Bad Etiquette or Creative Game Recruitment?

Trihonda

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I'm hosting an event in two weeks (two table tourney with cash games afterwards). For my larger games, I typically create a Facebook event with details, and use that as a means to invite/track attendees, provide game updates, etc...

One of the invited players, John, has never actually played my game. However, I've played at his house once, and have played with him several times in other local games. John is a decent guy, and when he hosted, he put out a nice spread and has a nice setup (with TD on wall mounted screens, etc..).

I'm fairly particular with who gets invited to my house, but I maintain an invite list of around 60 people. When John hosted, his invite list seemed open to whomever "heard" about his game, and I gathered there were a number of people there whom he did not know. We run things differently in that regard.

John is also hosting a two-table game This Friday (but I can't make it). In my Facebook event page, John posted this on the event wall:

"I still need a few more to get to at least 10 for my home game this Friday 2/27. I'm assuming anyone Trihonda is willing to invite to his place, is likely good to come to mine as well. If anyone on this group wants to play this Friday night in Verona, just let me know."


Now, my first reaction was "WTF?", and I felt a tad miffed that he was poaching players from my invite list (when he has not even played with my group yet). I know there are some people that really get bent out of shape at people going to a game and using it as a platform for recruiting players for their own games. I figured the least he could have done, was ask if I minded? And I probably wouldn't have cared?

However, after considering this more, was my initial reaction off base? Is this really that big of a deal? I can guarantee that John didn't have bad intentions.

So, if it's bad etiquette, what would you do (if anything)?
 

BGinGA

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Man, for somebody who claims to dislike drama, it sure seems to follow you around like a big dark cloud..... lol



Pretty tacky move on John's part, imo - bad intentions or not. Can you remove posts on your facebook event page? If so, that's probably what I would do and leave it at that. I suppose you could always un-friend him..... :)


Yet another reason to never get involved in the murky world of online social media....
 

ssanel54

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Don't forget about the "Social" in Social Media. If he used your email invite list then maybe out of line, but I think posting on a social media website is perfectly acceptable, especially since he is complimenting you in the process.
 

jbutler

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i'm not on facebook, but if i i were i can't imagine i'd be bothered by this. say thank you for the compliment and move on.
 

atomiktoaster

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Sometimes it really sucks to be scrambling for players last minute. How often do you both host? If you guys are rarely going to conflict over timing, "poaching" seems a little harsh. Maybe the attitude is just "the more, the merrier". Could be different if we're talking about higher stakes or raked tables, I guess.
 

Trihonda

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Man, for somebody who claims to dislike drama, it sure seems to follow you around like a big dark cloud..... lol

IKR... Well, I'm sure I don't have any more drama than most other people, I just share more of it... I find discussing things helps alleviate stress (rather than keeping it bottled up). Which is likely why my blood pressure is not high. I also like to bounce stuff off the fine folks here to make improvements, where needed.

Pretty tacky move on John's part, imo - bad intentions or not. Can you remove posts on your facebook event page? If so, that's probably what I would do and leave it at that. I suppose you could always un-friend him..... :)

Unfriending is harsh, but ya, I might delete the post. It's not uncommon for me to delete extraneous comments/discussion from my FB events. I like to keep it clean and easily navigatable (so people don't have to swim through tons of crap to find pertinent event details)... Like trying to find any useful information in the CPS Order Thread these days... ;)
 

bergs

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It's usually proper etiquette to ask another host if he minds if you invite people from his game (unless he's already told his players about your game or it's been otherwise discussed).

I'm confused - is he hosting an event on the same night that you are?
 

Trihonda

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Sometimes it really sucks to be scrambling for players last minute. How often do you both host? If you guys are rarely going to conflict over timing, "poaching" seems a little harsh. Maybe the attitude is just "the more, the merrier". Could be different if we're talking about higher stakes or raked tables, I guess.

Don't forget about the "Social" in Social Media. If he used your email invite list then maybe out of line, but I think posting on a social media website is perfectly acceptable, especially since he is complimenting you in the process.

i'm not on facebook, but if i i were i can't imagine i'd be bothered by this. say thank you for the compliment and move on.


