as a guide simply because there's nothing else available.

(Note: I'm not accusing - nor even trying to imply - that anyone has or would do something unseemly re: pricing. This community and its transactions is largely built on trust and reputation. I'm simply pointing out that it's *possible* to manipulate prices in any sales history database/price guide just as it is with the collectible card world.)
 
FWIW, a annual print catalog and an purportedly real time Excel database are two different things. The former is used by hardcore individual chip collectors for single/rare chips, and the latter was being positioned as a real time guide for chip values for buying and selling purposes encompassing common chips and sets.

I think the former is inane but perhaps normal with this sort of hobby whereas the latter was a straight up capitalistic scheme that in some part preyed on the nativity of new hobbyists (at best).

I figured I'd help you out, while you're 'helping' others.

... 'an' annual print catalog... not 'a' annual print catalog
... 'a' purportedly real time... not 'an' purportedly real time
... 'naivete' of new hobbyists... not 'nativity' of new hobbyists
 
So, at the risk of fanning the flames between you gentlemen...allow me to expound on my inquiry.

Today, a couple racks of Casino De Mexico chips were posted to eBay. The price looked pretty good.

I did some checking and found that 50 similar chips were sold (on eBay) for over $2/per. However, late last year those chips were sold (on PCF) for less than $1/per.

Being analytical and somewhat "capitalistic", I would love to see a chart or hi/low range of sales. That's all. Having that data would allow me to better approach my chip game.

That being said, I don't think an annual catalog could give me the information I'm seeking.

Hence, my project :)

I'll PM you the details later. I have final exams this week at school, so I'll be crazy busy until Thursday. But I'm basically building out exactly what you're describing.
 
Your question is fair and reasonable. Humor me as I offer my thoughts.

TL; DR - Given the nature of our segment of the hobby and the market therein, a realtime price "guide" isn't feasible. As nothing more than a sales price history, the data would be interesting and harmless. Any real-time or recent sales history tool would ultimately be used by folks improperly - and to someone's financial harm - as a price "guide", no matter how innocently, transparently, and benignly the data was made available.

For sports cards (and, at one time, collectible card games), you have your monthly Beckett publications. These pubs are generally meant for the trading of recently released products, and typically had hundreds, if not thousands, of data points it could pull from to track general price swings. This was a national publication and therefore couldn't adjust to regional demand - a Barry Sanders rookie card would have sold for more in Detroit than elsewhere since that's where he played - but it was a good baseline indicator. Shops could then apply whatever fudge factor they deemed applicable, but since there were quite a few data points to pull from and it had been in the gig for decades, that's what people generally accepted as accurate.

For older, rarer, or lesser-traded cards, Beckett put out their annual almanac/price guide. That's what The Chip Rack would equate to. These rarities aren't as susceptible to the frequent price swings as the newer releases are because those who want them generally already have them, and their career stats are set. There's also not as many price points available, so it makes sense that there's only an annual publication for these items.

Sports cards today don't trade like they used to...but collectible game cards do, and are arguably traded in significantly higher quantities than sports cards ever were. You've got multiple online pricing tools available at the ready for these items...tcgplayer.com, mtgprice.com, mtgfinance, etc. Again, these don't reflect regional pricing - I know for a fact that, for various reasons, singles trade in AZ slightly lower than they do on the eastern seaboard - but local shops will choose whatever guide they deem most useful for them and apply whatever fudge factor they want to make it regionally appropriate.

There's far, far fewer single chips traded than cards, though, and even fewer traders are savvy enough to use/compile/produce any kind of trading stats or pricing. Furthermore, most of the singles that are traded are older/rarer, and many times those that want them, have them. Many, many chip listings go unsold on eBay and are just relisted after 30 days. An annual price guide makes sense for these chips, and thus The Chip Rack. Still, just as with the other items, folks simply use that as a guide; typically chips are sold below the listed price as sellers apply whatever fudge factor they deem appropriate.

So where do chip *sets* fall? Particularly modern sets? In that regard, we're kinda the weirdos. The closest corollary we have to sports/trading cards I can think of would be back in the mid-80's to early 90's when many dealers traded recently-printed, in-demand cards in lots of 50 or more. That's done somewhat today in Magic, but not nearly like it was back then, and not nearly like we as chippers do today (where, for us, it's the primary, and nearly exclusive, manner of swapping chips). There was never a real guide for these card lots. Generally lots were sold at a 20% discount from Beckett as long as you were buying at least 50 - and more typically 100 - at a time, but the bulk discount fluctuated wildly from 5% to 50%. Furthermore, there's so many varieties of chips available, multiple purposes, and no standard definition of a "set" - we deal in odd lots of odd lots. And while we nearly exclusively deal in bulk in our world, the data points for most chips are still sparse from month to month, and can fluctuate WILDLY from week to week for various reasons. There's also no consistent or standard grading scale for chip sets which further muddies the waters.

(Note: There is a guide or scale for individual chips, but even that differs from what most of us have used with other collectibles in the past, particularly those standards used for collectible cards.)

So, to your question - how is more information a bad thing? Well, it's not inherently bad at all. Information is simply information. Some of the challenges of a proposed pricing tool are what that information is being used for, how it's used, how accurate/recent/comprehensive it is, and how available it is.

I'll offer two hypotheticals.

Scenario 1: Assume someone has some Stardust Poker Mansion chips they want to sell and sees that they sell for, on average, about $2.00/chip, allowing for a reasonable cash set breakdown. But what they don't see is that someone just released a hoard of chips but needs a fair amount of short-printed $25 chips to make the most of their hoard. That drives the price of the $25's skyward, but slightly depresses the rest of the chips. If the seller had any type of significant amount of $25's and didn't know all the information, they could potentially be losing out on a big chunk of change.

Scenario 2: Assume someone sees some WTH&C chips at $2.25/chip, and that the pricing tool shows they've been selling at $2.40-$3.00 per chip recently. That $2.25 seems like a good price, so they strike. But what they didn't know is Paulson decided to do an annual or one-time run of home chips at $1.75/chip. They just overpaid a fair amount.

These are clearly what-if scenarios with figures pulled out of my ass and their future likelihood is speculative at best, but they are well within the realm of possibility. In both scenarios it was a situation of a little knowledge being a bad thing if they weren't clued into the full chipping scene.

My personal opinion is that pricing database isn't inherently bad, and could have some merit if it's regularly and (mostly) comprehensively updated. There's so many deals that occur outside of the public purview, though, that it's validity as a real-time price "guide" at any given time for any given set would be questionable due to limited data points. It could also be manipulated relatively easily via collusion, or even by the curator/developer, and far more easily than a Beckett or a tcgplayer.com price guide could. Furthermore, if I understand correctly, the developer does *not* intend for it to be used as a price "guide", but simply historical information. I do believe his intentions are transparent and benign. I also believe that even with the best intentions, and a statement of intended purpose plastered all over every page of that database/tool, people - particularly newer folk - would still improperly use it as a guide simply because there's nothing else available.

(Note: I'm not accusing - nor even trying to imply - that anyone has or would do something unseemly re: pricing. This community and its transactions is largely built on trust and reputation. I'm simply pointing out that it's *possible* to manipulate prices in any sales history database/price guide just as it is with the collectible card world.)

Definitely tl;dr but I read anyway since I'm playing live NLHE (AKA who's best at being bored according to @iBetOnEverything). Sounds like a solid analogy.
 

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