ASM / CPC

warewulf

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I've been out of touch for a while...

Can someone briefly explain the demise of ASM which is now CPC? I know ASM was bought out by someone in Vegas roughly 4+ years or so ago (Dmach or something). Glad he either failed or no longer runs it. He really pissed me off with his awful decisions.

Also wondering: I always liked ASM, but never liked the lighter weight of their chips. I had a custom set on the roman mold made in roughly 2004 or so. I loved the way it looked, didn't like how they handled though. Has anything been done to add some weight to the current CPC?
 

stocky

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Short version. Michael and D. R. Ott bought Atlantic Standard Molding and moved it to Vegas as American Standard Molding. It started to look ok when they opened up shop until piss poor quality was getting churned out and Ott turned out to be an absolute ass hat who had to many email to answer a day to care about customer service. The David's along with Jimb bought up everything and resurrected everyone's custom clay hopes. (I'm sure I'm missing some key points someone else might fill you in more or search CT for the "ASM end of a era" thread.

Cant comment on the weight issue you have, but I do have a sample of roman mold chips and can say they are my least favourite to handle. Only you can judge if anything has changed enough to make you happy in making a purchase from CPC, I suggest getting a color sample and a mold sample to judge the different molds they offer. Also the customer service from CPC is through the roof. They have been a pleasure to deal with for me.
 

Mr Tree

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Weight wise the flaked chips should be almost identical to any others out there. I know I once compared them to TRKs and they came out pretty much exactly the same.

I've never owned them but I've heard others say while they look nice the Romans are the worst handling chips in the ASM family. You can order a mold sample set from CPC. Might be worth it to handle the other chips.
 

dennis63

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Jim B, who owned and ran ASM for over 20 years, decided to retire in 2012, I think. Michael Dambauch was the public face of the buyers, and worked with Jim B at the factory in Portland for a few months. Michael really knew how to make good casino chips which were indistinguishable from the chips from the old ASM. I thought he was a really good guy. He and his partners moved ASM to Las Vegas in an effort to get their chips into the casinos there.

In the second half of 2013, I placed a big order with them, and heard from Sally that there was a "partner" involved who was making decisions about prices. I spoke with Michael several times by phone and learned he was clashing with his "partner," Red Ott, over the quality of the chips being put out. Michael left the business in late 2012, I think.

This left Red in sole control of ASM, the molds, and the process. I visited ASM in Las Vegas in person and met him. He admitted to me that he was basically "a poker nut," but "not a chip nut." (His words.)

Simply put, Michael was a "chip nut" who knew how to make good chips. (To do so takes a lot of time and work, and there is a good deal of waste involved when you inspect and remove the imperfect chips.)

When Michael left, the level of quality dropped. Red thought the chips he had been producing were perfectly fine to go out the door to the customers, including, in many cases, the imperfect chips which earlier versions of the company would have pulled out and never sent.

When the buyers on CT began complaining about chips with spots and junk in them, Red blamed the customers and became something akin to Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi" in his dealings with customers. He basically hated all things internet, and was enraged that the members of CT would complain in that public forum, bashing his company. Red pulled his sponsorship from CT. Many veteran CT members declared all-out war on Red -- something he thought was orchestrated as retaliation for pulling his sponsorship. He was most likely wrong about that, as it doesn't take much to anger that crowd. It was all very, very ugly.

There was an effort by four or five CT members to buy ASM, but it failed. Red closed ASM in mid-December, 2013.

Soon after, David Spragg and David Sarles -- both casino chip experts from the CC&TCC -- bought the equipment and molds of the former ASM. They convinced Jim B to come out of retirement to run production, and moved the machines and molds from Las Vegas back to Portland. They named their company Classic Poker Chips, and the company's legendary quality returned.

The weight issue -- 9 grams average v. Paulson's 10 grams -- is understandable. Classic's chips are also considerably harder than Paulson chips, which gives the chip a completely different feel. After they're broken in a bit, they have a softer feel as the sharp edges wear a bit.
 