It is NOT a public event. It's locked down and invite only. The invitees are specific, and they're not given permission to invite others. This is my invite list's facebook accounts, and no different if it were emails IMHO.

Also, the more the merrier is fine... But a lot of my people on my list can only play cards so often... They might be thinking about playing my game, but decide to try John's game instead? Then they tell me their wives won't let them play my game, since they just played the week before. It very well could pull people away from my game? Dunno.

Am I concerned about John running a better game than me, not at all. And I think that if we all ran in the same circles, and he knew all the players of my game, it would seem less tacky.

It's hard to cultivate a decent invite list (as BG has pointed out, drama can ensue). Getting good people to come to a game is hard work.


It's usually proper etiquette to ask another host if he minds if you invite people from his game (unless he's already told his players about your game or it's been otherwise discussed).

I'm confused - is he hosting an event on the same night that you are?

No, as stated, his event is before mine.


Ya, I think the final verdict IMHO is that it was tacky, but I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about it. Especially since I don't think it will have a major impact on my game.
 
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ssanel54

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It is NOT a public event. It's locked down and invite only. The invitees are specific, and they're not given permission to invite others. This is my invite list's facebook accounts, and no different if it were emails IMHO.

Also, the more the merrier is fine... But a lot of my people on my list can only play cards so often... They might be thinking about playing my game, but decide to try John's game instead? Then they tell me their wives won't let them play my game, since they just played the week before. It very well could pull people away from my game? Dunno.

Am I concerned about John running a better game than me, not at all. And I think that if we all ran in the same circles, and he knew all the players of my game, it would seem less tacky.

It's hard to cultivate a decent invite list (as BG has pointed out, drama can ensue). Getting good people to come to a game is hard work.

Again, Its Facebook. He could easily just friend your friends and create his own page if he was trying to poach your players, but all he did was post on your page. You would know your players better than I, but there may also be some of them who do want to play both weeks.

I don't think Berg would have any issue if you extended the invite for MTT to any of the PCF'ers who attend BBOTB or vice/versa.
 

Trihonda

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Holy crap dude. C'mon I think you are actually putting on a big level to everyone here.

In all honesty you should change your name to TriHarder (as in try hard to not care), because life is really not that difficult.

Alright, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a "Big Level", but I get the gist. I apparently have picked the wrong group to discuss poker related stuff with. I will tri harder... to participate less in this community, because obviously it's impossible to ask a serious question without internet trolls and mean spirited folks throwing meaningless insults. If you had something constructive (even if it's criticism) to say, I'm all ears.

It was not my intention to inconvenience any of you with my question.

I had a negative first reaction to someone sending out an invite to their game (on my game's event page), then thought I might have over-reacted (and that it probably was no big deal), and wanted to gauge what other hosts would think. It's not an earth shattering (life is hard) moment. I was just polling the group. :rolleyes:
 

jbutler

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Alright, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a "Big Level", but I get the gist. I apparently have picked the wrong group to discuss poker related stuff with. I will tri harder... to participate less in this community, because obviously it's impossible to ask a serious question without internet trolls and mean spirited folks throwing meaningless insults. If you had something constructive (even if it's criticism) to say, I'm all ears.

It was not my intention to inconvenience any of you with my question.

I had a negative first reaction to someone sending out an invite to their game (on my game's event page), then thought I might have over-reacted (and that it probably was no big deal), and wanted to gauge what other hosts would think. It's not an earth shattering (life is hard) moment. I was just polling the group. :rolleyes:

trihonda, guinness isn't trolling you. he's giving you some extremely mild - like super duper crazy mild - ribbing for the amount of time, effort, and emotional energy you seem to devote to things that 95% of the population would not give a fuck about. his comments are, in effect, the constructive criticism you're asking for. he's telling you to lighten up and let it go just as others have above.

it's nothing. it's less than nothing. it's a comment on facebook. if there is anything that anyone on the planet could do that is less consequential than comment on facebook, i haven't found it (okay, maybe voting for president).
 

ssanel54

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It was not my intention to inconvenience any of you with my question.

