Basic woodworking question (1 Viewer)

[bivey]

it's this time of year when I have some time off and the snow piles up and I go stir crazy.

This winter I have decided to make my first table. I have no experience with power tools which are generally frowned upon in my profession. I would like to make a nice arc as I cut plywood and am curious as to which tool will make a nice arc. I can trace an arc and use a jigsaw, but I know there are more precise methods. Any help would be appreciated.

Please be specific as I have a very small vocabulary in this realm.

 

[derekdd23]

it's this time of year when I have some time off and the snow piles up and I go stir crazy.

This winter I have decided to make my first table. I have no experience with power tools which are generally frowned upon in my profession. I would like to make a nice arc as I cut plywood and am curious as to which tool will make a nice arc. I can trace an arc and use a jigsaw, but I know there are more precise methods. Any help would be appreciated.

Please be specific as I have a very small vocabulary in this realm.

Snow? its like 70 here in NY!

 

[RowdyRawhide]

Most of the time a router on a circle jig is used. I think most people use a 1/4 in spiral upcut bit in the router to make the cut. You can make your own jig or buy one. I have also seen homemade circle jigs for jig saws made as well. Probably check out pefectmancave.com for some tutorials since we lost the pokertableforum. And maybe pokertables.com?? Can't remeber the address of the top of my head.

 

[Payback]

^^^ best way to do things. Be careful if you haven't used a router before and remember to make a few passes if using thicker plywood. I have a Lewin jig that I like, but as noted you could make one yourself that would serve the same purpose.

 

[Meddler2]

As noted above by Payback make a few passes; which means set your router bit depth shallow. This prevents your router bit from overheating, dulling, and makes a cleaner cut. If you're uncomfortable with a router or have little experience, a jigsaw will work just fine. Just go real slow. any slight imperfections on the outer cut will be covered by your rail and if you're not doing a racetrack style table, you're good to go. Practice on some scrap first though.

Youtube is your friend. Lots of good tutorials on how to set up arc for router and jigsaw.

 

[links_slayer]

+1 for router/circle jig combo

 

[Trihonda]

Using a "plunge" router is best, if you have one. It allows you to cut out shallow arc into the plywood, and then make an easy plunge adjustment to make another pass (slightly deeper). I seriously make 4-5 passes for each 3/4" thick ply arc cut. It will make your cuts smoother, faster, and will create less bit wear (and lessen the chance of bit breakage).

Another trick I use: My jig has a pivot point that revolves around a 1/4" shank that can be placed in the surface (I simply align all the plywood boards on top of each other (usually screwing them all together in the middle. I then find my arc pivot point, then drill a 1/4" hole in the center of all 2-3 boards. I then use a regular #2 screwdriver inserted through the jig pivot point and the plywood hole. I then make all my arc cuts on one side, and it's easy to switch the entire operation back and forth from one side of the table to the other, since your arc pivot points are now set for all the boards. I've used this technique successfully for many tables, and it works slick. I'm probably not explaining it very well... I've done tutorials on this, but I think they're no longer around (Poker Table Forum). I might have some pics, which I'll try to find and post here.

 

[T_Chan]

it's this time of year when I have some time off and the snow piles up and I go stir crazy.

This winter I have decided to make my first table. I have no experience with power tools which are generally frowned upon in my profession. I would like to make a nice arc as I cut plywood and am curious as to which tool will make a nice arc. I can trace an arc and use a jigsaw, but I know there are more precise methods. Any help would be appreciated.

Please be specific as I have a very small vocabulary in this realm.

The easiest way is to draw an arc and cut it out with a jigsaw. The edges will be somewhat rough even with the most steady hands. Lots of sanding will help round out the curves. Plenty of people have built jigsaw cut tables with good results.

You can make a circle jig for your jigsaw to cut smoother arcs, but the blade of a jigsaw will want to flex and wander. It's doable.

A better method is to use a plunge router. As others have mentioned, do several passes using an spiral bit. Upcut works best as it removes chips out of the cut rather than pushing them in, but it will chip the top surface of your plywood so make sure the good side is facing down. 1/4" per pass works good.
Here's a pic of an old jig I used to use. Very cheap.

You can even use just a board. A long piece of 1/4" plywood screwed to the bottom side of your router and the other end screwed to the table at the center point of the arc to make nice smooth curves. Then move the router closer to the pivot point for a shorter radius to make your inside rail cut. This is where the plunger router is better so that you can plunge the router bit right into the plywood. With a fixed base router or a jigsaw you will have to cut a hole first so that you can start your cut.

