Tourney Balancing Late Entries, Rebuys, and On-Time Bonus Chips (1 Viewer)

[justsomedude]

I'm trying to dial in my home tournament setup before my big BBQ game...

I remember when I first started hosting tournies I had late entries, rebuys, addons... the whole shebang. My brother (who's been playing poker forever), used to give me a lot of sh*t and would always say, "You do realize that a tournament has to end, right? You can't just keep adding chips to the table all night."

Now a few years down the hosting road, I'm wondering if my setup of On-Time bonus chips, late entries through Level 4, and rebuys through the first break (Level 6 in my Deepstack structure, which is 250/500 with 50k starting stacks), is overkill.

I'd like to keep the rebuys because it's a good pot builder and keeps people playing while allowing looser/aggressive play early on. And the On-Time chips get folks to show up when they need to. So I'm wondering... is the late entry too much? Does it contradict the On-Time chip bonus? Should I cut it out entirely? Maybe limit it to the 2nd level?

Thoughts / input / concerns are appreciated!

 

[ekricket]

Keep the late entry and rebuy times, lose any bonus chips. It’s like a circus bar tournament when you start giving chips out for everything.

 

[bsdunbar1]

I do all of the above weekly.
Bonus Chip for being on time, Rebuys for the first 3 levels (1 hr) and a 1 time add-on at the first break (1 hr)
About the only thing we do different is if you had a rebuy (we only offer 1 per player), you can't get the add-on. You can do one or the other, not both.
Our structure is 2 tables and about a 4hr tourney.
The players have never complained and I have no plans to change any of it.

Edit: Late entries we allow within the first hour, they are still eligible for 1 rebuy or 1 add-on but don't get the on time bonus chip.

 

[DoubleEagle]

I'm trying to dial in my home tournament setup before my big BBQ game...

I remember when I first started hosting tournies I had late entries, rebuys, addons... the whole shebang. My brother (who's been playing poker forever), used to give me a lot of sh*t and would always say, "You do realize that a tournament has to end, right? You can't just keep adding chips to the table all night."

Now a few years down the hosting road, I'm wondering if my setup of On-Time bonus chips, late entries through Level 4, and rebuys through the first break (Level 6 in my Deepstack structure, which is 250/500 with 50k starting stacks), is overkill.

I'd like to keep the rebuys because it's a good pot builder and keeps people playing while allowing looser/aggressive play early on. And the On-Time chips get folks to show up when they need to. So I'm wondering... is the late entry too much? Does it contradict the On-Time chip bonus? Should I cut it out entirely? Maybe limit it to the 2nd level?

Thoughts / input / concerns are appreciated!

How long are your levels?

 

[justsomedude]

How long are your levels?

They get shorter as the tournament goes on, but averages out to about 22 minutes per level. The tournament overall runs about 8-8.5 hours. This is a bigger/longer event that I only host once a year...

 

[DoubleEagle]

I'm trying to dial in my home tournament setup before my big BBQ game...

I remember when I first started hosting tournies I had late entries, rebuys, addons... the whole shebang. My brother (who's been playing poker forever), used to give me a lot of sh*t and would always say, "You do realize that a tournament has to end, right? You can't just keep adding chips to the table all night."

Now a few years down the hosting road, I'm wondering if my setup of On-Time bonus chips, late entries through Level 4, and rebuys through the first break (Level 6 in my Deepstack structure, which is 250/500 with 50k starting stacks), is overkill.

I'd like to keep the rebuys because it's a good pot builder and keeps people playing while allowing looser/aggressive play early on. And the On-Time chips get folks to show up when they need to. So I'm wondering... is the late entry too much? Does it contradict the On-Time chip bonus? Should I cut it out entirely? Maybe limit it to the 2nd level?

Thoughts / input / concerns are appreciated!

We do several long format (about 9 hours) tournaments per year. In fact, we are having one a week from Sunday. We offer the same options as you do, but not for as long.

The early arrival bonus is important to get people there on time. We start at 1:00 PM with the early arrival bonus cut off at 12:45. The bonus needs to be large enough that people will make the effort to be there in order to get it. Currently, our starting stack is $12,000 plus an early arrival bonus of $3,000 for a total of $15,000. As a result, we will only have one or two late arrivals out of about 30 to 40 entries. Before we had a bonus, everyone showed up right at the time the tournament was to start which meant the tournament could never start on time since we had to deal with the buy-ins and sign-ups.

We allow late arrivals only through the first three levels. All levels are 30 minutes throughout the tournament.

We prefer re-entries to re-buys. Re-entries are offered through the first three levels also. Normally, there will be about between three and eight re-entries.

Good luck with your tourney. Wish I was a bit closer so I could make.

 

[BGinGA]

According to my calculations, I don't see how your event can be expected to end around L21 or so (approx. 7.5 hours play plus breaks) -- even with only 10 players, there will still be 50BB total in play at that point, and that doesn't account for any bonus chips and re-buys. With just 10 players, I would expect the event to end no later than L23, but with 20 players that would extend to L26, and to L28 for 30 players. Those are typical maximum play times, but with added re-buys, it's usually a pretty close approximation (within a level or two, tops).

