Wow! A lot of comments, which is great! I'll try to address it all, but first, progress: Ordered all three members of the 3D printed prototype and 25 pegs over the weekend. They'll be printed in black ABS plastic (think LEGO-type density). As of yet, the orders are still showing "placed," which I'm sure means they're not being printed just yet. I expect to have them in about a week, based upon previous experience with 3D printers, but I'm using a new company, so I can't be sure. I'll drop a line to keep you all posted.
Forgive me if I miss anything in the following lines, guys. While I usually carefully weigh each word I use, there's a lot to cover, here.
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Were it not for the constraints put on us by the nature of the injection molding process, this might be a viable idea. The problem is that injection molding requires two plates, primarily, which are pushed together and pulled apart horizontally. This requires that a part's features should be formable in one of two directions, for purposes of this example, we'll call them up or down. For us to add any feature that comes in from the side, would require adding a side action--another piece of aluminum designed to come in from the side--which would make the tooling significantly more complicated and expensive.
Oversimplified Example Tooling for the APEX:
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You can see how it would be difficult, maybe impossible, to add anything that makes screw holes from the side. It could be done in-house as a secondary operation, but that adds significantly to the labor and assembly time. Also, the thickness of any given part can only be so thick, so a sideways screw wouldn't be screwing into much anyway. (See the part below, where I talk about wall-thickness.)
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(Edit: Forgot to add this example pic of a side action.)
I think others answered this concern pretty well.
Sorry we couldn't start with the compartmented version first, Mathieu. If you're willing though, we (all of us) could still use your support on the early version.
I would say that this
could be considered pretty typical use. Have you ever really thought about how much force is actually being applied to any object in a car when you take a sharp turn or come to a quick stop? It's not my aim to get into a physics discussion, here, but I would assert that it isn't really all that much force at all. I mean, couldn't you easily apply much more force to those chips and the handle with your body weight or your hand/arm strength than your sudden stop had to offer?
That case should not have broken so easily.
See above.
I'll discuss this in-depth with the injection molder after the prototype gets here.
This is an interesting idea, but it would be necessarily big--comparable to the bottom cover--and, therefore, require more expensive tooling. This would have to be another feature that the majority wanted, in order to justify the cost. (See also my comment below about the card rack idea.)
This is a great idea and I've been thinking about it a lot. Maybe this would satisfy
@Mathieu's concerns as well? Again, this would have to be another pre-order thing, a separate project entirely. But, the problem with this particular item is, given the expected low price for each rack--and rightly so--we would need to make sure that we could get pre-orders for at least 1000 units. That's very ballpark. If they were $2 each, I mean, we'd need 100 PCF members * 10 racks apiece? Most members wouldn't need more than a few, I would think.
Thanks, guys, for your patience, understanding, and kind words. There's a lot to do and a lot to learn, but it will be worth it if we can all flip the poker equipment space on its apathetic ear.
@allforcharity hit the nail on the head. I can't stress enough that we need everyone's support on this initial run. I know it's not what every single person wants, and I love the idea of the compartments in the base much more than the next guy. That was one of the chief selling points of the APEX since its inception. But, the majority spoke and we have to go with what the majority wants if we're going to get any of this off the ground.
I honestly think it won't be long. We're going to reinvest every penny of profit back into the business for quite some time. Tooling for the other sizes and base types is at the top of the list!
I appreciate the insight,
@Mr. Cheese. I love that you guys are giving this case as much thought as you all are. The ultrasonic weld, though, won't fail. I wish I could impart this knowledge to you quickly and easily. Thermoplastics that are ultrasonically welded together, they become one unit, basically. You'd have to hit the handle with a sledgehammer to get the thing apart, once it's been welded.
Yes, it will help, to a certain extent. The combination of the screws pulling the handle into the pocket and the pocket keeping the bottom of the handle together was part of the idea behind this aspect of the design. It
will help. But, man, as I stated in the above comment, good luck getting the handle halves apart anyway. The real strength will be the ultrasonic weld.
All thermoplastics are limited to a certain wall thickness. That wall thickness requirements change depending on the properties of the material you're using, whether it's the primary wall or a feature like a rib or a boss, the geometry of the part, how the mold is cooled, the cool-time before setting, etc.. Ignoring or trying to force the material to do something it's not physically capable of is a recipe for disaster. Warping, sagging, and shrinkage can occur as the material cools. The handle is 1/2" thick. Even if it wouldn't twist or bow, it would take a long time to cool each part at that thickness, which means it would increase the cycle time for each part, which adds cost. Also, it would require about twice as much material, which doubles the cost of the handle, at least.
This is actually how I designed the Black Aurora Modular Poker Case. Live and learn, I guess, but I never liked the screws that were visible on the top of the base, and it really didn't provide that much more strength. The 3D printed version worked fine, but when it comes to injection molding, we would run into the side action problem again, or the geometry of the T would have to be a trickier. I've found that keeping it simple avoids problems. Also, most ways of attaching a T-shaped handle end in visible screws or a thicker base component.
Yeah, the screws go about 1.25" deep into tight pilot holes of glass-reinforced nylon. Anyone who's ever dabbled in plastics or even woodworking can tell you that when you drill or screw into any solid material, you compromise its structural integrity. That's why I designed the pilots holes into the mold itself. The pilot holes will have to expand only minimally around the shaft of the screws and the threads will bite directly into intact GFN. It'll be strong. Very strong.
I think, since we'll only be shipping a couple hundred or so in the beginning, it's safe to take special orders, if you want,
@BGinGA. (i.e. "Hold the feet.")
About the new card, dealer button, plaque rack, that's something that I'm definitely working my way up to. There are a LOT of products that I'm looking forward to making and bringing to you guys. Last night, I had a dream about a mini Apex. (Yes, I actually
dream about poker products, evidently.)
Yup.
Ah, I see why you would want the feet out of there, with all of the sliding.
As for the dents in the felt, I think this won't be as big a problem as some are thinking it will be. The pics make it look taller, but the feet only protrude out of the bottom by about the height of a poker chip. I think, when set on top of 1/4" foam, covered by felt, the bottom of the cover will take some of the load off of the feet. Placed on foam any greater than 1/4" and I'm sure the feet won't even leave any noticeable depressions at all.
That was part of the design as well. Some expressed a concern that the feet would leave marks in their felt; some were concerned that the feet didn't have enough room to wear, if they were only a couple of millimeters tall; I didn't want the feet to be totally obvious, but I wanted to make sure the bottom of the case was protected from scratches and gunk, too. I thought around 3.5mm would give nearly everyone what they want: discrete feet that protect the bottom of the case, but are short enough to allow the felt to "wrap around" the bottom and the edges.
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I hope I addressed most of everyone's questions. Feel free to hmu if you have anything else. Now that the models are done, I can breathe again, so posting won't be so difficult.
Can't wait to get the prototype in! Hope all is well with everyone.