Can you help my with this "EP" Crest & Seal and MD-90 ZigZag chips molds? (1 Viewer)

alcs90

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Hi. I want to know if you can help me with this doubts I have about some chips I own. I'm looking information about this chips, because I already own 4 different colors chips of this. I live in Ensenada, Baja California, and I know this chips was made for the Hotel and Casino Playa Ensenada, what was build in 1930 by American and Mexican interests and was a luxury and fancy casino and hotel in Baja California, México, but the 1929 crack and the end of the Volstad act in 1933 make the business impossible. One of the heavy stockholders of the company was Jerome Utley, a very rich contractor of Detroit, Michigan, constructor of General Motors Corporation there, and I think maybe he knew in any way George P. Weinbrenner Jr., owner of B. C. Wills and Co. in Detroit, Michigan, and he could order the chips from that company. The Initials are EP (Ensenada Playa). I know this chips are the Crest & Seal mold and this picture are from the book of Kregg's Guide to the records of The United States Playing Card Co.

Well, my questions is:
This chips was fabricated by B. C. Wills and Co. himself or was made by the United States Playing Card Company, USPC?
In the picture it shows the number "22,800", is that the quantity of the chips ordered? or have any other meaning?
The date "July 23, 1930" is the date when the chips was ordered or the date when they was ended and delivered?
What about the molds? I still doesn't undertand if the owners of the molds was B. C. Wills and Co. and USPC was the one who fabricated them or if B. C. Wills and Co. fabricated their own chips by themselfs.
Any one of you have the book "Kregg's Guide to the records of The United States Playing Card Co."? I don't know how to get it and I would like to know in which page this picture is and if it have additional information of the chips in the book or just the pictures of the records.
Do you think is any way to know what kind of value in dollars had each color in the casinos at that time?


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I have also this chip what is from the same casino and hotel too and it have in the center the offical logo of the place.
I want to know if this chip is the MD-90 ZigZag. I look in internet and it says this mold was made maybe by "Portland Billiard Ball Company" (or maybe "Burt Company" before it change of name) of Portland, Maine or maybe by Noll and Co. in Pasadena, CA.
Do you think its any chance this kind of chip could be made by B. C. Wills and Co. too?
The Casino in the hotel was operating just from October 1930- to 1936 or 1937, so I don't think the hotel company ordered some more new chips aftter that date, because the game was banned in Mexico in 1935 by presidential order, but the casino in Ensenada still was operating until some point between 1936 and 1937. I can imagine if the main casino chips was made by B. C. Wills and Co. or USPC, maybe this too. But i'm not sure.
What kind of value in dollars do you think this kind of chip could had in the casino?

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By last, i have this picture of this both chips that looks they are from the same Casino, but i can't identify which kind of mold it's and I don't have any idea of what company could made them. I want to think they are from B. C. Wills and Co. or USPC too. But i don't know any information of this chips.
Do you have any idea of what mold could this be?
Can you imagine what size could it have? for me i think, maybe, the size is smaller than the Crest & Seal and MD-90 ZigZag molds, but i'm not sure.
Do you think these chips could have been made in another other color or just int his yellow and blue version?

What kind of value, in dollars, do you think this kind of chip coud had in the casino?

Fichas.jpg

Thank you very much. I will apreciate any kind of information you could kindly provide me. I really don't know anything of the casino chips world, but i'm doing some research of this chips because the Casino and Hotel history is really fascinating. Thank you all very much and i'm sorry for my english, i'm still learning.
 

CrazyEddie

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Welcome! Excellent questions, and it's great to see how much research you've done on your own already!

First thing to know is that B.C. Wills did not manufacture any chips themselves. In fact, for vintage chips like this, in almost all cases they were manufactured by the United States Playing Card Company (USPCC) if they were from the early 1940s or earlier, or by the Burt Company (which previously was named the Portland Billiard Ball Company) if they were made later.

Companies such as B.C. Wills, H.C. Edwards, and Langworthy & Co. were sellers of poker chips but not manufacturers of them. The chips were made by USPCC or Burt for these resellers/distributors to sell to their own customers. Each reseller had their own distinctive edge molds that USPCC and Burt used to make chips exclusively for that reseller; in most cases the reseller owned the molds, but it was still USPCC or Burt that held the molds and used them to make chips.

I could take a stab at answering some of your questions, but I'll defer to @Jeff in Iowa . Jeff has done a lot of research on these types of vintage chips and may have the answers at his fingertips. There are some other very knowledgeable folk around as well, and perhaps one of them will chime in: @gmunny @Chipenhagen @apple102 @mtl mile end @BGinGA @GianThaMan
 

alcs90

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Welcome! Excellent questions, and it's great to see how much research you've done on your own already!

First thing to know is that B.C. Wills did not manufacture any chips themselves. In fact, for vintage chips like this, in almost all cases they were manufactured by the United States Playing Card Company (USPCC) if they were from the early 1940s or earlier, or by the Burt Company (which previously was named the Portland Billiard Ball Company) if they were made later.

Companies such as B.C. Wills, H.C. Edwards, and Langworthy & Co. were sellers of poker chips but not manufacturers of them. The chips were made by USPCC or Burt for these resellers/distributors to sell to their own customers. Each reseller had their own distinctive edge molds that USPCC and Burt used to make chips exclusively for that reseller; in most cases the reseller owned the molds, but it was still USPCC or Burt that held the molds and used them to make chips.

I could take a stab at answering some of your questions, but I'll defer to @Jeff in Iowa . Jeff has done a lot of research on these types of vintage chips and may have the answers at his fingertips. There are some other very knowledgeable folk around as well, and perhaps one of them will chime in: @gmunny @Chipenhagen @apple102 @mtl mile end @BGinGA @GianThaMan
Thank you very much. That information about the USPCC as the offical manufacture will help me a lot and make disappear some doubts i had about it. I hope the persons you tag can provide me some more information about the chips. I really thank you for your kind answer.
 
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