Cashless Vegas? Could they go Chipless? (1 Viewer)

[TheDonkeyKong]

i also posted this picture in a different thread but i am already seeing Atlantic city changing the gaming tables over
here is a pic of roulette table my friends were playing at, i was like WTF stay home and play if your doing this electronic stuff. I seen the craps tables version also.

This might force chip makers to re evaluate their view of the home gaming market.

View attachment 829046

These have been out for years, especially smaller casinos that don’t offer live table games.

 

[tabletalker7]

I think we are all missing the real point behind this. Casinos starting using chips so the average person wouldn't really understand they were betting so large, since a hundred dollar bet was really only one black disc and not a pile of cash. Now that people smartened up to it, they are having you use your phone and get tickets. This is about nothing more than making people not realize they lost their entire life savings without noticing it. I understand that a casino only exist because of pure greed, but this is too much even for a complete a***ole like me. Definitely boycotting this.

 

[TeamNapoli]

These have been out for years, especially smaller casinos that don’t offer live table games.

of course the smaller casinos are always testing grounds, the point is that the big casinos are moving them to prime floor real estate, which is making the need for casino chips smaller and smaller

 

[allforcharity]

I’ve played on that shit. It’s freaking dangerous, because without chips to deal with, they can spin that shit every 30 seconds instead of every two minutes.
You can lose your chips (credits) SO much faster!

This is why casinos maximize slot machine space. One play every 5 seconds. Ridiculous profits. Pretty much all house edge.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I think we are all missing the real point behind this. ...This is about nothing more than making people not realize they lost their entire life savings without noticing it.

I think you are looking at only a single aspect. Getting players to not notice how much they are losing is only a single aspect.

• Electronic games move faster.
• Electronic games make cheating more difficult.
• Electronic games may be leased, so if it doesn't turn a profit, it is gone.
• Electronic games don't make mistakes.
• Electronic games need fewer employees to run.
• Electronic games can accurately track a players bets, including wins and losses, thus their value to the casino.

There may be even more aspects that are beneficial to the house, but this list shows that it is not "about nothing more". It is about a lot more. All chips give the casino is a slight edge on uncashed chips - and even those are a loss to casinos that still use fracs.

I love chips, but I wouldn't want to be the guy arguing in a board meeting about the value of chips, when the accountants have many far better arguments.

 

[Stufflymcstuff]

There’s also the fact that a lot of people will be less inclined to play / will play for shorter periods of times on electronic tables. Consumer preferences change over time but it takes a long time for older generation gamblers - a big part of the experience is the nostalgia of what has been seen in movies and what they’ve done when younger. If they don’t offer it they’ll lose at least some of their business to casinos who will offer it so I would imagine large casinos will always maintain at least a few operational craps/blackjack/roulette tables with chips.

Electronic poker tables have been tried near me. They were not very popular. The same card room was absolutely packed with waitlists before they switched.

 

[Nanook]

There were many threads just like this back on CT 15+ yrs ago. Lots of people thought chips and dealers would be long gone by now, buy here we are. We still have both....

Sure there all sorts of reasons casino's may want to get rid of dealers and chips, but plenty of people are not going to play without both. Poker, Craps etc without chips and dealers and other players is pretty much the same as playing online. It just isn't the same and as long as people feel that way there will continue to be both chips and dealers.

 

[TeamNapoli]

There were many threads just like this back on CT 15+ yrs ago. Lots of people thought chips and dealers would be long gone by now, buy here we are. We still have both....

Sure there all sorts of reasons casino's may want to get rid of dealers and chips, but plenty of people are not going to play without both. Poker, Craps etc without chips and dealers and other players is pretty much the same as playing online. It just isn't the same and as long as people feel that way there will continue to be both chips and dealers.

I prey your 100% on this; however there is a new generation coming up addicted to flashing blue and white light. A generation that cant even get their heads out of their phones when with company or eating or whatever. Which brings up the effers who are on their tablets and phones at the poker tables...uuugghh

Also their more comfortable with digital betting now due to on line gaming\betting.

