Cashless and Chipless casinos.

RivieraDanny

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Yeah, but I want chips and real dealers. As somebody mentioned, I don’t tip machines. A big part of craps is the dealer “watching” your bets for you. Reminding you if your forget to place a bet you’ve been placing all day, taking verbal bets, etc. I will take care of good dealers who help my game. So the machine is good for the casino with less payroll, but bad for the dealers.
@coolguy101 Nail......... Head......... The company only cares about what is good for them. They care less about the dealers. Ooooo I could tell some stories there but thats a whole new thread... Scroll up to the craps table video.. There's a tip dealer button!!!
 

BGinGA

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According to the GPI financial records I've seen, check/chip sales are a pretty small part of their revenue.
 

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What happens to us chippers?

Word makes it’s way through the industry every once and a while that certain government agencies revive discussions on how to get a better handle on gaming and the currency involved.

great inroads have been established to prevent the laundering of cash, some of which were marketed as convenience.

I remember years ago listening how happy the owners and bosses were that the TITO was perfected and approved, they couldn’t wait for it’s roll out. No more coin counting and no more ordering those dreadful tokens! The age of the white gloved old ladies with their blackened gloves (and blue hair and too much perfume). Would come to an end.
I was present when a discussion to analyze how much more they would make on the tickets that got taken home, destroyed or expired would be compared to the tokens given that now they would take home pennies, dimes, nickels etc. and not just dollar tokens.

Now it seems the worry is that governmental agencies will push for electronic transfers and all electronic wagers on machines and table games and use the “virus” as reason, public

I for one wouldn’t like having to do this!View attachment 616587

or sit here....

What’s your thoughts on playing in a chipless casino??
(Not why it will or won’t happen)

View attachment 616590
This has been tried at several large casinos over the last decade or so. Best case, it was met with little interest. Worst case, complete failure.
Can't get by the fact that people want to handle chips and cards (and dice).
 

coolguy101

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@coolguy101 Nail......... Head......... The company only cares about what is good for them. They care less about the dealers. Ooooo I could tell some stories there but thats a whole new thread... Scroll up to the craps table video.. There's a tip dealer button!!!
I just won’t play anymore. I don’t do slots or equivalent machines. But I don’t think the casinos will miss me. Table games on the main floor is probably a fraction of their revenue. If they were the main draw, casino floors would be all table games and not slots.
 

RivieraDanny

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According to the GPI financial records I've seen, check/chip sales are a pretty small part of their revenue.
Ill bet they are.. While they're small players in the Gaming area you don't get to the 85 Million mark without alternate revenue streams! IGT/Shuffle just has the vast share in that field so Ill bet its a buy or be bought world there.... I'm sure the big companies would love to gobble up GPI!
 

RivieraDanny

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I just won’t play anymore. I don’t do slots or equivalent machines. But I don’t think the casinos will miss me. Table games on the main floor is probably a fraction of their revenue. If they were the main draw, casino floors would be all table games and not slots.
I'm in your camp @coolguy101 I say I wont play either! Well until they convince me or I miss it too much! LOL
 

RivieraDanny

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This has been tried at several large casinos over the last decade or so. Best case, it was met with little interest. Worst case, complete failure.
Can't get by the fact that people want to handle chips and cards (and dice).
Remember @Jambine, technology has come a long way in a decade. Anyway all I'm saying is that if the casinos want to reduce who handles their cash (which they all do) they'll find a way whether us chip shufflers like it or not.. slots are the trains engine then the Big League players and the rest of us are in the caboose..
 

Emitsu

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According to the GPI financial records I've seen, check/chip sales are a pretty small part of their revenue.
Wow didnt know that, I thought thats all they did? What else makes up their revenue? Table Game equipment?
 

Tarheel4Life

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Electronic poker tables in casinos might be the only thing to stop me from playing in a casino (that, and a global pandemic).

I’m never going to trust a third party that benefits from bigger pots (more rake) to run a electronic poker room. Even if it’s legislated and regulated there will be loopholes and properties will run afoul of the regulations and push the limits of the legislated operation. It’s in their best interest to do so.
 

RivieraDanny

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Electronic poker tables in casinos might be the only thing to stop me from playing in a casino (that, and a global pandemic).

I’m never going to trust a third party that benefits from bigger pots (more rake) to run a electronic poker room. Even if it’s legislated and regulated there will be loopholes and properties will run afoul of the regulations and push the limits of the legislated operation. It’s in their best interest to do so.
You'd have to assume they care..
 

CrazyEddie

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If a casino's electronic poker table is rigged, it could only be rigged to advantage some other player, not the house. So why would a casino bother?

It could potentially be rigged to lie about the amount of rake it's taking, but that's publicly visible, and any player can double-check for themselves that the rake is correct.

An electronic poker table would probably end up taking less rake than a live dealer, since the casino wouldn't have to pay for a dealer's wages. And the players wouldn't have to tip the dealer either, so you'd be saving even more money.
 

RivieraDanny

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If a casino's electronic poker table is rigged, it could only be rigged to advantage some other player, not the house. So why would a casino bother?

