Cashless Vegas? Could they go Chipless? (1 Viewer)

Things like this will make a Vegas trip as special as a trip to the mall. There’s nothing like actually throwing money (or money substitutes) around. Imagine throwing your room card on a craps table saying “a big one on yo and two on the line”, croupiers pushing cards around instead of chips, lol.
 
I’ve been thinking this change is going to happen faster than we anticipated. I recall @Poker Zombie discussing the video blackjack stadium being full in Vegas years ago, I’ve seen the latest automated roulette and craps. All of those are way less imitating to newer player who don’t want to get yelled at by players for making “incorrect” bets/plays.

We all know they have the video poker tables. Just a question if the strip goes fully automated do live players get their fix downtown or does downtown follow suit?
 
Also Vegas has already started cutting into gaming area for more profitable areas of entertainment with cover charges and overpriced drinks.
 
noone was as concerned about the health risks of hooker juice before covid
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You'd be surprised, #Mysophobia

The good thing about covid is the rest of the world got a peak into our lives. I wash my hands about every 30 minutes while at a table, I don't play with my phone, won't touch food or my face at all.
 
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You’re worried about chipless; I’m worried about live-poker-less.
I don’t know what the count is on live tables in Vegas, but here’s what’s happening at the two nearest venues me:

Encore Boston Harbor:
Pre covid: they had the best poker room I’d ever seen, with about 75 tables, with a wonderful variety of stakes, games and tournaments,
Now: they still haven’t reopened their poker room. The recently announced they’d reopen in a month or two, with 12 tables that would be open mon-Friday only, until 8:00 PM.

The Brook, NH
Pre-Covid. About a year before Covid, this Seabrook, NH poker room was bought by a Vegas outfit and renovated. Post-renovation, they still had something like 6-8 cash tables and a huge, active tournament room that would draw tournaments of 100+, multiple times a week.
This sane outfit bought The Hampton Poler Room - a rival room, literally right down the street. That room had a floor of about 12 cash tables, and a floor of about 15 tournament tables - also very active, but at the time they were purchased, they were probably only drawing tournaments of 40-80, several times a week.
Anyway, the Brook bought them just to shut them down, and kill the competition. But the Brook was still running 2-3 100+ runner tournaments per week, and 3-5 20-50 runner tournaments per week, in addition to their 6-8 cash tables.
Now: 0 tournaments 4-6 cash tables, and a huge facility full of Staduim Gambling, stupid table/pit games, and a giant sports book.

TL;DR - near me, in Boston and Southern NH, since covid, live cash games are greatly reduced abd live tournaments went from robust to non-existent.
 
I must be getting old because the future looks gross. Those new electronic craps tables are awful. I know craps is not the most profitable for casinos but damn you are not getting me in the door otherwise.

That's right I said it... I go to casinos for craps NOT poker!!!
 
upNdown said:
You’re worried about chipless; I’m worried about live-poker-less.
I don’t know what the count is on live tables in Vegas, but here’s what’s happening at the two nearest venues me:

Encore Boston Harbor:
Pre covid: they had the best poker room I’d ever seen, with about 75 tables, with a wonderful variety of stakes, games and tournaments,
Now: they still haven’t reopened their poker room. The recently announced they’d reopen in a month or two, with 12 tables that would be open mon-Friday only, until 8:00 PM.

The Brook, NH
Pre-Covid. About a year before Covid, this Seabrook, NH poker room was bought by a Vegas outfit and renovated. Post-renovation, they still had something like 6-8 cash tables and a huge, active tournament room that would draw tournaments of 100+, multiple times a week.
This sane outfit bought The Hampton Poler Room - a rival room, literally right down the street. That room had a floor of about 12 cash tables, and a floor of about 15 tournament tables - also very active, but at the time they were purchased, they were probably only drawing tournaments of 40-80, several times a week.
Anyway, the Brook bought them just to shut them down, and kill the competition. But the Brook was still running 2-3 100+ runner tournaments per week, and 3-5 20-50 runner tournaments per week, in addition to their 6-8 cash tables.
Now: 0 tournaments 4-6 cash tables, and a huge facility full of Staduim Gambling, stupid table/pit games, and a giant sports book.

TL;DR - near me, in Boston and Southern NH, since covid, live cash games are greatly reduced abd live tournaments went from robust to non-existent.
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MGM National harbor....at 1040 on a Wednesday morning has 14 tables running. You CANNOT get a seat on a weekend. Live poker is still going strong. Not sure what's up with your local rooms. Hell, even Richmond...where LIVE POKER is illegal....is finding a way to circumvent state laws and pack a card room with 15 tables full!
 
