Car needs fixed - need advice (2 Viewers)

I worked in the auto repair industry for the first 10 years of my adult life, plus I'm on my second Honda Pilot so I know a bit about Honda engines. Here's my assessment:

Basically, a P0302 code is an engine misfire on the 2nd cylinder. The fact that the SES (service engine soon) light was blinking is a clear indicator that the misfire was happening at that moment.

A solid SES light means that the problem has been detected by the PCM (on-board computer) but not necessarily occurring at that moment.

If the problem was severe enough to cause drivability issues and the blinking SES light was present, chances are oil is leaking into the #2 combustion chamber in high enough volume to foul the plug. Keep in mind a little oil seepage is normal - engines typically burn a quart or more over the course of 3-5000 miles and many do so by design. Especially on vehicles that are more than a couple years old.

I can't really comment on the cost of the repair, but it does seem a bit on the high side. This might have to do with rising labor costs, supply chain issues, etc. I don't know if you're in a large city with many options, but if you are, I'd suggest looking for an independent repair shop that specializes in Japanese imports and seek a second quote.

I disagree with our self-proclaimed PCF redneck Mr. @Ben8257 that changing the plugs and wires will get you by. If it's leaking oil bad enough to foul the plugs to the point of a blinking SES light... putting a band-aid on it might buy you a little time but it's by no means going to be a long term solution. It may only get you by for a week or two before the issue resurfaces. Or it might not do anything of the problem is severe enough.

Lastly, as to the timing belt recommendation... Honda scheduled maintenance recommends replacement of the timing belt/tensioner/water pump at 100k miles. If it's never been replaced, it's a legit recommendation. Most Honda engines are 'interference engines', meaning a timing belt failure can result in sever internal engine damage. As to how that service dovetails into the other recommended repair, I don't know. I'd suggest consulting a 3rd party for a neutral opinion.

Best of luck!
 
Yeah, BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Porsche are such crappy cars compared to the average Chev, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Ford, Mercury or Dodge ( oh, wait, half of those brands either don't exist anymore or they gave up trying to make cars and only produce trucks).

Sure, VW crapped the bed with some of their small Diesels, but in general I'd take a German made car over a US made car any day of the week.

And you're right, they do make better beer (and schnitzengruben) than you can find in America as well!
:sneaky:
Lol wasn't trying to say they're crappy. Have seen alot of the smaller diesels have issue after issue though and the expense to fix them, I could buy 2 or 3 "average" vehicles
FWIW I don't think much of anything on any car is made in America lol most everything is made in mexico or china and "assembled" in the US
However, I would drive a 60s or 70s muscle car over any of those brands any day lol
 
I just gotta say this community rocks. Thank you to everyone helping me out and putting in their two cents.

Also, I’m gonna need to keep those cents, this is gonna be expensive either way haha
If the cost stays up there check out Modestneeds.org and see if you qualify for a grant. They specialize in just this sort of thing. Small grants to help with an unexpected bill or emergency that threatens your financial stability.
 
We do this repair 3 times a week. There is a specific Honda bulletin on the repair bc it’s so frequent. A bulletin is just a FAQ/guideline to repair a common problem.

Your engine has VCM. 6 cyl shut down to 4 to conserve fuel. However, when it shuts down to 4 cyl, it’s common for oil to dump into the combustion chamber, hence your spark plugs covered in oil.

It’s damn near an engine rebuild. About half the engine. You also prob don’t need coils and that could save you a couple hundred dollars.

As others mentioned, the labor on the timing belt should be significant reduced. We charge 2 hours bc you still have some work to do.

I’d give Honda Consumer Affairs. This is a known issue. They will most likely participate IF you bought the vehicle at a honda dealer or ever service the vehicle at a honda dealer. Hence the benefit of a franchise dealer > independent shop. Even if you haven’t done repairs with them give them a call and be prepared to show precious maintenance records. The number is 800-999-1009.

The engine rebuild is a 10 hour job + timing belt 2 hours. Labor should be right around $1,000 if your getting a good deal at a Honda dealership.

Also ask for 15-20% off parts. Dealers have the margins to discount 10-20% generally on parts. 10% on engines 20% everything else.

Again Honda could help out big time bc there is a bulletin. Id expect them to participate. Wherever you did your previous oil changes call them and they will have those records. I did run your VIN but the bulletin wasn’t listed. But again it’s a common issue I think Honda will help.

As mentioned in this thread if you change out the plugs and want to go somewhere else, it will probably buy you a few weeks.
 