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Mr Tree

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There was an effort by four or five CT members to buy ASM, but it failed. Red closed ASM in mid-December, 2013.

I actually think my Hitching Posts may have been the last set to come out of ASM. They were mailed out just before Christmas in 2013.
 

warewulf

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Thanks all for the run down. I had read bits and pieces here and there, but was looking for more of a summary like Dennis and Stocky posted. Good that Spragg is involved. I'm not familiar with Sarles, but have read many posts/articles by Spragg.

I'll have to get some samples. Sounds like I originally picked the wrong mold. I like the diamond square mold and maybe hourglass.
 

jbutler

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I'll have to get some samples. Sounds like I originally picked the wrong mold. I like the diamond square mold and maybe hourglass.

while a couple of my favorite sets have been produced on the hourglass mold, most seem to believe it handles poorly and feels lighter than other molds. it does have a unique feel, but i didn't mind it when i had a set. in any case, if you're trying to test out how the mold feels, you'll want to get at least 10 or 12 for shuffling and handling in order to give them the full test drive.

my personal order of preference for currently available CPC molds: MD-50 (DSQ); FDL; H-mold; HHR; CSQ; B-mold; A-mold; Diecar; Plain; Hourglass. of course, what's appropriate for a set is often determined by the theme, but those are my preferences in a vacuum.
 

Mr Tree

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my person order of preference for currently available CPC molds: MD-50 (DSQ); FDL; H-mold; HHR; CSQ; B-mold; A-mold; Diecar; Plain; Hourglass. of course, what's appropriate for a set is often determined by the theme, but those are my preferences in a vacuum.

Are these preferences based purely on the tactile side of things?
 

jbutler

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Are these preferences based purely on the tactile side of things?

no, overall ranking taking into account the look and feel of the chips produced. like i said, though, it's hard to have a firm preference out of the context of a design. your Hitching Post chips, for instance, could be on no other mold imo.
 

Mr Tree

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no, overall ranking taking into account the look and feel of the chips produced. like i said, though, it's hard to have a firm preference out of the context of a design. your Hitching Post chips, for instance, could be on no other mold imo.

That gets tough. FDL is absolutely perfect for a lot of themes but even if it isn't it never looks awful. HHR though either fits like a glove or looks completely out of place IMO
 

jbutler

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That gets tough. FDL is absolutely perfect for a lot of themes but even if it isn't it never looks awful. HHR though either fits like a glove or looks completely out of place IMO

i'm generally more open to different molds being used for unrelated designs. i think that springs from the fact that there was a time when there only a couple molds available from ASM, so you saw a lot of non-horse/mule/donkey/zebra/etc designs use the HHR mold as it was one of those few that was available. i also got used to seeing a lot of vintage casinos use it for unrelated designs.

consequentially, my feeling is that there are designs that require a certain mold, but that there are very few designs which look bad specifically with a certain mold.
 

Chicken Rob

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HHR has a great feel for me. It's second for me in feel, but loses as it is to theme specific to me. Club courage and hitching post are perfect for it. It works fine with Truman's house, but isn't the perfect fit from a theme perspective, but since the MD-50 wasn't available at the time, I'm glad he got it, as I love the feel.
 

Mr Tree

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HHR has a great feel for me. It's second for me in feel, but loses as it is to theme specific to me. Club courage and hitching post are perfect for it. It works fine with Truman's house, but isn't the perfect fit from a theme perspective, but since the MD-50 wasn't available at the time, I'm glad he got it, as I love the feel.

MD50 your favorite feel?
 

Ben

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A different take. My ranking in a vacuum:

(E&C)
B-mold
H-mold
A-mold
HHR
MD-50
Hourglass
CSQ
(Roman)
FDL
Diecards
(Plain/no mold - not enough feel data; not much to look at though. :p)

Ya I know, I'm a weirdo.
 