It could potentially be rigged to lie about the amount of rake it's taking, but that's publicly visible, and any player can double-check for themselves that the rake is correct.

An electronic poker table would probably end up taking less rake than a live dealer, since the casino wouldn't have to pay for a dealer's wages. And the players wouldn't have to tip the dealer either, so you'd be saving even more money.
Oh come on!!! Of course they would then they'd take the chance of putting a shill in to play the rigged hands at each table!!!!! I mean its only their gaming license at stake!!
(Disclosure: I am totally kidding here, no attacks needed!)
 

viet rounder

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I don’t see how it can go virtual for the table games. The physical aspect (chips, cards,dice) is a big part of the overall experience. Also, as mentioned previously, players are superstitious and often don’t trust computers. Just look at online poker. Can’t tell you how often I’ve heard people complain that pokerstars, 888, etc is rigged.
 

CaptC07

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People complain about everything given the opportunity. Slots are easily the biggest money maker in the casino. Those machines are inherently "fixable". When it comes down to it people want to win money...so as long as they can still do that while getting free booze...they will play whatever the casino provides.
 

Chipton

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If this was to happen whats the point of a physical casino even existing? They have all of these virtual machines and rooms online, I dont see a difference at that point. In fact the casino could save even more money by not having a physical location, it will just make it one step closer to that happening if chips get removed
I personally would never play real money virtual blackjack, craps or roulette. I like to actually see the cards in the shoe, the ball being spun by a real person and the dice being thrown right in front of me.
 

viet rounder

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People complain about everything given the opportunity. Slots are easily the biggest money maker in the casino. Those machines are inherently "fixable". When it comes down to it people want to win money...so as long as they can still do that while getting free booze...they will play whatever the casino provides.

Agreed but I believe that the slots and table games attract different types of customers. I still strongly believe that the table game folks will not be as comfortable with a computer set up. I can’t imagine myself going to a casino to play virtual dice or roulette. But maybe that’s just me.
 

Lil Tuna

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Electronic poker tables in casinos might be the only thing to stop me from playing in a casino (that, and a global pandemic).

I’m never going to trust a third party that benefits from bigger pots (more rake) to run a electronic poker room. Even if it’s legislated and regulated there will be loopholes and properties will run afoul of the regulations and push the limits of the legislated operation. It’s in their best interest to do so.
It’s already happening in card rooms with dealers, It’s called the “Deck Mate 2”.
 

dennis63

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I don't see chips, cards and dice going away any time soon. Believe me, casino officials know that these things are part of the appeal of sitting at a table.

The pandemic will end, and the hysteria and unnecessary things being done in the name of safety will ebb.
 

Indyscammer

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Indiana finally passed into law last January to allow cards and dice for table games in the land locked (non-riverboat) casinos. Electronic blackjack is completely non-random in my limited experience and poker just isn’t interesting without cards and chips.

The law was finally changed at the loud lobbying of the land based casinos because they were not competitive with casinos with cards and dice.

Of course Covid hit right after so I don’t know if poker rooms have opened using cards yet or not. Indiana Grand was planning July opening last year. I haven’t checked.

Cards, chips, or no play for me.
 

RivieraDanny

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I don't see chips, cards and dice going away any time soon. Believe me, casino officials know that these things are part of the appeal of sitting at a table.

The pandemic will end, and the hysteria and unnecessary things being done in the name of safety will ebb.
I agree with ya there on the "pandemic" situation. And only for discussion and speculation I for one cant wait to get on the Ecraps table again. They have the excitement level and the like! The main worry I've heard from staff is Jobs. The eCraps table no longer needs a 4+ man crew and payout mistakes are eliminated. I'm in the 50 something crowd and definitely of the staff side of the egame issue and the chipper side of the issue, however, money talks! With just under 300 craps tables between the strip and downtown las Vegas that's (Raw data) 900 man spots time 3 shifts that's 2700 jobs. Lets say that the open rate is 50%thats 1300 jobs less the 1 dealer that remains so -300 that's 1000 jobs. Money talks. 2200X1000=2.2M work hours X $15 pressing NV min wage = $33,000,000 ill leave out the benefits calculations. Ill also give you back 8 million in the joints that leave the old tables in for us "old" guys and the "Whales", but the millennials eat this eShit up . That's 25 Million per year savings. The rough cost of the units is 150K so that is $45M so, that a 2 year payoff if bought outright, which most will lease with a service contract and write off the cost. These are the conversations being had, plain and simple, and that's just Craps (and crap for chippers) where they actually make money. The profitability of poker rooms in the casinos is an issue for a whole separate thread. Ill leave out chip inventory and maintenance/replacement for 300 craps tables as +/-. The kids coming behind us older guys don't care how, as long as its exciting! PS: @dennis63 ready for orders soon??
 
