Tourney Bounty Tournament Surrender/Rebuys (1 Viewer)

Kentucky

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I ran my first STT with Bounties on Saturday and it went pretty well (Hero bagged three bounties :cool ) and they did spread the money around which was what I wanted - more than half the people won at least something even if they didn't cover the buy-in. I was encouraging rebuys for the early busters, but this group was very casual/social and there was only one taker. The third guy out bought back in for a full buy-in, including another bounty chip. All good.

Although it didn't happen with this group I'd like to offer/encourage a surrender a short stack option as we get to the rebuy cut off point should I find some splashier friends. In this situation what do you guys like to do? Do you charge the full buy in and give out a double bounty chip - where this guy is now worth 2x the regular bounty, or charge the rebuy minus the bounty fee (in our case that would be a $15 rebuy if you waived the $5 bounty). This player hasn't busted out so still has his original chip.

Maybe waiving the bounty fee is more straight forward but it does seem to leave cash on the table. I kind of like the idea of doubling the guy up, but maybe making him a bigger target isn't fair. Maybe there should be a downside to having deep pockets...

Anyway, interested to see what you all do.
 

doublebooyah85

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We do it as follows;

1) You can forfeit only at the end of the last level before rebuys are over. Essentially halftime of your home tourney.

2) The bounty chip is also forfeited, so a knockout is only worth 1 bounty.
 

Kentucky

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We do it as follows;

1) You can forfeit only at the end of the last level before rebuys are over. Essentially halftime of your home tourney.

2) The bounty chip is also forfeited, so a knockout is only worth 1 bounty.
So what happens to the cash associated with the original bounty when the chip is forfeited?
 

DontKnowWhen

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FWIW in the few home tourneys I've played in, you could surrender a short stack up to the rebuy level. You pay full rebuy and get a second bounty chip.
 

JustinInMN

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Yeah I think carrying over the bounty and subtracting that from the reentry is the simplest and fairest way to handle a surrender.

A less fair but more gambol (as in keeping the money in play) approach is that surrendered bounties go in the first pot after the break. This avoids the issue of double targeting and someone can win cash on the first pot.
 

OfficerLovejoy

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A less fair but more gambol (as in keeping the money in play) approach is that surrendered bounties go in the first pot after the break. This avoids the issue of double targeting and someone can win cash on the first pot.
This would encourage a multi way all in first hand after the rebuy period is over. Potentially resulting in 3 players having to watch for the next 2 hours while one lucky sob is the massive Chipleader with 3+x bounties coasting towards the win.
Doesn't sound fun for most of your players.
 
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JustinInMN

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This would encourage a multi way all in first hand after the rebuy period is over. Potentially resulting in 3 players having to watch for the next 2 hours while one lucky sob is the massive Chipleader with 3+x bounties coasting towards the win.
Doesn't sound fun for most of your players.
I didn't say it was a good idea. :).
 

JustinInMN

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This would encourage a multi way all in first hand after the rebuy period is over. Potentially resulting in 3 players having to watch for the next 2 hours while one lucky sob is the massive Chipleader with 3+x bounties coasting towards the win.
Doesn't sound fun for most of your players.
Here's a less bad idea for keeping the bounty in play, surrendered bounties get moved to the main prize pool and are either 1) added to first place, 2) divided among all cash places, or 3) create a new cash place.
 

Kentucky

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Thanks for all these ideas - I woke up this morning with another.

I think I’m going to try a Bad Beat Jackpot with the left overs. I want to spread the money around as the crowd is super casual and think this will appeal.
 

philhut

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Bounty tournaments cannot allow for additional bounty chips after the initial purchase and players who were knocked out must now be excluded from the bounty pool or things get confusing/conflicted and defeats the purpose of knocking out players.....also removes part of the target for players rebuying. I prefer a freeze out bounty game for this reason as it is simpler with rebuy tournaments instead playing a "high hand" or "bad beat" progressive or something if insisting on adding "stuff".

For casual players I found the most significant factors were
- time the tournament started
- length of the tournament (greater than 2-3 hours being tough for casual people)
- comfort of chairs/ease of access to location
- a friendly crowd/group
- food/drinks


*if playing a tournament with bounties and rebuys I give busted players who rebuy a "All-in" chip instead of a bounty chip.....lol the "chip of shame" as one group dubbed it.
 

Kentucky

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Tell me more about why you think it’s confusing. I’m trying to understand what I’m missing. In my view you bust out someone wins your bounty, you full-buy back in and get another chip for someone else to win.

(Sorry if this sounds snarky- It’s not intended to be- I’m trying to learn.)

Also Lol at the Chip Of Shame
 

Ocharacato

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In our tournaments we play optional bounties, they are forfeited only after the buy back time is gone, so they are only forfeited when we are 100% felted… and they are given to the person that won that hand, and they are for them to keep, so they won’t lose the win bounties anymore, if somebody felts someone that has more than one they will only forfeit one bounty…. Works as an incentive to recover some money even if they are not in the top 5-7 in the tournament.
 

DontKnowWhen

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I too would like to know why it is confusing.

Perhaps @Chris Manzoni could chime in here. In his video he describes how he runs a bounty tourney. Basically everyone gets a bounty chip with every buy-in. He is asked specifically in the comments about rebuys and I believe his answer is yes you get another bounty chip when you rebuy. You surrender one bounty chip to whoever knocks you out and each bounty chip is worth the $X that you charged for it. If you have collected extra chips when you are knocked out, you will exchange those for cash.