 

[SuckoutKing]

If this happens, i wouldn't go back.

 

[Nanook]

If this happens, i wouldn't go back.

I agree 100%

 

[Poker Zombie]

If this happens, i wouldn't go back.

I agree 100%

I think casinos have a lot of patrons that say this.

Again, I love chips. I prefer real chips and real cards - it's not even close. But how many people switched to online poker during the lockdown? I did (for a while) and I intensely dislike online poker. But when it was the only option, I was pleased to see I still had an account I hadn't used since 2011, and I was back in the game.

I dropped offline as soon as the situation appeared was safe enough to host a five player table.

I have also played on the electronic poker tables when they had them at the Plaza Las Vegas. Again, I didn't like it as much, but it was far better than any online experience. Nevermind that I binked the tournament, it was still social and fun.

I imagine casino gaming would be much the same. If you go to Vegas to gamble, you are going to get your fill in the best way possible. You may look for real games, but if those are all no-gos, you will sit at an electronic table. You can either have fun, or sit there yelling at clouds and groaning on about how games were better when you were a kid.

TITO tickets were loathed when they were introduced, and most places that added them took them back out. But they came back... and they stayed. Sure, the casino may lose a few old-timers. The accountants will balance the losses vs costs, and make the best possible financial decision.

 

[Nanook]

I think casinos have a lot of patrons that say this.

I know they do, at least for the time being this is still the majority of people.

Again, I love chips. I prefer real chips and real cards - it's not even close. But how many people switched to online poker during the lockdown? I did (for a while) and I intensely dislike online poker. But when it was the only option, I was pleased to see I still had an account I hadn't used since 2011, and I was back in the game.

We like real chips and real dealers and the real experience at least in part because of the social aspect of it. I have played online a lot too, but remove the social aspect and it just isn't as fun. Make everything chip less and dealer less and you might as well stay home and play online. What is the point of spending the money to get to Vegas and pay for Airline, hotel, expensive food, guest fees (lol), etc? Of course all of this is opinion, but it is my opinion and certainly a lot of others too.

I dropped offline as soon as the situation appeared was safe enough to host a five player table........

Same for me...
Another topic, but I think it is really unfortunate that there is not universal acceptance across all 50 states that online poker is ok. I think there is actually a place for both brick and mortar and online poker and if/when there as some sort of real agreement (universally accepted legalization) there will be another poker boom both online and in poker rooms. Until that time, we are in a slow grind of less and less rooms, players, options etc

 

[ekricket]

Some junior casino executive will have a bright idea in the near future to offer live poker in the casinos, and remarkably it will be successful and their dad will give them a raise for it.

 

[Poker Zombie]

We like real chips and real dealers and the real experience at least in part because of the social aspect of it. I have played online a lot too, but remove the social aspect and it just isn't as fun. Make everything chip less and dealer less and you might as well stay home and play online. What is the point of spending the money to get to Vegas and pay for Airline, hotel, expensive food, guest fees (lol), etc? Of course all of this is opinion, but it is my opinion and certainly a lot of others too.

I'm guessing you haven't played on an electronic table? I've played on an electronic poker table, and it was a blast.

Plaza Las Vegas, June, 2015. $15 tournament. I sat down and with an open mind and was immediately disappointed when my instinct to shuffle chips was left unfulfilled. By the end of the first orbit, I had adjusted to peeking at the fake cards, and how to make my wagers. The drink server was... absent. I guess for $15, you cant expect a lot of free drinks.

The table was getting a little rowdy. It's downtown. People are rarely sober downtown, and by my calculation of the structure and the anticipated number of players, we were going to roll for 4 hours without a drink. So I reached into my wallet, took out some money, and flagged a server.

She came over. I swear she might have had a cigarette hanging from her lip, but in actuality, it was just her level of interest. I ordered a drink, and before she moved on, I dropped $10 onto her tray.

"What's this for honey?", she asked, making me wonder if I dropped a ten or my phone number.

"That's for you. A tip."

Fastest drink to ever return to the table, in the history of Vegas. Well, my history of Vegas. The server was probably around in the 70s, and people like Sinatra probably didn't wait long for their drinks.

