Casino Mathematics : Reverse Engineering a Local Promotion (1 Viewer)

chkmte

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The following is my interpretation of an upcoming local casino promotion. If you find an error, omission or other obvious mistake, please do let me know. I feel pretty confident the marketing department didn't think this one through.

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Beginning at 10:00 on October 27, patrons may earn raffle entries for the *** promotion on each table game as follows:

* a natural on Blackjack
* a winning Hardway bet on Craps
* a winning straight-up bet on Roulette
* a hand with Jacks or better on Mississippi Stud
* a hand that receives an Ante Bonus on Three Card Poker
* a hand with a straight or better on Ultimate Texas Hold 'em

Throughout the day, entries will be collected by table games supervisors and placed in a large raffle drum. Every hour, five (5) entries will be drawn (18:30, 19:30, 20:30, 21:30 and 22:30). One (1) 'grand-prize' entry will be drawn at 23:30.

A patron whose entry is drawn from 18:30 to 22:30 will randomly select one of thirty-six (1 of 36) envelopes containing a pre-determined amount of cash. The patron whose entry is drawn at 23:30 will collect the six (6) remaining envelopes.

As I understand, a patron is not limited to one winning entry.

There are fourteen (14) envelopes containing $100; eleven (11) containing $150; six (6) containing $250; four (4) containing $500; and one (1) containing $1,000. A total of $7,550 will be awarded.

Envelopes contain an average prize of $209.72.

So, obtaining an entry for less than the average prize amount should be considered a 'good bet' even when there is no guarantee it will be selected.

For example:
If there were only thirty-six (36) entries, each entry would be worth $209.72 as each be a guaranteed winner ( 7550 / 36 = $209.72 ). Should there be thirty-seven (37) entries, each entry would be worth $204.05. At one-hundred (100) entries, each entry would be worth $75.50, etc.

Keep in mind, the minimum wager on each of these games will be five-dollars ($5). Therefore, a five-dollar blackjack which is already being paid three-to-two will also earn the patron an entry valued at (x). Even if there were seven-thousand-five-hundred-and-fifty (7,550) entries, this would put the monetary value of each entry at $1. On the above-referenced five-dollar blackjack, the patron is receiving a twenty-percent bonus - so to speak. That's incredible.

While every table game will offer this 'bonus', only one of them can and should be expolited during this promotion.

By simply placing a one-dollar ($1) wager on every single number (0, 00 and 1 through 36), the patron is guaranteed to earn an entry on each spin. The downside being that doing so will result in a two-dollar ($2) loss per spin. Still, a nominal fee to earn an entry.

In other words, there would need to be three-thousand-seven-hundred-and-seventy-six entries for this approach to have negative expected value. Based on previous like promotions, there will probably be a "few hundred", perhaps three-hundred (300) entries.

Should a patron be able to collect even one-hundred (100) entries throughout the day, they would give themselves a one-in-four chance at positive expectation. More likely, they will be selected six-to-seven times throughout the promotion.

Using the numbers referenced above, a patron with twenty-five percent (25%) of the entries at a cost of two-dollars ($2) each would expect to net eleven-hundred-sixty-three dollars ($1,163.18).

**(26 / 4) x ($209.72) - ($200) = $1,162.18**

The only forseeable, yet improbable risk is that the casino staff 'catch-on' to a patron gaming the promotion and either close the game and/or ask them to leave. However, given the fact that the patron is indeed losing every spin without a guarantee of their entry being selected, either scenario seems extremely unlikely. There is also little to no chance for the casino to change the promotion rules mid-contest.

Am I missing something? ...and no, I don't believe any other patron(s) will understand the advantageous situation before them.
 
The casino is giving away $7500 extra that day, hoping extra gaming occurs to get them the 7500 I suppose. Every extra $5 blackjack hand earns them 20 cents, every extra $1 craps hardway bet earns them 14 cents, etc. If they don't get enough extra action, and if there will truly be that small amount of entries, you can indeed go to the casino that day with +EV, which is -EV for them and they should have done better math. That, or they know it is -EV for them in the short run but also +EV in the long run due to other factors.
 
