Argument over custom cloth print (1 Viewer)

Coyote

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When was the last time you calibrated your monitor? Without calibration you don't know what you're looking at. Not the printers fault.

Citizens cannot be required to know anything that is not recommended and available for teaching by the Polity, either directly or through private out-sourcing.
What the f*ck is monitor calibrating? Did the market regulator (the Polity) tell anybody anything about it?
 

DallasAch

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I work in the print industry and this can sometimes happen when two colors are much more similar in build than they appear on the screen. I'd be curious to know what the CMYK values of the background color and pattern are.

I'd say since its already done and you have it in hand. Install it and use it for a while and then get one made the way you preferred next time. Definitely wouldn't pay them half to take it back.
 

T_Chan

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Colors can be tricky to match from a computer screen to what's printed on the cloth.

It's the same as if you printed a photo on a piece of paper, it usually looks a little different than a computer screen. It also depends on the screen's color settings, and if you're looking at it on a computer screen, TV, or phone. The printer's calibration also plays a role as well.

If there's ever a thought that the colors might color shift, then I usually recommend printing a sample first.

I've had cloths that look cream on the computer but turn out kind of orange, and blues that turn out purple or vice versa. Fades and gradients can be difficult as well. I send out color sample swatches too so that customers can see the colors for themselves and choose based on the swatch rather than the color on the screen since it can be misleading.
 

Talrem

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I’ll reiterate a few things to be mindful of in the future of printing:
1) Make sure your monitor is calibrated!
2) Work with the printer (person) to determine which is the best color mode/settings to use (RGB or CMYK) for their printers (machines).
3) Study the hues you’re using by comparing them to swatches or a color wheel. Some tertiary hues like blue-violet, red-orange, etc. will lean more toward one side and may appear different when printed. There are many resources online to help with colors for print.
4) Always ask if they could print a mini proof(s) to see if the final product has the right colors. If not, and you haven’t done the first 3 things in this list, it’s a crap-shoot if it will be exactly to your liking. I don’t know why printers wouldn’t offer proofs to the customer.

I know it may not be exactly what your expectations were, but it IS a nice print (for the most part.) See if you could sell it to get your money back - I wouldn’t go for the half refund - then invest in a domestic printer, maybe a local business.

Sorry about the bad experience!
 
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Colors can be tricky to match from a computer screen to what's printed on the cloth.

It's the same as if you printed a photo on a piece of paper, it usually looks a little different than a computer screen. It also depends on the screen's color settings, and if you're looking at it on a computer screen, TV, or phone. The printer's calibration also plays a role as well.

If there's ever a thought that the colors might color shift, then I usually recommend printing a sample first.

I've had cloths that look cream on the computer but turn out kind of orange, and blues that turn out purple or vice versa. Fades and gradients can be difficult as well. I send out color sample swatches too so that customers can see the colors for themselves and choose based on the swatch rather than the color on the screen since it can be misleading.
Hey Tony, I appreciate you weighing in since you're probably the most knowledgeable person about the matter at hand. The color shifts are something that wouldn't bother me that much. It's the shift of brightness that is troublesome since I can't make out the pattern I had Tim design over several weeks.
I've worked with a few printing companies in my sidejob as a wedding photographer and all of the good ones offered advice or help in getting the brightness of the printed product just right. Since you as the photographer can only guess what their printer and printing medium is gonna do to the brightness of your photo, you're depending on the printing company to advice you on the settings or let them take the reins in fine tuning your material.
Well either that or just printing out a sample or color swatch as you suggested.

Neither of those things were even offered and they went straight to printing and thus I am unhappy with how things turned out with 4aces-poker.de .
 

T_Chan

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I usually try to offer samples whenever I see a print that might have contrast problems. With a dark blue on blue pattern, I would have suggested a print test, but that's just from my experience. It can be very difficult to know which ones will turn out well and which ones need some adjustments. Every company does things their own way. I always get a customer to sign off on the artwork before printing it, and if they are worried about contrast as well, then we usually do the sample first.

As is always mentioned on PCF, "get samples".

I hope everything works out for you.
 

Budha

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I think I'd explore partial rebate possibilities with the seller, and see if they will refund their profit from the sale and allow you to keep the cloth that does not meet your expectations.

Everybody wins -- the seller doesn't lose money, you get a discounted cloth and don't lose money, and both sides compromise in an unfortunate situation.

Seems better for both parties than either of the other two options.
I would agree, see if you get agreement to cover their actual cost and have them refund the remainder. You might be able to sell the cloth locally, or here to recoup the remainder. Everyone is whole and you pass on a great deal on the discounted cloth to someone else.