MeridianFC

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I love my ASM chips. I recently got some CPC chips to replace the $1 cheques and they match pretty perfectly and it's been almost a decade between orders! There is no doubt the ASM chips are lighter in weight, I thought they were 8.5g, then say Paulson (10g), but I've gotten used to that. They do feel harder right out of the gate but I like that element. If I'm only handling ASM I pretty much don't notice. If I switch between Paulson and ASM it's very noticeable.

My only real complaint with ASM is the relative lack of consistency in chip thickness. Again I love ASM and it really is the only game in town, but in the interest of a full and open discussion this issue should be considered.

K.
 

manamongkids

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Hhr ftw! Capture.PNG
 

warewulf

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I love my ASM chips. I recently got some CPC chips to replace the $1 cheques and they match pretty perfectly and it's been almost a decade between orders! There is no doubt the ASM chips are lighter in weight, I thought they were 8.5g, then say Paulson (10g), but I've gotten used to that. They do feel harder right out of the gate but I like that element. If I'm only handling ASM I pretty much don't notice. If I switch between Paulson and ASM it's very noticeable.

My only real complaint with ASM is the relative lack of consistency in chip thickness. Again I love ASM and it really is the only game in town, but in the interest of a full and open discussion this issue should be considered.

K.

So would you say the chips you received recently are the same weight as the ones from 10 years ago?
 

MeridianFC

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So would you say the chips you received recently are the same weight as the ones from 10 years ago?

Yes. There is no discernible difference when hoisting stacks. In all respects they are shockingly consistent with ASM (Portland) chips.

Just to be clear the difference I was speaking of was between ASM and Paulson.
 
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detroitdad

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I really need a set of hot stamped solids. Ohhhhh the days when you could get them for .45 a chip :(
 

Mr Hanky

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I think that the age / worn of the mold influences to tactile a lot.
I've got the opportunity to directly compare some sets of the CircleSquare / H-Mold / Diamond Square. Out of the box the H-Mold seems the sharpest and youngest or less worn mold, followed by the CiSQ and a very worn and smooth MD-50.
I use some of my MD-50 DISQ to shuffle and they feel very close to the Paulson Tophat & Cane home game chips to me.
 

abby99

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I use some of my MD-50 DISQ to shuffle and they feel very close to the Paulson Tophat & Cane home game chips to me.

The MD-50 chips feel like a cross between TRK and Paulson H&C, but a little lighter. I love 'em.
 

mike32

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Jim B has stated many times over the years the formula has never changed. I have old Nevada mold and older H molds along with a rack of CPC h molds I added on to my set. All feel similar to me, no difference.
 

spikeithard

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ok which direction is this thread going? Just when I think I have it, it changes.

Mold talk? ASM/CPC current news talk? Evil Ott talk?

But ya, the DSQ mold is the bomb. Only thing is I LOVE larger inlay size so the FDL is the winner for me followed by the DSQ mold... then any other one after that.
 

bergs

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Looked in vain for my photo of EVIL DOCTOR OTT and can't find one, even on the blue wall. Very disappointing, fits perfectly into the Saga of ASM/CPC.
 

warewulf

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Yes. There is no discernible difference when hoisting stacks. In all respects they are shockingly consistent with ASM (Portland) chips.

Just to be clear the difference I was speaking of was between ASM and Paulson.

Thanks for the info.

I really need a set of hot stamped solids. Ohhhhh the days when you could get them for .45 a chip :(

Yeah, I was looking at a set in the classifieds that would need add ons. $1.40 each for blanks with level one spots. Damn, inflation sucks.

The MD-50 chips feel like a cross between TRK and Paulson H&C, but a little lighter. I love 'em.

Will be ordering samples of those.
 

CdnBeerLover

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Looked in vain for my photo of EVIL DOCTOR OTT and can't find one, even on the blue wall. Very disappointing, fits perfectly into the Saga of ASM/CPC.

I saw an image by Guinness (post #419 in the huge thread about ASM Vegas)...was it that one?
 
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