The only forseeable, yet improbable risk is that the casino staff 'catch-on' to a patron gaming the promotion and either close the game and/or ask them to leave.
My guess is they will catch on VERY quick on roulette and shut you down... not hard to figure it out when they have to give you a raffle entry after every spin. Unless you table hop repeating this behavior they won't boot you or anything like that but you'll be informed your manner of play is not allowed.
 
The casino is giving away $7500 extra that day, hoping extra gaming occurs to get them the 7500 I suppose. Every extra $5 blackjack hand earns them 20 cents, every extra $1 craps hardway bet earns them 14 cents, etc. If they don't get enough extra action, and if there will truly be that small amount of entries, you can indeed go to the casino that day with +EV, which is -EV for them and they should have done better math. That, or they know it is -EV for them in the short run but also +EV in the long run due to other factors.
Based on my experience, I'd find it hard to believe the marketing dept. thought so deep.

Yeah, it's a small casino so I don't expect too many entries.
 
My guess is they will catch on VERY quick on roulette and shut you down... not hard to figure it out when they have to give you a raffle entry after every spin. Unless you table hop repeating this behavior they won't boot you or anything like that but you'll be informed your manner of play is not allowed.
Based on this scale of this promotion, I'm guessing they have one wheel. Maybe 2. So table hopping isn't a thing. But hell, you can sit there for the afternoon putting out 10 single number bets on every spin. Plenty of people play like that.
 
My guess is they will catch on VERY quick on roulette and shut you down... not hard to figure it out when they have to give you a raffle entry after every spin. Unless you table hop repeating this behavior they won't boot you or anything like that but you'll be informed your manner of play is not allowed.
You might be right...but the State of Kansas owns the games, so I'm not sure they can legally kick you off the game because they don't like your style. It's an interesting debate.
 
Based on this scale of this promotion, I'm guessing they have one wheel. Maybe 2. So table hopping isn't a thing. But hell, you can sit there for the afternoon putting out 10 single number bets on every spin. Plenty of people play like that.
Yeah, 2 tables but during the day only one open.
 
You under estimate how fast the other players will catch on. This will happen almost instantly if Hero covers the 36 numbers every spin. Same thing with the house - they aren't blind and dumb.

Don't do it like that. Make it a "gamble" as suggested above and bet six or twelve numbers each spin.

The idea is good in theory, just needs a tweak or two to make it work out.
 
You under estimate how fast the other players will catch on. This will happen almost instantly if Hero covers the 36 numbers every spin. Same thing with the house - they aren't blind and dumb.

Don't do it like that. Make it a "gamble" as suggested above and bet six or twelve numbers each spin.

The idea is good in theory, just needs a tweak or two to make it work out.
You may be right. Still, losing more money and receiving less tickets kinda cools off my little scheme in a hurry.
 
Just to clarify:
  • Winning a table game earns you 1 entry.
  • All entries are put in a drum.
  • 5 entries are drawn, each winning $209.72 (on average).
  • all remaining entries remain in the drum.
So how many entries occur in an hour, and throughout the day? That's where the challenge occurs. You assume you are "winning" (buying) 25% of the entries, but that seems unlikely at best, over 6 games x the number of tables running those games, x the number of players playing each of those games.

And if the casino caught on, who would care. If I'm a pit boss and someone asked why is chkmte playing every number? I'd happily tell them about the promotion. Maybe they will all bet every number, and the take on my tables are far greater than ever before.

The casino figures "We will spend $7,550 to increase betting tonight". If they can increase their take by $7,551, its a profitable night.
 
Just to clarify:
  • Winning a table game earns you 1 entry.
  • All entries are put in a drum.
  • 5 entries are drawn, each winning $209.72 (on average).
  • all remaining entries remain in the drum.
So how many entries occur in an hour, and throughout the day? That's where the challenge occurs. You assume you are "winning" (buying) 25% of the entries, but that seems unlikely at best, over 6 games x the number of tables running those games, x the number of players playing each of those games.

And if the casino caught on, who would care. If I'm a pit boss and someone asked why is chkmte playing every number? I'd happily tell them about the promotion. Maybe they will all bet every number, and the take on my tables are far greater than ever before.

