Shaggy
Full House
Here's a quick and dirty concept that will allow for the use of many rack sizes... i.e. two rows of holes, one offset from the other.
Apex/Black Aurora Poker Chip Cases (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mario Garza
- Start date
justsomedude
Straight Flush
That's cool! I see where you guys are headed now!!
OP
OP
Copy that. Thanks, @RichMahogany.
Good thing I asked before putting the poll up. Thanks for helping me clarify and to recognize the demand for no bench dogs, although, I don't know why you wouldn't want them as an option if you can just remove them. Or maybe some find the holes with no dogs too unsightly?
The second poll was to say:
A) has compartments for dealer buttons and cards and bench dogs and holes
B) is exactly the same, but with no compartments. That is, it does have bench dogs and holes.
So, we should add:
C) base with no compartments, no bench dogs or holes.
Not at all. I understand the concern.
The difference in width in the bottoms of those different chip racks is caused by draft angles. I'll try to keep this short and sweet (but I've been failing at that, admittedly). For those who don't know how injection molding works, the simple version is:
Injection molded parts are made by two block of metal that have cavities milled out of them. When the two blocks of metal are clamped together, the cavities create the shape of the part that you're making.
Hot, liquid plastic is injected into the mold and allowed to cool. When the plastic cools, it becomes hard.
The metal blocks are then separated and ejector pins within the metal blocks themselves push the part out.
Now, we've all had experience with canned dog food--sorry, best metaphor I have on such short notice
--and how it sticks to the inside of the can, unless you relieve the pressure with a puncture on the other side of the can. How much easier would it be to remove the dog food from the can if the can were shaped more like an ice cream cone?That's what draft is. The plastic is the dog food and the draft is the angle of the ice cream cone.
With all the friction between the plastic part and the metal tooling, there needs to be a small angle for the part to eject easily. Plastics require betwen 1.5°-2.5°of draft. The greater the draft, the more pyramid-shaped the ejected part will be.
So, with this concept in mind, the height of the current pins/pegs/posts design, as shown, is .157" or 4mm. I bought every kind of poker chip rack that I could find during development and I have not found a rack that does not fit. I designed the pegs to be slightly narrower than the smallest width of the narrowest racks. Length-wise, I designed them to fit within the shortest 39mm racks.
I will take every precaution to make sure that the bench dogs and bench dog holes are:
1) tall enough to hold the racks in place
2) strong enough not to break, even under the full weight of the chips
3) numerous enough to be able to accommodate a variety of real-world chip rack widths and lengths
4) thin enough to be able to fit as many as necessary to accommodate said widths/lengths
5) short enough to fit underneath the barrels
Having experienced the benefits of the pegs in the Black Aurora prototypes, I believe it's one of those things that you don't know you need until you have it. I don't have as good a space or table(s) to have a good game, so I'm the guy who brings the chips, usually. Having dragged 1000-1500 chips all over town regularly, I've had my chips slide around in their birdcages quite a bit.
The philosophy is this: The pegs keep the racks still. This protects the handle, racks, and the acrylic from becoming marred and worn. It allows you to carry the chips around without the lid, when, if you need to--color-ups is an example. If we're making a poker chip case from scratch, why not design them in? If you don't need 'em, you can always take the pegs out.
Gotta get back to work. (y) :thumbsup:
OP
OP
Very similar to what I had in mind, having looked at the above renderings. I'm thinking 4 pegs might even do it, but I still need some 43mm chip racks! Where's a good place to get a variety of brands quickly?
Shaggy
Full House
sadly... everyone sells different ones... or so it seems. Perhaps some members will be willing to ship you a variety.
ekricket
Royal Flush
Somebody give this man measurements for whatever 43mm you have. I would but no access to my chips.
ekricket
Royal Flush
This is nice but if your not going to use the pegs include some way of keeping them with the case. Maybe make them rectangular so when standing on short end they poke up but when placed in the case on their long end they don’t poke up.
You may use them later and your kid or dog may have already ate them or your wife threw them away if they are just floating around
In full disclosure, I did have an accidental birdcage dump during my last tournament.
I had one tip over in the backseat floor of my car.
Mental Nomad
Full House
Just to put it out there... I think the adjustable bench dogs are putting the perfect ahead of the good, and doing it in a way that's only perfect for particular racks, anyway.
The danger is chip racks sliding out the sides when the cover is off... not so much sliding off the ends. And there's certainly no danger from them sliding into the handle. SOOoooo....
You don't need four bench dogs at the corners to protect a rack. You need two pins along the inside, which keep the rack from sliding out.
The two pins can be close enough to fit the shortest racks... because longer racks will still be protected. Sliding an inch off the base, length-wise, won't let them fall; sliding off the side is the only risk.
And you avoid those future problems from different racks not fitting over four pins, and you don't need to machine 24 extra pins into the base die... instead, you machine four holes. Tooling & price stay low.