While most will not earn back their buy-in, this helps "spread the wealth" around and even people who didn't make the money have a chance to leave with a little something. And it's not that complicated to run ;)
 

Ocharacato

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In our tournaments we play optional bounties, they are forfeited only after the buy back time is gone, so they are only forfeited when we are 100% felted… and they are given to the person that won that hand, and they are for them to keep, so they won’t lose the win bounties anymore, if somebody felts someone that has more than one they will only forfeit one bounty…. Works as an incentive to recover some money even if they are not in the top 5-7 in the tournament.
Forgot… only people with bounty can capture another bounty(íes)
 

doublebooyah85

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Tell me more about why you think it’s confusing. I’m trying to understand what I’m missing. In my view you bust out someone wins your bounty, you full-buy back in and get another chip for someone else to win.

(Sorry if this sounds snarky- It’s not intended to be- I’m trying to learn.)

Also Lol at the Chip Of Shame

Agree?
 

philhut

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As for confusion I think it may depend how you pay our your bounty game. I can think of three version I have played

Version 1
bounty chip sold for (lets say $5 as example) then when won by another player by felting them that winning player holds the bounty chip and is paid out ($5) per bounty chip won up to a certain point in the tourney.......

Version 2
bounty chip sold for (lets also say $5) but in this game bounties are won by players eliminating others and winning the felted player chips (with others being forfeit) then at the set point in the tournament the player with the most total bounty chips wins the total bounty progressive

Version 3
like version 2 except that bounties won by others who are felted are also transferred to a eliminating player still in possession of a bounty chip.

For a fun game version 1 makes the most sense with version 2 being a runner up for some incentive at action without creating giant targets on successful players. Version 3 is viscous and changes how players bet/raise depending on chip stacks and amounts in the bounty pool.
 

philhut

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Tell me more about why you think it’s confusing. I’m trying to understand what I’m missing. In my view you bust out someone wins your bounty, you full-buy back in and get another chip for someone else to win.

(Sorry if this sounds snarky- It’s not intended to be- I’m trying to learn.)

Also Lol at the Chip Of Shame
For example lets say "Steve" is an "Amazing" friend and poker player.....he buys in more than anyone at the table again and again...The game is a two table game and you are not sitting at "Steve's" table and he gives everyone a bounty chip because as we all know the fish are for feeding upon.....

- is this fair to "Steve"?
- what about the players who don't get a chance to also take advantage of "Steve's" "Amazing" poker skills?
- What if "Steve" is dumping chips to "Larry" along with bounty chips in a bounty game where the most chips win the total progressive?

I prefer only 1x bounty, once you lose your head that is it. Any rebuys afterwards are just for the main pot in a tourney.
 

JustinInMN

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Bounty tournaments cannot allow for additional bounty chips after the initial purchase and players who were knocked out must now be excluded from the bounty pool or things get confusing/conflicted and defeats the purpose of knocking out players
I think they can. Usually players that re-enter are treated exactly like a new entry and a new bounty.

*if playing a tournament with bounties and rebuys I give busted players who rebuy a "All-in" chip instead of a bounty chip.....lol the "chip of shame" as one group dubbed it.
That is funny though.

Version 1
bounty chip sold for (lets say $5 as example) then when won by another player by felting them that winning player holds the bounty chip and is paid out ($5) per bounty chip won up to a certain point in the tourney.......

Version 2
bounty chip sold for (lets also say $5) but in this game bounties are won by players eliminating others and winning the felted player chips (with others being forfeit) then at the set point in the tournament the player with the most total bounty chips wins the total bounty progressive

Version 3
like version 2 except that bounties won by others who are felted are also transferred to a eliminating player still in possession of a bounty chip.
I think when most people here think bounty tournament they think Version 1. I'm not sure I have heard of version 2 or 3 before, and I am not sure how fond of those I would be.

For example lets say "Steve" is an "Amazing" friend and poker player.....he buys in more than anyone at the table again and again...The game is a two table game and you are not sitting at "Steve's" table and he gives everyone a bounty chip because as we all know the fish are for feeding upon.....
To some degree this is a factor in any tournament and random seating should make it so everyone at least has a chance to draw the same table. You also could make random seating apply to reentry, though in practice, a player busting out will often have to draw the same table because that table is the one that is short players. You also could cap re-entries (I usually cap at 3, it almost never comes into play.)

I prefer only 1x bounty, once you lose your head that is it. Any rebuys afterwards are just for the main pot in a tourney.
If you prefer it that way, it's fine, but that's a far different statement than "bounty tournaments cannot allow for additional bounty chips." Either way is "fair" in my book so long as the rules are clear.
 

Frogzilla

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Let’s say it’s a $50 buyin, $30 pp $20 bounty.

Reentries/rebuys, if allowed, are $50 and you get a new bounty. Whoever knocked you out pockets the original $20. Doing it any other way seems insane to me

Surrenders I’ve seen done a couple different ways, one would be you keep your $20 bounty and only pay $30 to surrender your stack. I personally just charge $50, the normal amount for rebuy, but all $50 goes into the prize pool.
 
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