Personally, I'd keep everything as-is (on-time bonus, late entries, re-buys), but just expect it to run longer than you expect. If indeed lasting 23 levels, that works out to an average blind level of exactly 20 minutes, and the longer it runs, the smaller that average blind level number gets.

I'm not a big fan of late entries, however -- if it were my event, I'd scratch them altogether. Pre-paid late arrivals are fine, but I don't like last-minute and late-arrival surprises, especially for a large tournament.

 

[APatHand]

It seems like the greater the number of options (on-time, late entries, rebuys, add-ons, etc.) the less feasible it is to play AND be a TD.
I want to play, so I try to keep it as simple as possible.
In our bigger tourneys (30+ runners) we always have a dedicated TD and then rotate that resposibility from tourney to tourney.

 

[JustinInMN]

My brother (who's been playing poker forever), used to give me a lot of sh*t and would always say, "You do realize that a tournament has to end, right? You can't just keep adding chips to the table all night."

I like your brother .

I'd like to keep the rebuys because it's a good pot builder and keeps people playing while allowing looser/aggressive play early on.

I agree for these reasons as well. Plus you aren't screwing players who may have come a long way just to get coolerd on hand 3. I like a re-entry period of 1.5-2 hours personally. That pretty much ensures the option of playing that minimum amount of time.

. So I'm wondering... is the late entry too much? Does it contradict the On-Time chip bonus?

I don't think they are necessarily contradictory, but it does raise a curiosity, do you apply the on time bonus to all entries or just the first one to each player?

If it only applies to the first entry then all entries after that point are treated the same.

The one thing I might look at is scrapping add ons. This is a big influx of chips that may juice the pot but is probably the biggest prolonger of the tournament.

Instead go with the surrender and re-enter option at the cutoff.

But that's my only thought. Good luck.

 

[Alex Lundstrum]

I'm wondering if my setup of On-Time bonus chips, late entries through Level 4, and rebuys through the first break (Level 6 in my Deepstack structure, which is 250/500 with 50k starting stacks), is overkill.

My 2¢:
- Rebuy and late entry period should be the same. I treat rebuys and late entries the same except a rebuy retains their seat and can enter on SB if no hands were missed (which there shouldn't be, rebuys must be announced immediately, else it will be treated as late entry with new seat).
- Rebuy/late entry should end when BB is 5-10% of start stack.
- I prefer unlimited rebuys unless the field is expected to have a wide range of skill/bankroll, in which case limited is fine
- On time bonus typically should not exceed 20% of start stack value.
- I prefer add-ons only at the end of rebuy period (or with buy-in if the add-on goes to dealer tips) but I'm not against an "anytime during rebuy period" add-on either.
- Add-on should have a higher chip/$ ratio to entice purchase and build pot

 

[justsomedude]

According to my calculations, I don't see how your event can be expected to end around L21 or so (approx. 7.5 hours play plus breaks) -- even with only 10 players, there will still be 50BB total in play at that point, and that doesn't account for any bonus chips and re-buys. With just 10 players, I would expect the event to end no later than L23, but with 20 players that would extend to L26, and to L28 for 30 players. Those are typical maximum play times, but with added re-buys, it's usually a pretty close approximation (within a level or two, tops).

There's a huge screwball "I just know my players" X-factor that comes into my end-time estimate...

Figuring 21 on-time entries (1.2M) and 4 rebuys (200k) I came up with a total of 1.4M in play (total guesstimate based on past BBQ events). Then, by using prior tournament ends as a gauge, I figured we'll be ending with around 60BBs in play (where the last few players are getting tired, shove-happy, and thinking about their beds). This puts the tourney-end-time at a Big Blind of T23,333, which falls between L22/L23. And factoring in a chop, I then bumped up my predicted end time up a couple levels to cover L20-L22.

Not an exact science, but is usually on the nose for this crew.

 

[Darson]

I think knowing your players is very important and I've had to make a few changes because of some individuals. For example:
- On time bonus doesn't work as the guys don't care for the extra 10% or 20%
- We allow rebuys but limit them to a max of 2 per player (otherwise one guy just keeps buying his way into the money)
- Late entries; (see on time bonus) we always allow this as some people are always late and if they're willing to buy in, they're willing to take the disadvantage that he reduced value of the starting stack implies.

 

[justsomedude]

I think knowing your players is very important and I've had to make a few changes because of some individuals. For example:
- On time bonus doesn't work as the guys don't care for the extra 10% or 20%
- We allow rebuys but limit them to a max of 2 per player (otherwise one guy just keeps buying his way into the money)
- Late entries; (see on time bonus) we always allow this as some people are always late and if they're willing to buy in, they're willing to take the disadvantage that he reduced value of the starting stack implies.

Yeah, it's weird how different things can affect different groups differently. For some reason the on-time bonus is a huge hit with the Denver crew. I'd say it's good at getting 90-95% of folks in the seats on time. The late entry is really only for those guys who have a prior commitment, but still want to come play. Allowing it for the first couple of hours (on the long-play events) usually covers those folks.

As you said, knowing your players and being flexible in satisfying their needs can certainly be beneficial when trying to maximize attendance.

 

[bsdunbar1]

For some reason the on-time bonus is a huge hit with the Denver crew. I'd say it's good at getting 90-95% of folks in the seats on time.

I have experienced the same. One of the best things I have implemented in a while.