Borrow any tools you don't have from friends or rent unless you think it's something you'll use again down the road.

 

[atomiktoaster]

I've rip cut to final width first and used a 1/2" straight bit for the ends with good results, too.

 

[Trihonda]

Chan is the man... Advice is solid. Here's my circle jig.

I will add that a jigsaw can do the cuts, the 1/4" built-in gap created by the router bit, greatly AIDS in the finish work, fitment, upholstery, etc.... The jigsaw will never has as nice a flinish.

As simple as the router is, I'd never use a jigsaw. I'd borrow one from a friend, buy, etc...

 

[brains613]

I'm bad at building things, so I just BOUGHT circle jigs. Didn't want to build them and have my measurements be off. Got both from Amazon. The Lewin router compass for the big curves. And the Japer 400 for the smaller circles - cupholders and such. They were both easy to use, and I feel like I got full value out of them.

Five 8-foot ovals using the Lewin

50 cupholders and 10 rings using the Jasper

Plus some random other things using both. I'm also going to use both again in the coming months. Another table and I have a food cart idea I may be exploring.

Lewin link

Jasper link

Edited to add - I was in your shoes. I was terrible with power tools, and I thought things like jigs would give me the best shot at making my table builds into reality. I still struggle with making wood cuts, and so I have others do it for me. But even the guy who cuts for me uses the jigs, plus a router fence for the straight edges. It's a bigger initial investment, true. But I, (and this is true) ruined four different sheets of plywood before I decided to just buy the jigs. That would have paid for both two times over...

 

[Trihonda]

But I, (and this is true) ruined four different sheets of plywood before I decided to just buy the jigs. That would have paid for both two times over...

This right here is the secret to saving money, time, and heartache with any home projects. Plus, the job is typically much better quality with the right tools.

 

[bivey]

Thanks all. I'm having a blast thinking this through. I'm planning on 3/4inch plywood with a raised rail w/ decorative nails. Folding legs so I can put the table away. I'll go the router path and plan on using a jig. Still agonizing over dimensions. I was thinking of trimming the table down to 84" x 42" but I might just go with the 4 x 8 straight up. Rail will be between 4 and 6 inches wide depending on final dimensions. I won't be able to say no to a custom felt and would like to see a Chanman felt inaction.

I'm sure this is going to be a humbling experience for me.

 

[atomiktoaster]

48" is almost universally cautioned against as too wide.

 

[bivey]

48" is almost universally cautioned against as too wide.

What I'm afraid of although having played on Sir Redbelly's wonderful 48 x 96 tables, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. We self deal though so smaller is better.

 

[brains613]

Thanks all. I'm having a blast thinking this through. I'm planning on 3/4inch plywood with a raised rail w/ decorative nails. Folding legs so I can put the table away. I'll go the router path and plan on using a jig. Still agonizing over dimensions. I was thinking of trimming the table down to 84" x 42" but I might just go with the 4 x 8 straight up. Rail will be between 4 and 6 inches wide depending on final dimensions. I won't be able to say no to a custom felt and would like to see a Chanman felt inaction.

I'm sure this is going to be a humbling experience for me.

Unless you're building a 10+1 dedicated dealer table, 48 is too wide. I just made one like that. It's too wide for a self-dealt ten player game. I deal on it using an elevated chair, and I still struggle to pull chips from in front of seats 3-4, 7-8. My other tables, without a dealer position, are 44 wide with a five inch rail, and they're perfect.

 

[brains613]

Are you building from plans? I just built a raised rail table for the first time, and might be able to help you avoid some pitfalls. Start a build thread. Discuss your plan. Irish and Tchan and other helped me a lot, and I still screwed some stuff up. And it was my 7th table build.

 

[Trihonda]

Many build threads have discussed/debated the ideal table size, and I think the most "playable" dimensions are that sweet spot between 42-44" wide, and 90-92" wide. I've had both 42 and 44 wides, and prefer the slightly wider, but it really depends. I also like a wider rail, so it' affects playable surface size. I opted for 5-6" wide rails on most of my FS tables.

As suggested, post your plans/ideas and folks will chime in.

 

[bivey]

We usually play 8 or sometimes 9 handed. 44 by 88 might work well even if a little shorter than some tables.


I started with BYOPT website. I've then moved around to a lot of resources and read as much as I can. Experience is everything and just like I can't read super/system and go pro at the bellagio, I'm going to take my lumps.