I never ordered another drink the rest of the night. When my glass reached half-full, she arrived with a full one. The whole table was laughing and living. Nobody had big money on the line, it was $15. A few days earlier I was playing at the World Series of Poker, and most of those people were all business. This was a home game - Shitty chips (well, no chips, but at least they weren't Dice chips), friendly conversations, and someone else bought all the drinks.

I went on to Bink the tournament. 4 tables @ $15 a head. First place paid $70. Hell of a rake, but it was fun.

You aren't going to get that kind of experience online.

Another topic, but I think it is really unfortunate that there is not universal acceptance across all 50 states that online poker is ok. I think there is actually a place for both brick and mortar and online poker and if/when there as some sort of real agreement (universally accepted legalization) there will be another poker boom both online and in poker rooms. Until that time, we are in a slow grind of less and less rooms, players, options etc

I have many opinions about that as well, but my comments are only appropriate for the politics thread. Only politicians can change the law and allow me to open a public poker room. I have the funding and we all know I would get the chips (no electronic tables at the Zombie Club), but I cannot override the funding that keeps it Illegal in my state.

 

[bergs]

Part of the reason properties are closing their poker rooms (including several on the Strip in addition to what was previously mentioned) is because they need room for electronic gaming and slots.

Grow that home game scene because that may be all that is left local to you in 10 years.

 

[ThinkingFold]

I think you are looking at only a single aspect. Getting players to not notice how much they are losing is only a single aspect.

• Electronic games move faster.
• Electronic games make cheating more difficult.
• Electronic games may be leased, so if it doesn't turn a profit, it is gone.
• Electronic games don't make mistakes.
• Electronic games need fewer employees to run.
• Electronic games can accurately track a players bets, including wins and losses, thus their value to the casino.

There may be even more aspects that are beneficial to the house, but this list shows that it is not "about nothing more". It is about a lot more. All chips give the casino is a slight edge on uncashed chips - and even those are a loss to casinos that still use fracs.

I love chips, but I wouldn't want to be the guy arguing in a board meeting about the value of chips, when the accountants have many far better arguments.

The Professor, the Banker, and the Suicide King talks about the fact that when the mega casinos started going into Vegas, the casino exec's wanted nothing to do with poker rooms. They viewed them as a drain on profits. I'm sure it is the exact same with electronic games vs table games. They care nothing about the nostalgia of a table game, only what makes the average patron spend the most amount of money in the quickest way possible.

 

[Poker Zombie]

The Professor, the Banker, and the Suicide King talks about the fact that when the mega casinos started going into Vegas, the casino exec's wanted nothing to do with poker rooms. They viewed them as a drain on profits. I'm sure it is the exact same with electronic games vs table games. They care nothing about the nostalgia of a table game, only what makes the average patron spend the most amount of money in the quickest way possible.

I agree that profit is the only driving force. That profit comes from milking the consumer and cutting corners.

Believe me, if casinos could have just thrown up a "Go Fund Me" page during the lockdown, the strip may have never reopened.

 

[bergs]

I agree that profit is the only driving force. That profit comes from milking the consumer and cutting corners.

Believe me, if casinos could have just thrown up a "Go Fund Me" page during the lockdown, the strip may have never reopened.

Same thing some technology firms do now, FWIW. Feels like this trend will continue accelerating as public companies keep squeezing to find profits to report to the Street on a quarterly basis. I don’t recall it being this prevalent before.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Same thing some technology firms do now, FWIW. Feels like this trend will continue accelerating as public companies keep squeezing to find profits to report to the Street on a quarterly basis. I don’t recall it being this prevalent before.

You would actually have a pretty hard time finding a company that isn't profit-driven, shareholders or no. Casino greed or shareholders are just scapegoats.

It's kind of the whole concept of capitalism.

 

[bergs]

You would actually have a pretty hard time finding a company that isn't profit-driven, shareholders or no. Casino greed or shareholders are just scapegoats.

It's kind of the whole concept of capitalism.

