Cheating with shuffle machines? (3 Viewers)

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I don't know very much about shuffle machines but just saw this video from Joey Ingram. The way he explains it sounds like a lot of coincidence but given two particular players always win with the shuffle machines in play seems pretty suspect. Anyone know more about the topic that can elaborate on how they would cheat with shuffle machines?

The machines they were using are the Shuffle Deck 2.

 
The deckmate shufflers that casinos use can actually read the cards and stack the deck. I think they’d have to be hacked and reprogrammed to stack the deck for cheating purposes, but they have the technology built in, from what I’ve read.
 
Yep, the Gen 2 deckmates are highly sus because the technology designed for checking and organizing decks can be hacked for old fashioned set ups. I would not play in a home game with a Gen 2 deckmate.
My understanding of the deckmate 2 is that 1) they’re generally leased only (not actually for sale) and 2) when you do find one for sale, you’re probably looking at a 5 digit price tag?
So it’s unlikely that you’ll run into a deckmate 2 at a home game. But if you do, yeah, either that guy just likes expensive toys, or yeah, he’s made an investment for a reason.
But for the purposes of TEXAS poker, which is apparently unregulated, yeah, those clubs are all effectively home games, right?
 
Right, poker clubs here are considered social clubs where you rent a chair essentially and pay membership fees to play but not regulated by a gaming commission.
 
I'll say this about the shufflers. I won't go near a black jack table that uses them. Not for the obvious reason of keeping a reasonable score of what left in the chute but the fact that I've never seen so many 14's and 15's in any given sitting. Do I think the house manipulates the deck? Fuck yes. Why would anybody expect they wouldn't?
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the same was happening at all table games. Let it Ride is another notoriously funny game where all the players seemingly share cards every hand.
 
My understanding of the deckmate 2 is that 1) they’re generally leased only (not actually for sale) and 2) when you do find one for sale, you’re probably looking at a 5 digit price tag?
So it’s unlikely that you’ll run into a deckmate 2 at a home game. But if you do, yeah, either that guy just likes expensive toys, or yeah, he’s made an investment for a reason.
But for the purposes of TEXAS poker, which is apparently unregulated, yeah, those clubs are all effectively home games, right?
I promise you lots more home games than you think have these. Esp ones that charge rake. In big cities home games have massive rakes. I’ve heard NY has a lot of uncapped takes or silly $25 maxes. I think LA might be similar. More hands per hour equals payoff in no time. @Windwalker had a cheating incident happen to him a year or two ago which might have been deckmate related. He could also probably chime in on how common these machines are on the home game scene in LA. I’m guessing very prevalent.
 
I've seen video of the deckmates spit out packs, and you can plug in the number of seats and it will tell you the seat with the best hand. I don't recall the video
 
I promise you lots more home games than you think have these. Esp ones that charge rake. In big cities home games have massive rakes. I’ve heard NY has a lot of uncapped takes or silly $25 maxes. I think LA might be similar. More hands per hour equals payoff in no time. @Windwalker had a cheating incident happen to him a year or two ago which might have been deckmate related. He could also probably chime in on how common these machines are on the home game scene in LA. I’m guessing very prevalent.
Good to know. I remember windwalker’s story. I guess I don’t even think about those nosebleed stakes - I would hope those guys wouldn’t rely on speculation from a nickel and dimer like me.
 
Going to stay out of the debate @Forty4. As a player who spent several years playing in casinos before the arrival of the deckmate #2s, all I can say is that I’ve seen a difference in the “action” created amongst hands dealt when a dealer hand shuffles vs it being done by a deckmate #2.
I WILL NOT ever play cards in a casino that uses these specific shufflers for many of the reasons mentioned in other posts. People want to argue with you and say your not being cheated but you really can’t prove that you aren’t.
A lot can be done when you introduce technology into anything. My theory is the casinos use the machines to create MAXIMUM RAKE and maximum hands per hour.
The bigger the pots, the more rake that is usually pulled in per hand.
Also, if the machine can read the cards and put the deck in a set order, why couldn’t it choose a seat to deal more winning hands to?
Anyways, I‘ve spent enough time playing pre deckmate#2 and after to see the difference with my own eyes.
Call me crazy, a conspiracy theorist or what ever you like, DON’T CARE! You will never see me sitting at a table that is deckmate#2 shuffled and dealt.
 
What shuffle machines are most Vegas casinos using?
Not sure these days, haven’t been to Vegas since 2016. Pre Deckmate #2 and original Deckmate, most of the casinos in Atlantic City were using a machine called “Shufflemaster” I believe.
With those machines, I didn’t notice much difference in the “hand manipulation” as I’ve noticed with DM2s. It just allowed more hands per hour.
With the introduction of DM2s and the connection of literally everything to the table from your players card to the info being fed back to the Bravo app on your phone, I just don’t trust that the game isn’t manipulated to a degree to work in the casinos favor.
You’ll never convince me otherwise. Poker has always been a drag profit wise on casinos compared to slot machines and most other games. I think the technology has at least helped them gain a better margin from the card rooms.
Almost every hand dealt involving a DM2 creates what I like to call a set up hand, the made hands hit on the flop but always give several drawing hand opportunities.
You’ll almost never see a K 8 2 rainbow flop ever on a DM2 Shuffled and dealt table.
Go to a casino and watch for an hour sometime, then sit in a hand shuffled and dealt game and observe.
I think you’ll be amazed at what you notice cause you never paid attention to to it before.
Yes I’m a fool and an idiot and I do respect your opinion to think so. ;)
Enjoy that DM2 dealt game you may be sitting at.
 