Then order from T-Chan. You’ll get better CS and someone who’ll spend the time with you on the colors, etc.

Sometimes a compromise can yield the better result. Not being an expert, or even close - it does seem reasonable they printed off the file and there was something with the configuration / translation from the file to the printer with regards to colors. (That’s way above my technical pay grade - lol)

Good luck.

Edit: meant to include that you keep the cloth as part of this suggested alternative :cool
 

justsomedude

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Most reputable printers will provide a proof/review step for final sign off. But I’ve found that doesn’t happen much in the poker realm... You’re usually dealing with business/poker folks and not graphics folks, so the onus often falls on you/us to ensure proper print color/accuracy. Ask for a printer profile ICC file to perform your own calibrated-monitor preview and heads might explode.

That being said I’d just mount it. Play on it. Enjoy it. Love it.

And as some one else already suggested, just plan on going with a different printer on your next build.
 
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timinater

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Sorry to be so late to this thread.

I think there is a lot of good advice in here.
I do also always recommend @T_Chan, but understand wanting to use a supplier local-ish here. I’m definitely disappointed in the lack of communication/follow through from this supplier.

I won’t rehash our conversations here but @OfficerLovejoy knows they’ve got my support on making any changes tweaks etc. if needed.
 
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After some back and forth with the vendor, we settled for them to refund me €49,90 and I keep the cloth as is.

I'd rather have the cloth as I envisioned it, but I'm glad I'm not out the full €190.

I'll probably just put in the order with @T_Chan asap and mount the imperfect cloth until I get the new one.

@timinater was even more upset at the turn of events than I was and just refunded his design salary back to me to take some of the sting out which of course I'll get back to him asap.
Just wanted to let you guys know how great of a person he is and I'll not allow him not getting paid for his awesome design.

This concludes this chapter and I'm ready to turn a new page with Tony and I'll let you guys know if there is a happy end for the Bullenrunde table build. I personally have no doubt we'll get it right this time.

Thank you for being along for the ride.
 

Perthmike

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+1 for @timinater being a good dude and for @T_Chan being the only man to go for felt printing.

Glad you got some sort of reasonable outcome and as others have said, it does still look like a great felt.
 
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And here it is mounted in all its way too dark glory. ;)
IMG_20210817_210743.jpg

2021-08-17 - Bullenrunde Table-1.jpg

2021-08-17 - Bullenrunde Table-2.jpg
 
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MaxB

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I actually like the finished product better. It sucks that it's not what you wanted (and paid good money for) but it really looks good.

Those light blue and green Flamingo chips are going to pop when on the felt.
 

monkeydog

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I actually like the finished product better. It sucks that it's not what you wanted (and paid good money for) but it really looks good.

Those light blue and green Flamingo chips are going to pop when on the felt.

I think it looks great... but I can certainly understand your frustration.

X2 - and I think a splashed pot is going to look amazing.
 

allforcharity

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I always thought the cloth as printed looked amazing. But you didn't like it, and that's all that matters. I sympathize, because often enough what other people consider "good design" can be my nightmare.
 
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I always thought the cloth as printed looked amazing. But you didn't like it, and that's all that matters. I sympathize, because often enough what other people consider "good design" can be my nightmare.
I appreciate it and I'm enjoying the cloth to some degree because you can see about 80% of what I envisioned.
Just wait until I get the cloth from @T_Chan. I hope you'll see why I think we're not at the finish line yet.
 

T_Chan

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I'm currently going through this exact issue with a customer in Austrailia. The artwork was sent to me but right away I could see potential contrast issues.

The artwork pattern:
Screenshot 2021-08-22 11.34.55.png


So I suggested a test print, and sure enough the pattern is pretty much invisible. I cranked up the contrast to do 2 more tests and it looks better.

2021-08-20 14.33.04.jpg
2021-08-20 14.33.06.jpg
2021-08-20 14.33.08.jpg


50% is still muted, but at least it's visible which is what I think the goal was.
 
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I'm currently going through this exact issue with a customer in Austrailia. The artwork was sent to me but right away I could see potential contrast issues.

The artwork pattern:
View attachment 761229

So I suggested a test print, and sure enough the pattern is pretty much invisible. I cranked up the contrast to do 2 more tests and it looks better.

View attachment 761232View attachment 761233View attachment 761234

50% is still muted, but at least it's visible which is what I think the goal was.
See, this is why I should`ve come to you right from the start, Well done sir. :tup:
 
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