The danger is chip racks sliding out the sides when the cover is off... not so much sliding off the ends. And there's certainly no danger from them sliding into the handle. SOOoooo....
You don't need four bench dogs at the corners to protect a rack. You need two pins along the inside, which keep the rack from sliding out.
The two pins can be close enough to fit the shortest racks... because longer racks will still be protected. Sliding an inch off the base, length-wise, won't let them fall; sliding off the side is the only risk.
And you avoid those future problems from different racks not fitting over four pins, and you don't need to machine 24 extra pins into the base die... instead, you machine four holes. Tooling & price stay low.
Mental Nomad
Full House
If the whole birdcage tips over, the nubs won't save you.
Kyle
Full House
Yeah but you were fucked up though. Great times!In full disclosure, I did have an accidental birdcage dump during my last tournament.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I thought you were trying to stay out of the out-of-context thread...
I think that's the issue. Birdcages are not for travelling... They are for storing and displaying at home.
But if they were made well enough, they *could* be for travelling!
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
To be safe for traveling, I would prefer latches of some sort. Both of my travel sets utilize a fastened case. One uses a zipper, the other is an aluminum case.
Even though the safety of aluminum cases is questionable at best, I still prefer them to a birdcage when traveling out of the house.
Casinos would not use a birdcage that did not latch. One stumble and chips go flying... would be bad for business.
Even though the safety of aluminum cases is questionable at best, I still prefer them to a birdcage when traveling out of the house.
Casinos would not use a birdcage that did not latch. One stumble and chips go flying... would be bad for business.
OP
OP
I think that the black base and white wall/handle look the best. Make that the first run. Its different without being too Tutti Frutti.This is what should have been in the first post. Please understand that there will be logistical changes. (Rounding of corners/edges, filleting, texture change, possibly recessing the feet, etc., etc.--not to mention the changes brought about after polling.) These images are for reference only. Black and white chosen to illustrate that it's comprised of two members.
Features:
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#caseporn
1000 chips. Stabilizers. Rubber feet. Black base with white handle/divider. Holders for 2 decks and 2 buttons.
OP
OP
Ok, so let's get a poll up and running. Let's start with the capacity to get our feet wet, since it's the simplest design concept.
Should I allow each member multiple votes or just one vote? Choices will be 1200, 1000, 800, 600, and 400.
Should I allow each member multiple votes or just one vote? Choices will be 1200, 1000, 800, 600, and 400.
1st choice, 2nd choice should give you what you need.
OP
OP
Alright, so let’s do a single-vote poll. Keep it simple.
OP
OP
Alright, the first poll is up! I set it for 10 days, which is about the time that we'll be able to move on to the next topic: 39mm, 43mm, or 39mm + 43mm. 43mm chips and racks should be here by then, so I'll be able to design something that'll be closer to what you'll actually get.
Shaggy
Full House
Are the Apache racks the Paulson racks? Are the ABC Racks the Chipco racks? I know CPC offers racks that fit their chips splendidly. I know @dennis63 sells racks that fit the Key West CPC chips perfectly. Not real sure what you will get from Amazon, Spinettis, or GGS... but they deserve to be in the group.
RowdyRawhide
Full House
Personally If you're not going to put all of the options in one poll then I would do individual threads for each one and only allow 1 vote for each. Allow people to change their vote though.
If you're going to do it ITT then edit the title to let people know the poll was added and for god's sake put them all in the the same poll with multiple votes allowed. Changing the poll every few days is going to turn into a cluster eff and only a jackass would vote more than once in a section. Let the votes be seen publicly so we can roast their ass when they get caught.
ekricket
Royal Flush
Cracking me up, design by committee. How about you just pick one thing you can do well and do it to start off. Then build on that success. How about a simple improved chip rack?
The comments about tipping over make me think what you really need is a tray for your trunk to hold the case securely. Or possibly an insert for your passenger seat to secure the cage in. This is a joke btw, but it seems to be what’s happening here.
If lugs to hold tray are important I can just drill holes in my existing ones and put some pegs in. What I can’t do is use the same racks for different chip widths, and I don’t have a 43 mm birdcage. I can get anything else you are proposing already.
BigPappaPump
Sitting Out
Is an adjustable chip rack a thing? One that can open and close to snug on to any chip.
I must respectfully 1000% disagree... they are actually for transporting chips to and from the vault, count room, cashiers cage, poker, and blackjack tables... they are completely made for traveling, and that’s it.
Now, what the chipping community does with them is a different story. But, they are indeed for transporting chips.
BigPappaPump
Sitting Out
You are correct they are for transporting chips but to and from a local area not traveling on a plane or long distances
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
...within the casino.
Not in a vehicle to a location outside a casino. They are not designed for vehicle travel.
colter ripton
Full House
Dont matsui racks hold both 39 and 43mm chips and also fit in a birdcage?
BigPappaPump
Sitting Out
Putting a birdcage in your trunk works perfectly fine.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Maybe my sarcasm filter is off, but I retract my 'Like' of your previous post.
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