Our Vegas trip in early October I got my first session on "Roll to Win" Craps table. A single dealer. lower limit, faster pace of play, 2x odds . . . I hatted it. It was robotic and very little "fun" factor. I'll play bubble craps and roulette on occasion. UTH here has electronic version of playing for the progressive jackpot. Stadium pit games are alright with a live dealer (kinda alright). It's hard to replace live dealers and the comradery of players on the hands on pit games. But on topic, nothing like handling your chips, shuffling, stacking, shoving etc..

As far as poker, they tried electronic games a few years ago. Simply by chance, I was playing at Luxor the final night of the "live dealer" poker and they were doing high hand giveaways every hour (whittling down the jackpot prize pools). I actually was in the very last hand of live dealer poker that night (morning). Long story short, the "electronic" versions of poker didn't last long at all, they were hated and faded away.

I hope they never do away with chips/cheques, it would be a sad day indeed.
 
swana said:
I must be getting old because the future looks gross. Those new electronic craps tables are awful. I know craps is not the most profitable for casinos but damn you are not getting me in the door otherwise.

That's right I said it... I go to casinos for craps NOT poker!!!
Click to expand...

When I sit at the poker table, deep down, I am patiently waiting to get onto the craps table :).
 
allforcharity said:
If you want to see the value of your playable chip sets soar, you will pray for chipless gaming to happen ASAP.
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As soon as I saw this thread I thought “Great. As if hoarding wasn’t bad enough already.” But I guess casinos could establish a new source of revenue by licensing out their poker chip designs for GPI to sell directly to consumers.

In a world without physical casino chips, who cares whether spotted Flamingo’s are being created for the general public. They make money!

Both sides of the coin here.
 
grebe said:
MGM National harbor....at 1040 on a Wednesday morning has 14 tables running. You CANNOT get a seat on a weekend. Live poker is still going strong. Not sure what's up with your local rooms. Hell, even Richmond...where LIVE POKER is illegal....is finding a way to circumvent state laws and pack a card room with 15 tables full!
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Oh, I know live poker is strong from players perspectives. If I drive another hour, further north, there’s a place running tournaments on Tuesday nights, with a terrible structure, that will sell 120 seats and still have 15 or 20 people waiting to grab a seat late. In an awful structure. On a Tuesday night.
It’s definitely an “if you build it, they will come” situation.
I just think factors like the casino’s low profit margin on poker, the labor shortage for dealers (and for Encore Boston, the parking shortage) have combined to convince some casinos that they can make more money in much easier ways than poker. And I’m hoping that attitude isn’t contagious. But it certainly isn’t new. There are probably less than half as many poker rooms on the strip and there were 10 years ago, and that trend began long before Covid.
I’m just saying, instead of worrying about chipless casinos in the future, maybe we should worry about poker-less casinos, in the future.
 
TCS John Huxley is doing some amazing things with elegantly designed casino tables and layouts that are essentially large gel touch screen monitors. The chips haven't gone away yet, but I think it's coming. And I don't need to remind anyone here that we are essentially one company closure away from not having custom clay chips anymore,

I believe we are not very far away from a time when there will be no physical casino to visit. Current players may like going to the casino, but there will be a shift to all-online as we age out of visiting. (I once heard a casino manager refer to older patrons as "wheelchair racers.")

It will all be on your phone, or inside that new virtual reality headset. Or the chip they put inside your head.

So I believe I will live to see a 3D image of Caesar, generated from inside my occipital lobe, shouting, "We are all Caesars!"
 
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upNdown said:
Oh, I know live poker is strong from players perspectives. If I drive another hour, further north, there’s a place running tournaments on Tuesday nights, with a terrible structure, that will sell 120 seats and still have 15 or 20 people waiting to grab a seat late. In an awful structure. On a Tuesday night.
It’s definitely an “if you build it, they will come” situation.
I just think factors like the casino’s low profit margin on poker, the labor shortage for dealers (and for Encore Boston, the parking shortage) have combined to convince some casinos that they can make more money in much easier ways than poker. And I’m hoping that attitude isn’t contagious. But it certainly isn’t new. There are probably less than half as many poker rooms on the strip and there were 10 years ago, and that trend began long before Covid.
I’m just saying, instead of worrying about chipless casinos in the future, maybe we should worry about poker-less casinos, in the future.
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By the way (and I know I’ve hijacked this thread too much, sorry.). The answer is simple - states or cities or whomever, just need to give poker-only licenses. It’s a proven profitable business model. But once you let these greedy effers install stadium Blackjack/War/Roulette terminals, they suddenly don’t want to waste space on poker.
 
i also posted this picture in a different thread but i am already seeing Atlantic city changing the gaming tables over
here is a pic of roulette table my friends were playing at, i was like WTF stay home and play if your doing this electronic stuff. I seen the craps tables version also.