Going to stay out of the debate @Forty4. As a player who spent several years playing in casinos before the arrival of the deckmate #2s, all I can say is that I’ve seen a difference in the “action” created amongst hands dealt when a dealer hand shuffles vs it being done by a deckmate #2.
I WILL NOT ever play cards in a casino that uses these specific shufflers for many of the reasons mentioned in other posts. People want to argue with you and say your not being cheated but you really can’t prove that you aren’t.
A lot can be done when you introduce technology into anything. My theory is the casinos use the machines to create MAXIMUM RAKE and maximum hands per hour.
The bigger the pots, the more rake that is usually pulled in per hand.
Also, if the machine can read the cards and put the deck in a set order, why couldn’t it choose a seat to deal more winning hands to?
Anyways, I‘ve spent enough time playing pre deckmate#2 and after to see the difference with my own eyes.
Call me crazy, a conspiracy theorist or what ever you like, DON’T CARE! You will never see me sitting at a table that is deckmate#2 shuffled and dealt.

Uh oh @BigSlick4523 got to someone lol ;-)
 
Uh oh @BigSlick4523 got to someone lol ;-)
Please, for the love of God:

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I honestly never really paid attention to if the casino used shuffle machines for poker or blackjack or any other table game. Most games in Texas are hand dealt at the poker clubs so I guess I'm fortunate. Last time I played poker in the casino was MGM National Harbor back in 2018.

I'll be more aware now that this topic has come up, but don't play much poker in Vegas as I'm too busy being drunk and hanging out lol
 
As I see it, auto shuffler security is mostly a function of how good the gaming commission regulating the game is. So vegas should be fine. Underground home game not so much. Cancun with their angling stickmen not so much. And unregulated Texas…not so much, which I think why Papi may have released such a bizarre speculative video. Also the hustle requires a mechanic to cut precisely, so there are a few involved.

But as to Papi’s video, it didn’t make sense to me. If they rigged the shuffler why do they need an action player to lose a lot of money? That just makes the other winners need to win more and that hurts the scheme. Something foul may be happening but that doesn’t make sense.
 
I honestly never really paid attention to if the casino used shuffle machines for poker or blackjack or any other table game. Most games in Texas are hand dealt at the poker clubs so I guess I'm fortunate. Last time I played poker in the casino was MGM National Harbor back in 2018.

I'll be more aware now that this topic has come up, but don't play much poker in Vegas as I'm too busy being drunk and hanging out lol
Last hand of poker I played in a casino was at MGM NH.
I won a 3 way all in pot in a $1/$3 NLHM game for about $1100.
My pocket QQs vs P-JJs vs P-10s.
The flop Q J 10. The turn 9 and the river was a 6. I fully expected a three way chop after that horrible turn card but it all worked out.
MGM NH loves their DM2s. ;)

If you want to play “profitable” poker for the long term, game selection, even over skill, is your greatest ally.
 
Why would you even invoke his name?!? WHY?!?!?!
It doesn’t really matter. I’m sure whoever this person is is absolutely the most knowledgeable, most experienced and most enlightened individual on the planet at what ever it is that they touch or do and I’m very happy for them.

As I tell many, I base my opinions on my experiences and I’m open minded enough to be shown another way or proven wrong. I was just sharing my opinion on DM2s, if you can change my opinion, go for it.

Till then, if we ever sling cards together, it will be at a non DM2 installed table. You fellas enjoy your afternoon. ;)
 
It doesn’t really matter. I’m sure whoever this person is is absolutely the most knowledgeable, most experienced and most enlightened individual on the planet at what ever it is that they touch or do and I’m very happy for them.

As I tell many, I base my opinions on my experiences and I’m open minded enough to be shown another way or proven wrong. I was just sharing my opinion on DM2s, if you can change my opinion, go for it.

Till then, if we ever sling cards together, it will be at a non DM2 installed table. You fellas enjoy your afternoon. ;)
If you knew, you'd understand.
 
He injects so weird gematria codes or some other weird conspiracy stuff into every thread he posts in. Inviting him is dooming the thread to stupefying rabbit hole of tin foil hats.
Sounds like an interesting guy. :unsure: Well I need exactly 12 Nevada Lodge blurple $25s to complete my rack.
Maybe he knows where the hole in the dessert that Lincoln Fitzgerald dug and threw them in is, that would be some great knowledge for me to have.

I’ll also be at Degan in Dallas in August splashing pots, smoking fine cigars and drinking excellent Margaritas and fine spirits. Maybe we could discuss going to Mars then? I enjoy an interesting perspective from interesting Individuals. :cool
 
Sounds like an interesting guy. :unsure: Well I need exactly 12 Nevada Lodge blurple $25s to complete my rack.
Maybe he knows where the hole in the dessert that Lincoln Fitzgerald dug and threw them in is, that would be some great knowledge for me to have.

I’ll also be at Degan in Dallas in August splashing pots, smoking fine cigars and drinking excellent Margaritas and fine spirits. Maybe we could discuss going to Mars then? I enjoy an interesting perspective from interesting Individuals. :cool
He’ll give you the code after the chips are found by someone else and ask you why you didn’t know. And trust me. You’ll be over it after 7 seconds. True believers are not going to entertain you.
 
Right, poker clubs here are considered social clubs where you rent a chair essentially and pay membership fees to play but not regulated by a gaming commission.
I'm assuming this is why a lot of vloggers play/film in Texas? Some casinos tend to restrict filming hands but I see a lot of Texas poker rooms on YouTube.
 

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