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RivieraDanny

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viet rounder

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I agree with ya there on the "pandemic" situation. And only for discussion and speculation I for one cant wait to get on the Ecraps table again. They have the excitement level and the like! The main worry I've heard from staff is Jobs. The eCraps table no longer needs a 4+ man crew and payout mistakes are eliminated. I'm in the 50 something crowd and definitely of the staff side of the egame issue and the chipper side of the issue, however, money talks! With just under 300 craps tables between the strip and downtown las Vegas that's (Raw data) 900 man spots time 3 shifts that's 2700 jobs. Lets say that the open rate is 50%thats 1300 jobs less the 1 dealer that remains so -300 that's 1000 jobs. Money talks. 2200X1000=2.2M work hours X $15 pressing NV min wage = $33,000,000 ill leave out the benefits calculations. Ill also give you back 8 million in the joints that leave the old tables in for us "old" guys and the "Whales", but the millennials eat this eShit up . That's 25 Million per year savings. The rough cost of the units is 150K so that is $45M so, that a 2 year payoff if bought outright, which most will lease with a service contract and write off the cost. These are the conversations being had, plain and simple, and that's just Craps (and crap for chippers) where they actually make money. The profitability of poker rooms in the casinos is an issue for a whole separate thread. Ill leave out chip inventory and maintenance/replacement for 300 craps tables as +/-. The kids coming behind us older guys don't care how, as long as its exciting! PS: @dennis63 ready for orders soon??

But I assume that these are strictly savings numbers and are under the assumption that revenue would remain the same in both the old and new eCrap scenario. If that's the case there is NO DOUBT that money savings would favor the new system. However, I can't image the level of interest/revenue would remain the same if things are converted to the new eCrap system. The appeal (at least for me) wouldn't be the same or even exist.
 

RivieraDanny

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But I assume that these are strictly savings numbers and are under the assumption that revenue would remain the same in both the old and new eCrap scenario. If that's the case there is NO DOUBT that money savings would favor the new system. However, I can't image the level of interest/revenue would remain the same if things are converted to the new eCrap system. The appeal (at least for me) wouldn't be the same or even exist.
IMHO Its not about us... its about the upcoming Egeneration who doesn't care. plus you still throw the bones! Ok OFF TO WORK! HAVE A GREAT DAY ALL!!!!!
 

ekricket

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I agree with ya there on the "pandemic" situation. And only for discussion and speculation I for one cant wait to get on the Ecraps table again. They have the excitement level and the like! The main worry I've heard from staff is Jobs. The eCraps table no longer needs a 4+ man crew and payout mistakes are eliminated. I'm in the 50 something crowd and definitely of the staff side of the egame issue and the chipper side of the issue, however, money talks! With just under 300 craps tables between the strip and downtown las Vegas that's (Raw data) 900 man spots time 3 shifts that's 2700 jobs. Lets say that the open rate is 50%thats 1300 jobs less the 1 dealer that remains so -300 that's 1000 jobs. Money talks. 2200X1000=2.2M work hours X $15 pressing NV min wage = $33,000,000 ill leave out the benefits calculations. Ill also give you back 8 million in the joints that leave the old tables in for us "old" guys and the "Whales", but the millennials eat this eShit up . That's 25 Million per year savings. The rough cost of the units is 150K so that is $45M so, that a 2 year payoff if bought outright, which most will lease with a service contract and write off the cost. These are the conversations being had, plain and simple, and that's just Craps (and crap for chippers) where they actually make money. The profitability of poker rooms in the casinos is an issue for a whole separate thread. Ill leave out chip inventory and maintenance/replacement for 300 craps tables as +/-. The kids coming behind us older guys don't care how, as long as its exciting! PS: @dennis63 ready for orders soon??
you also have to put up with all those employees shit and sick calls and daughter has a dental appointment (edit...) it’s like whooo what was that did you see that shiny thing fly by it’s like the casinos don’t care (edit) people know what the thing that you do when you go to the casino and deal the cards and th(edit) 400% of the time no one know wow it’s cold here I’m drinking coffee so I’m typing fast man there is a lot of snow here I’ve got to take a picture ...... sorry it’s blurry i was in a hurry haha I made a poem hit me up if you have questions I gave quests too



2939AB67-362E-4A7B-82D2-8FCCD72736CD.jpeg
 

viet rounder

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There’s lots of problems when dealing with employees; salary, benefits, work ethics.... but the biggest of them all is dealing with the labour union.
 

RivieraDanny

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you also have to put up with all those employees shit and sick calls and daughter has a dental appointment (edit...) it’s like whooo what was that did you see that shiny thing fly by it’s like the casinos don’t care (edit) people know what the thing that you do when you go to the casino and deal the cards and th(edit) 400% of the time no one know wow it’s cold here I’m drinking coffee so I’m typing fast man there is a lot of snow here I’ve got to take a picture ...... sorry it’s blurry i was in a hurry haha I made a poem hit me up if you have questions I gave quests too



View attachment 617475
5E938C64-17CF-4BAE-90D0-07AAC253C3AD.jpeg
Same view from my seat. Yuk. But back in Vegas soon!
 

Taghkanic

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If a casino's electronic poker table is rigged, it could only be rigged to advantage some other player, not the house.

I don’t think it would be worth a casino’s while to rig an electronic poker game. But I could see scenarios where rigging could advantage the house. For example, if the turn were more frequently an action card than a natural deal, that would build bigger pots and likely lead to more rake.

Again, I don’t think they’d do it. But.
 
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