I think a build thread is a great idea. I'll start one.

 

[Trihonda]

You can certainly go 88", if that fits your needs more (and you have space restrictions). However, just like we might advise someone to get more chips (for expansion of their game), I'd advise, that IF you have the space, why not make the table a hair longer (around 92-94"). That way, it gives you more room, and IF you happen to host more people, you're not cramped. Also, a larger table will likely hold value a tad better. More people (in general) are interested in 10 person tables, so when/if you decide to let this table go onto a newer owner, you'll have an easier time if it's a tad bigger IMHO.

Merry Christmas.

 

[bivey]

You can certainly go 88", if that fits your needs more (and you have space restrictions). However, just like we might advise someone to get more chips (for expansion of their game), I'd advise, that IF you have the space, why not make the table a hair longer (around 92-94"). That way, it gives you more room, and IF you happen to host more people, you're not cramped. Also, a larger table will likely hold value a tad better. More people (in general) are interested in 10 person tables, so when/if you decide to let this table go onto a newer owner, you'll have an easier time if it's a tad bigger IMHO.

Merry Christmas.

Thanks. Would love hear others' thoughts on this as well.

 

[T_Chan]

Bigger is better if you have the space. Being more cramped isn't fun and I've never heard anyone complain about something being several inches longer

 

[Trihonda]

Bigger is better if you have the space. Being more cramped isn't fun and I've never heard anyone complain about something being several inches longer

Ha ha!!! I see what you did there!

 

[Shanghai Sparky]

If you are apprehensive about the router and jig, use the jig saw, but cut outside the line and then trim down to optimum with a router and circle jig. Use the router against the rotation of the bit; it is easier to control. Remember your safety glasses and gloves. Power tools are not forgiving. I know too many people missing digits from saws and routers.

 

[bivey]

Two questions:

1. What type of router bit do I need?

2. If I use a circular for the straight portions, how do I make the cut widths the same? Doesn't a router leave a pretty wide cut?

Thanks fellas. Total novice here.

 

[Trihonda]

#2, Using a router with an edge guide, is very simple, since you're likely cutting right next to the edge. Using a Circular saw, the cut is as wide as the blade. I'd lean towards making the play surface (inside) edge flush with the arc cuts (for smoother application of the volara and felt). However, Either way, you can smooth things out with sanding. Just keep in mind, that the 1/4" width created by routing is immensely helpful. You'll be wrapping the felt around the play surface, etc... and if there's only a Circ Saw blade width to work with, it's a tighter fit.

I also prefer to staple the felt on the edge of the play surface plywood, rather than stapling it underneath. I think it provides a more finished look under the table, and works with my particular construction methods. I know others may staple underneath, but then take steps to conceal the rough felt edges/staples. In my methods, the staples are concealed between the outter edge of the play surface and the inner edge of the rail lip. Very clean. Now, I hammer in the staples (if they protrude at all), so they don't take up a lot of thickness, but the 1/4" router spacing created is ideal for me. And it just looks cleaner too (more consistent IMHO).

#1, Spiral Up Cut bit. I think it was explained above as well. Draws the debris/sawdust up and out of the cut.

 

[brains613]

Don't bother with changing tools. Just use the router for the straight cuts as well. Use a router fence or other edge guide. You can even just rig something up yourself.

Yes, you need to consider the width of your router bit, which is why you should use the same tool and bit for all the cuts. A spiral upcut bit will do what you need.

"Doesn't a router leave a pretty wide cut?" - Remember, the only thing making the cut is the BIT. So if you use a 3/8 inch wide bit, that's how much wood will be removed with each full pass. Same thing is you use a 1/2 inch bit. You will be creating a 1/2 groove in whatever you cut,

 

[Trihonda]

Yes, you need to consider the width of your router bit, which is why you should use the same tool and bit for all the cuts,

Not sure how precise you are intending to be, but if you're using a 1/2" bit or 1/4" bit, remember to factor this in when calculating your measurements. I personally, do my arc measurements (drawing the exact arc onto the surface), and then simply adjust my jig distance so my bit falls just outside of the line.

 

[bivey]

Thanks guys. Very helpful.

 

[brains613]

Not sure how precise you are intending to be, but if you're using a 1/2" bit or 1/4" bit, remember to factor this in when calculating your measurements. I personally, do my arc measurements (drawing the exact arc onto the surface), and then simply adjust my jig distance so my bit falls just outside of the line.

Agreed. Do this.