This might force chip makers to re evaluate their view of the home gaming market.

electronic roulette.jpg
 
I can't really see them phasing out chips altogether. My last trip to Vegas barely saw anyone at dealer-less/chip-less table games. There is just such a lack of energy there and it is an experience that can basically be replicated on your computer. Plus, I have an underlying feeling that I am just playing against a rigged machine, depending on the game.

I also think there is the "gift card"-type angle as well. People will pocket chips with the intention to either revisit the casino later in their trip or cash them out at the cage, but due to running out of time or a stupid line, they end up pocketing them without cashing out. I feel like those instances probably add up to a genuinely substantial amount.
 
TeamNapoli said:
i also posted this picture in a different thread but i am already seeing Atlantic city changing the gaming tables over
here is a pic of roulette table my friends were playing at, i was like WTF stay home and play if your doing this electronic stuff. I seen the craps tables version also.

This might force chip makers to re evaluate their view of the home gaming market.

View attachment 829046
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I’ve played on that shit. It’s freaking dangerous, because without chips to deal with, they can spin that shit every 30 seconds instead of every two minutes.
You can lose your chips (credits) SO much faster!
 
upNdown said:
I’ve played on that shit. It’s freaking dangerous, because without chips to deal with, they can spin that shit every 30 seconds instead of every two minutes.
You can lose your chips (credits) SO much faster!
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I believe you've identified the crux, good sir.

Fact is customers demand table limits that are affordable, shareholders demand profits, but casinos are hard pressed to satisfy both demands via the traditional methods. Throw in financial legislation requiring gaming activity to be tracked via a players card (in canada, anyways to deter/track money laundering, etc.), and yeah, this is the way things are going.
 
upNdown said:
I’ve played on that shit. It’s freaking dangerous, because without chips to deal with, they can spin that shit every 30 seconds instead of every two minutes.
You can lose your chips (credits) SO much faster!
Click to expand...
i actually did not sit down at the table, tg i was called to the poker table. they enjoyed it and actually stayed at the roulette and the one guy took his name off the poker waiting list. In terms of speed, i think it was at a descent pace, they were all able to laugh and bs. Another thing i hated but i am sure the casinos love, that lcd panel next to the cash card slot bombs you with advertising.

The pitboss explained to me that you will eventually be able to book shows, dinner reservations, order drinks, and be paged from. The panels will be multi lingual depends on what your cash card indicates; and scariest of all ... the surveys indicate the under 40 crowd preferring the new tables 3 to 1. It not a question when the casinos will bring in more new tables its a question how quick the table makers can fill the casinos needs with the " added value" :vomit::vomit::vomit: interfaces
 
This reminds me of a conversation I had with co-workers in the late 1980's.

The topic was: Would you agree to get paid 10% more money, but have to make all transactions cashless. At the time, cashless basically meant direct deposits and credit cards. Most people back then still took paper checks to the bank to deposit them.

The vast majority said no, even if they doubled your pay. Reasons included security, and not having "the man" track every penny you spend. These were probably the same people who would later resist buying a movie, music, or a computer program without getting a physical cassette or disk.

Yet here we are today. People spending actual currency on Bitcoin or other NFTs. Real money for a form of currency that doesn't exist anywhere in the physical world. My only use of currency is poker and food transactions at the firehouse, and younger firefighters rarely pay their share in paper currency, it's all Venmo.

It took time for TITO to catch on, but now it is the standard. I too hated it at first, because I loved the buckets of quarters, and the real sound of chips filling the hopper. But if you think chips are dirty, they are downright sanitary compared to what your hands looked like after handling a bucket of change. The casinos just need to figure a way to make their property more enticing than online casinos.

Vegas without chips. It's only a couple generations behind us.
 
I noticed that the number of players at the chips table and the number of players at the chip-less table were pretty even.

News Flash: Average people don't care much about chips.
 

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