I had a negative first reaction to someone sending out an invite to their game (on my game's event page), then thought I might have over-reacted (and that it probably was no big deal), and wanted to gauge what other hosts would think. It's not an earth shattering (life is hard) moment. I was just polling the group. :rolleyes:

You are getting the feedback that you were asking for, it just seems like you want more people to say that he was out of line.
 

bergs

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Hey, voting for President can have huge implications with wagers, particularly in toss up states like New Hampshire, where there's only like 5 people.

If he intentionally scheduled a game with you players on the same night you had a game, I'd sorta be like WTF. As played, "etiquette" is to ask if you mind, but it's not a big deal. I've had people contact me asking to contact some of the players in my game and I was taken aback because frankly it's sort of unexpected (and kinda nice) that someone would go to this length. Endgame, there are more important things to worry about.
 

manamongkids

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Hey, voting for President can have huge implications with wagers, particularly in toss up states like New Hampshire, where there's only like 5 people.

If he intentionally scheduled a game with you players on the same night you had a game, I'd sorta be like WTF. As played, "etiquette" is to ask if you mind, but it's not a big deal. I've had people contact me asking to contact some of the players in my game and I was taken aback because frankly it's sort of unexpected (and kinda nice) that someone would go to this length. Endgame, there are more important things to worry about.

Oh Bergs, quick update. Im gonna throw a NEMBOTOSO (Northeast Mass Battle on the Ocean Spring Open) the same weekend as BTOB5. Ive secretly been emailing your group and they are all coming to mine.
 

Strike1st

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I wouldn't of cared unless if was the same night. Though if it were me I'd of asked if if were OK first.
 

bergs

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Oh Bergs, quick update. Im gonna throw a NEMBOTOSO (Northeast Mass Battle on the Ocean Spring Open) the same weekend as BTOB5. Ive secretly been emailing your group and they are all coming to mine.

That name is way too long for most of the people coming to the BBOTB. Some of them would think it's a World of Warcraft thing and would show up at your home with unplugged desktop computers in their hand. I'd just send Truman to take a dump on your basement floor. Hey, it's happened before.

- - - - - - - - - Updated - - - - - - - - -

What can I bring?

A pooper scooper, a wireless mouse, and a thesaurus.
 

Chippy McChiperson

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Oh Bergs, quick update. Im gonna throw a NEMBOTOSO (Northeast Mass Battle on the Ocean Spring Open) the same weekend as BTOB5. Ive secretly been emailing your group and they are all coming to mine.


Umm you have no Wooden Spoon as far as I know. When you get one, let me know.

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It is NOT a public event. It's locked down and invite only. The invitees are specific, and they're not given permission to invite others. This is my invite list's facebook accounts, and no different if it were emails IMHO.

Also, the more the merrier is fine... But a lot of my people on my list can only play cards so often... They might be thinking about playing my game, but decide to try John's game instead? Then they tell me their wives won't let them play my game, since they just played the week before. It very well could pull people away from my game? Dunno.

Am I concerned about John running a better game than me, not at all. And I think that if we all ran in the same circles, and he knew all the players of my game, it would seem less tacky.

It's hard to cultivate a decent invite list (as BG has pointed out, drama can ensue). Getting good people to come to a game is hard work.




No, as stated, his event is before mine.


Ya, I think the final verdict IMHO is that it was tacky, but I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about it. Especially since I don't think it will have a major impact on my game.

By all accounts, it seems like you throw a great game. Why would someone want to try a different game if they had limited opportunities to play? Personally, if I could only go out x times per month, and I found a place I really like to play, I'd stick with that place.

Like others have said, I would take it as a compliment, and only be upset if it directly conflicted with one of your games. If anything, I would think this would only help your local poker community grow.
 

Trihonda

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By all accounts, it seems like you throw a great game. Why would someone want to try a different game if they had limited opportunities to play? Personally, if I could only go out x times per month, and I found a place I really like to play, I'd stick with that place.

Like others have said, I would take it as a compliment, and only be upset if it directly conflicted with one of your games. If anything, I would think this would only help your local poker community grow.

thanks! As I said in the OP, my initial reaction is that is was tacky (which others have said), but then I started to feel like I overreacted somewhat. I still think it's a tad tacky, but won't make a mountain out of a mole-hill. I appreciate the constructive feedback.