I get that, what I’m saying is that businesses seem to be more willing to screw customers and partners to make a quarterly number than they used to be.

 

[Kain8]

I get that, what I’m saying is that businesses seem to be more willing to screw customers and partners to make a quarterly number than they used to be.

Late stage capitalism baby. If your company isn't trying to earn every single dollar in the world 24/7/365 and outdo last month/quarter/year's earnings, you're not worth investing in. The money is drying up and yet everyone wants MORE.

Oh, and screw cashless (chipless), electronic tables of all sorts. Casinos are already just glorified slot machine buildings so if all the table games disappear overnight, the shift will barely register with the general public.

 

[ekricket]

For whichever side this lands on, one things for sure, you can’t skim cashless.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Oh, and screw cashless (chipless), electronic tables of all sorts. Casinos are already just glorified slot machine buildings so if all the table games disappear overnight, the shift will barely register with the general public.

This has always felt like the push, since I've been aware of the cost per foot profit (or take) of a slot machine vs all other revenue (including shows, restaurants, table games, and nightclubs).

At the same time, I have never seen a slots only building very busy. Slots O Fun feels like a ghost town compared to Circus Circus, a few steps away. At some point the balance of a true casino experience breaks. I don't know what it is, and I suspect it varies depending on your core demographic. But tables sometimes get added, moved and removed. During the boom, everyone was shoving slot machines out of the way to provide for poker. 15 years later, poker was getting pushed aside.

I doubt all table games will be eliminated, but I could see them going fully electronic buy the time today's youngest gamblers have grandchildren.

 

[ktran]

There's always that sign on machines that's says any malfunction of the machine will void all pay and plays. Although that might be rare, higher buy-in's might be worrisome and refunds might not see so good. Not sure how each payout is recorded through machine tickets, but I'd imagine for the not so "clean" casinos it would be easier to "push around numbers" when it's cash and chips. Yeah machine would generate more money overall, but I'd imagine there's still some type of skimming to some degree or less incentive to skim. Yes they gain way more advantages money wise, but I'd imagine they would spend tons of money on security the tech side. The cheaters will turn more into hackers. The lost chips vs nickel and diming from the payout tickets almost might be same. The fun experience with definitely change with craps and poker like @swana mentioned. It won't be as interactive, but physical cards and dice would probably still be there for trust transparency. If they replace dice and cards, what's the point of the buildings anymore.

Can someone explain to me why the roulette ball is not transparent for trust like dice?

If you want to see the value of your playable chip sets soar, you will pray for chipless gaming to happen ASAP.

I don't think at the cost of losing the poker rooms. Or maybe they just keep chips for certain games.

 

[ktran]

I haven't played on the electronic craps table yet, but this video is very descriptive. Rolling seems better overall according to this video. "Speed bumps" he said in the video is something that has to be experienced in person.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I haven't played on the electronic craps table yet, but this video is very descriptive. Rolling seems better overall according to this video. "Speed bumps" he said I the video is something that has to be experienced in person.

Wait... was that our @toothpic ?

 

[Stackdclub]

i also posted this picture in a different thread but i am already seeing Atlantic city changing the gaming tables over
here is a pic of roulette table my friends were playing at, i was like WTF stay home and play if your doing this electronic stuff. I seen the craps tables version also.

This might force chip makers to re evaluate their view of the home gaming market.

View attachment 829046

This has no appeal to me whatsoever… if that’s what casinos will become, I guess I’ll be finding another hobby

 

[Felt_Lizard]

 

[greenchip]

I’ve heard at Resorts World that drunk folks have hard time with cashless tables and apps. I think using chips will make gamblers to spend more regardless.

Slots moved from coins to TITOs (tickets) in the late 90s to early 00s, but still now majority of the tables use chips. That tells that casinos didn’t switch to TITOs to simply make players gamble more.

Electronic craps tables use TITOs and I don’t see the popularity and excitement among players on them in Vegas than craps tables with chips. I don’t play craps, just my observation. Casinos love to see that either.

 

[allforcharity]

I also find it difficult to imagine chipless roulette. RFID, maybe.