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Lol wasn't trying to say they're crappy. Have seen alot of the smaller diesels have issue after issue though and the expense to fix them, I could buy 2 or 3 "average" vehicles
FWIW I don't think much of anything on any car is made in America lol most everything is made in mexico or china and "assembled" in the US
However, I would drive a 60s or 70s muscle car over any of those brands any day lol
A girl I was with a long long time ago had a super arrogant brother who was always bragging about the superior German engineering of his vw Jetta. How the Germans had a higher level of quality control and made sure everything was done right. One day she got fed up and went out to his car, pulled the vin from it, and found out it was built in Mexico. Such a good day.

I know that people can run some cars, especially a bunch of German diesels for hundreds of thousands of miles and the fans of them can and sometimes are extremely devoted, but sometimes it seems like a cult. I know theoretically how cars work, I know conceptually how an ic engine works, how a transmission works, and how a differential works, but I don’t know shit about working on them. What I know is find a mechanic you can trust, build a relationship with them, find a manufacturer you are happy with, do some research so you have an idea of what you are getting yourself into, and go from there.

To circle back to the main thread, it’s pretty obvious the diagnosis could be right and could be wrong, the costs could be right, could be wrong. Your opinion obviously was something seemed amiss, and you asked for a second opinion from us idiots on the internet. Us idiots on the internet’s second opinion was “yeah, seems like it might be suspect, get a second opinion on diagnosis and costs”, so yeah, seems like the best course of action.
 
I'll never own a vw again.
I hated the car, owning it was miserable.
Now you tell me!

My Alfa lease ran out in May, and I was a bit bored anyway without a manual transmission, so I picked up my first ever VW, a new 2021 GTI Autobahn with some brake and suspension pieces from the R. Oh, yeah, and I put a Borla S exhaust catback on it right away. Sweet sound!

Back to having fun with three pedals -- a couple of autocrosses and a track day at Sebring.

Not as fast on the straights as the Alfa, but more driver involvement in the twisties. Only problem so far is that the sunroof sliding sunshield doesn't like to stay closed under hard acceleration.

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I'll never own a vw again.

I hated the car, owning it was miserable.
Ahh, you just owned the wrong one - lol. VW’s are great little cars. But I certainly understand your experience and therefore your position - for sure.

A huge downside to VW’s is the cost to repair. It’s basically the same as an Audi, for something that has been “de-engineered” - lol.

The diesel’s were a fiasco.
A girl I was with a long long time ago had a super arrogant brother who was always bragging about the superior German engineering of his vw Jetta. How the Germans had a higher level of quality control and made sure everything was done right. One day she got fed up and went out to his car, pulled the vin from it, and found out it was built in Mexico. Such a good day.

I know that people can run some cars, especially a bunch of German diesels for hundreds of thousands of miles and the fans of them can and sometimes are extremely devoted, but sometimes it seems like a cult. I know theoretically how cars work, I know conceptually how an ic engine works, how a transmission works, and how a differential works, but I don’t know shit about working on them. What I know is find a mechanic you can trust, build a relationship with them, find a manufacturer you are happy with, do some research so you have an idea of what you are getting yourself into, and go from there.

To circle back to the main thread, it’s pretty obvious the diagnosis could be right and could be wrong, the costs could be right, could be wrong. Your opinion obviously was something seemed amiss, and you asked for a second opinion from us idiots on the internet. Us idiots on the internet’s second opinion was “yeah, seems like it might be suspect, get a second opinion on diagnosis and costs”, so yeah, seems like the best course of action.
There are certainly tiers to the German engineering to be sure. VW and the Jetta specifically being the lower end of the chain, you end up with cost/bean counter trade-offs.

VW’s are basically rebadged Audi A4’s, there is a tremendous amount of platform sharing across the lines. Most VW’s here are made in Mexico, some are made in Germany (IE Golf R’s are made in Germany).

That said, take the VW R, Audio R, Mercedes AMG lines and the engineering is generally superior- lol. The lower lines have the lineage of the high end lines but with cost/bean counter trade offs.
 
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Okay update,

I negotiated the price down to $3200 out the door for everything.

I then (per the great advice of @doublebooyah85) called Honda consumer affairs to ask for assistance because this is a known issue in Honda odyssey’s - so much so that they offer extended warranties to anyone with a 2011-13 odyssey with this same issue. Guess what year mine is… yup 2014.

So long story short. The bill might come down more but hard to say.

If they end up offering an extended warranty for the 2014 vehicles too then I’ll get a full refund for this work.

Fingers crossed this all works out.

Thanks again for all your help everyone, I’ll keep y’all updated

-Dan
 

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