The the local poker community here is super strong. There's a FB group in town that has close to 600 members. This group discusses local poker tournaments, bar games, casino games, etc... But there's no vetting the members. Some people have used this group as a recruiting tool... No thanks. :).
 
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guinness

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Alright, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a "Big Level", but I get the gist. I apparently have picked the wrong group to discuss poker related stuff with. I will tri harder... to participate less in this community, because obviously it's impossible to ask a serious question without internet trolls and mean spirited folks throwing meaningless insults. If you had something constructive (even if it's criticism) to say, I'm all ears.

It was not my intention to inconvenience any of you with my question.

I had a negative first reaction to someone sending out an invite to their game (on my game's event page), then thought I might have over-reacted (and that it probably was no big deal), and wanted to gauge what other hosts would think. It's not an earth shattering (life is hard) moment. I was just polling the group. :rolleyes:

I didn't mean to be insensitive. I read your post when I was over 45 hours into my work week (only 3 days with 2 to go) and I guess I interpreted your issue as such a non-issue I had to blurb out, as Jack pointed out, a quick ribbing. The fact is, I tend to combine the local poker community as a single player pool whom rotate to various games, aka safety in numbers. It sounds like you have a monogamous relationship with your players whereas I have an open relationship. I think someone openly inviting your players means the other adults can do what they want. Doesn't seem to affect your hosted night. That is all.
 

grandgnu

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I think the guy should've asked you if it was ok first, seems like proper etiquette. Then again, every man can have a vastly different viewpoint on this. I'm moving 1200 miles away this Sunday and had run an always full home game for a few years.

One of my players had asked me to give him the email addresses of all my players so he could keep the game going. And another guy was like "yeah, give him my email address"

My response was 'I will send out an email to my group and give them your contact info so they can get in touch with you if they want to be on your invite list"

I always send my emails BCC so no ones email address is shared. maybe some of my 40 players don't want to be on his invite list for whatever reason, who am I to violate their privacy?
 

Strike1st

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I think the guy should've asked you if it was ok first, seems like proper etiquette. Then again, every man can have a vastly different viewpoint on this. I'm moving 1200 miles away this Sunday and had run an always full home game for a few years.

One of my players had asked me to give him the email addresses of all my players so he could keep the game going. And another guy was like "yeah, give him my email address"

My response was 'I will send out an email to my group and give them your contact info so they can get in touch with you if they want to be on your invite list"

I always send my emails BCC so no ones email address is shared. maybe some of my 40 players don't want to be on his invite list for whatever reason, who am I to violate their privacy?


Well handled!
 

Chicken Rob

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Trihonda, there seems to be a lot of drama surrounding your games. Most of it seems to be internally generated in your head. You seem to have a need for VERY tight control over the behavior of those who you interact with, and this is reflected in the response to guinness' post. I don't see posts from other hosts asking about banning and problems like this with any kind of regularity. If your game is so fragile that someone else inviting "your" players to a game is going to threaten its existence, then you have bigger problems than this face book post.

I host games, I go to other people's games, and there is one thing that I have noticed over the last decade, players rotate in and out of games all the time. The best recipe for a good game, is a healthy player pool. Working hard to create a small tight group that is made up of only the "right" people is going to be a fragile ecosystem.

A game is going to find it's own level. Your best regs are going to drive the direction of the game, and set the tone. There is nothing wrong with setting a good example for procedural discipline by enforcing the rules (as long as you are using it to protect the integrity of the game) and expecting gracious guests in your home, but you seem awfully quick to pull the ban hammer trigger.

To paraphrase whoever said this first: If you meet an asshole in the morning, it's unfortunate. If you run into assholes all day, maybe you're the asshole.

Replace drama-instigator with asshole in the above quote...
 
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According to the headline, I think it is both bad etiquette and creative recruitment.
He should have asked permission to post on your page for his event. It is a little tacky to advertise an event before yours as then some fence sitter might be inclined to only play in one. Advertising an event a week AFTER would be better, but only the day after your event.
I think you over-reacted just a tiny bit on this one, but a reaction wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

Keep having fun events! You put out a lot of effort to make us feel welcome.
 
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