The casino figures "We will spend $7,550 to increase betting tonight". If they can increase their take by $7,551, its a profitable night.
Five entries are drawn at 6:30, 7:30, 8:30, 9:30, 10:30 and one entry at 11:30.

The casino will be busy post-5 o'clock, but during the day there will be little action.

The pit boss I asked thought there might be two hundred tickets, perhaps a few more put in the barrel.
 
I’d want to scour the rules for limitations on entries per person, the extent of house discretion in limiting entries, etcetera, before making this play. I have found the argument “Well, the rules don’t PROHIBIT this” to not always be effective.

As mentioned, people will catch on to your strat very quickly. If the house doesn’t stop you, other players will likely mimic it, so getting 100 out of 400 entries might not be the reality.

That said, it sounds like you understand this stuff pretty well. I think it’s a great idea and hope you are able to put yourself in a position of +EV.
 
Since they have run similar promotions, I guess they are aware if it is a money winner/loser. They need to boost their numbers $7,551 over a regular evening for this to be profitable. This may come from increased gambling, drinking (are drinks free in KC?), parking (unless it's also free), food sales, and other sources of income the property generates.
 
...also, not all casino promotions are about immediate value. If they can attract new or infrequent players and give them a good night of fun, there is an increased chance they will return - with or without the promotion.
 
I’d want to scour the rules for limitations on entries per person, the extent of house discretion in limiting entries, etcetera, before making this play. I have found the argument “Well, the rules don’t PROHIBIT this” to not always be effective.

As mentioned, people will catch on to your strat very quickly. If the house doesn’t stop you, other players will likely mimic it, so getting 100 out of 400 entries might not be the reality.

That said, it sounds like you understand this stuff pretty well. I think it’s a great idea and hope you are able to put yourself in a position of +EV.
True, I would say it's not prohibited. But, neither is card counting until they figure out you're winning.

As far other players mimicking my approach, I'm not too sure that would happen. Most people who visit casinos don't care about, or understand enough about math - and that's why they keep going back.

It's interesting, we'll see what happens.
 
Remember that Phil Ivey played by the rules (and accommodations) set by the casino and he still had to pay back $10m.

“...a player is prohibited from combining his skill and intellect and visual acuity to beat the casino at its own game,” Jacobs said to The Associated Press. “The casino agreed to every single accommodation requested by Phil Ivey in his four visits because they were eager to try to win his money.”

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2016/12/court-orders-phil-ivey-to-return-10m-to-borgata-26638.htm
 
But I this case you’re not going to take any money from the casino that they don’t plan on paying out. Unlike ivy who cost them money they were not planning on paying out. I say go for it and buy as many $2 tickets as you can. $200 is a pretty small risk based on your analysis.
 
But I this case you’re not going to take any money from the casino that they don’t plan on paying out. Unlike ivy who cost them money they were not planning on paying out. I say go for it and buy as many $2 tickets as you can. $200 is a pretty small risk based on your analysis.
I agree. It would be satisfying to just beat the contest. It's not even about the money really. Certainly would be a confidence boost to predict such a positive EV play.
 
Could also get a teammate(s) to split the bets, then nobody catches on, just have to split the haul.
They won't catch on? Yeeeeah, that's an advanced angle there :D

Even better, you could just kick the plug right out of the socket!
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As a former dealer I'll say I'd have my suspicions what was going on during the first spin and have them confirmed during the second :)
 
But the casino is planning on giving away the money regardless, and the plan to play every number in roulette is generating money for the casino, as he will lose $2 per spin. I can't believe they'd discourage him losing money at a casino to get a chance at the promotion.
 
Lots of good points here. Thanks for chiming in everyone.
 
So, uhh, apparently I should, like, read the OP?
 
Hello again. Well, I was unable to execute my plan due to a scheduling conflict. However, I was there for each of the drawings and my estimates were quite accurate - which is exciting. I’d say there were between 150-250 tickets in the clear raffle drum. Nobody took the contest over as I proposed. The final (6) envelopes contained $3,150 total.

It was most certainly a +EV scenario and I look forward to finding another like contest.
 
I’d be cautious concluding the number of entries would be the same had your roulette strategy been employed, but w/e. Cool thread, bro.
 

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