Tourney Any suggestion to my Tourney structure ? (1 Viewer)

[TudiscoKid]

We played with a different structure last night and we agreed it was a bit too long (5 hours) and a level was missing at the end.

This is what I've come up, any suggestions ?

Starting stack and rebuys and add-ons: 10.000 (+ up to 2.000 bonus chips for showing up on time and bringing exact change)
Player capacity: 9

The fulll list of rules can be seen here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nZ9qm2liC0UUlKeKLDsEolLqQO1C5IzVZITrdo5tr4c/edit?usp=sharing


Thanks!

 

[BPTDirector]

Make all blind rounds 20 minutes, use two decks, shuffle behind, tell the ‘thinkers’ they only get a minute MAX to make a decision.

 

[TudiscoKid]

Make all blind rounds 20 minutes, use two decks, shuffle behind, tell the ‘thinkers’ they only get a minute MAX to make a decision.

I'm not. a big fans of speedy tourneys, I'm thinking 30mn at first then 25 or 20 mn.

Yep, we do shuffle behind with a second deck. I'm going to enforce limited time per player/buy time chips as well.

 

[Gunnar]

So some thoughts, I don´t like levels to double up in blinds, we are avg 11.000 in starting stack. Assuming 4 rebuys then the avg stack for a 9 player table is and 5 addons. Then avg stack is 21.000

15 min lvls
25 / 50
50 / 100
75 / 150
100 / 200
150 / 300
200 / 400

Time past 1:30

-- 15 min break -- Color up 25
15min levels
300/600
500/1000
700/1400

Time past 2:30

-- 15 min break -- Color up 100
15 min levels
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
5000/10000

Time past 4:00
faster levels give more urgency and more fair blind structure. If there are more rebuys and more addons than I assumes then I would say 10 min levels after second break and add levels 7000/14000 and 10000/20000

 

[Gunnar]

I'm not. a big fans of speedy tourneys, I'm thinking 30mn at first then 25 or 20 mn.

Yep, we do shuffle behind with a second deck. I'm going to enforce limited time per player/buy time chips as well.

Speed tournament don´t only depend on length of levels but also the blind jumps
30min levels with
25/50
50/100
100/200
200/400
has the avg blind in the first 120min as 281 in pot after blinds

25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
With 20 min is 120min with the avg blind as 300 in pot after blinds

 

[Legend5555]

How many people do you have?

I run tournies with 14-18 players with reentry and an add on, and we usually get done around 5 hours including breaks using:

20k start, 20k reentry, 20k add on

BB Ante at all times
20 min levels

100/100
100/200
200/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
500/1000
500/1500
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
4000/8000
5000/10000
5000/15000

 

[Gunnar]

And yeah good point, Ante is also a good option, but it also depends very much on many rebuys and addons there are

 

[TudiscoKid]

Thanks for your responses, I will get through them

For now, I only have a capacity of 9 players.

I really don't like ante tourneys, I've played one in the past and man was it a bummer.

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm not. a big fans of speedy tourneys, I'm thinking 30mn at first then 25 or 20 mn.

You have to compromise somewhere if you want to fit in 5 hours. Personally I think 20 min is more than sufficient per level for a home tournament start to finish. The idea should be that the everyone has the button at least once per level. At 2 minutes per hand in a 10 handed game, this works out.

Also a 240*BB start is probably ambitious to fit in 5 hours as well.

For a 4 hour tournament, I do a 100BB start and blinds that follow a 2-4, 3-6, 4-8, 6-12, 8-16 progression. (Meaning I multiply each chip in play by those numbers.) Since you use T25 base it could look like this:

(Keep the 12K starting stack, but start at 50-100)
50-100, 75-150, 100-200, 150-300 (break 10m color up T25, 1h30 elapsed)
200-400, 300-600, 400-800, 600-1200 (break 10m color up T100, 3h00 elapsed)
1000-2000, 1500-3000, 2000-4000, 3000-6000 (probable end of tournament, 4h20 elapsed) 4000-8000, 6000-12000 (break 10m color up T500 & T1000, 5h10m elapsed)

Further levels 15 mins
10K-20K, 15K-30K, 20K-40K

I did take out the "8-16" levels of the progression for expedience (no 800-1600 or 8000-16000)

This gives you a smoother progression (no doubled levels anywhere), cuts between 40-60 minutes out of your time, and still should provide enough time for the button to go around every orbit.

 

[Mandos]

I personally prefer using T100 and a structure like @Legend5555 suggests, but if you have the chips for T25 then @JustinInMN offered a pretty good solution. I would play at a tourney with 20 min (or even 15 minute) levels and one of those structures over one with 30 minute levels that double frequently 10 times out of 10.

I really don't like ante tourneys, I've played one in the past and man was it a bummer.

Why don't you like ante tourneys? I find that they make the action more meaningful (more dead money in pots, therefore more to fight for/steal especially early in the tournament) while still keeping the minimum bet at a level that stacks are deep enough that there is room to play. What's not to like about that?

 

[TudiscoKid]

I personally prefer using T100 and a structure like @Legend5555 suggests, but if you have the chips for T25 then @JustinInMN offered a pretty good solution. I would play at a tourney with 20 min (or even 15 minute) levels and one of those structures over one with 30 minute levels that double frequently 10 times out of 10.


Why don't you like ante tourneys? I find that they make the action more meaningful (more dead money in pots, therefore more to fight for/steal especially early in the tournament) while still keeping the minimum bet at a level that stacks are deep enough that there is room to play. What's not to like about that?

I guess that's because I lost a lot of hands while being BB at the tourney I took part in, I found it rather unfair to lose a big portion of your stack passively.

 

[Mandos]

I guess that's because I lost a lot of hands while being BB at the tourney I took part in, I found it rather unfair to lose a big portion of your stack passively.

I get that, but I find it helpful to think of the BBA as if you were loaned an ante each other hand that round and then you pay your round all at once when you're the big blind, which helps it not feel like you lost "extra" on the hands that you were BB and didn't win.
In fact, one of the things I like about the BBA is that my worst players tend to over-defend their big blind because they feel like they have more in play already, when the ante isn't really theirs that hand any more than on any other hand. Sure, once you get very short the ante hurts a lot, but the solution there is be more aggressive and make something happen before getting blinded out, which is also an improvement to tournament play, and I'm ok punishing players who haven't found a spot to shove before they get down to 2BB.

 

[TudiscoKid]

You have to compromise somewhere if you want to fit in 5 hours. Personally I think 20 min is more than sufficient per level for a home tournament start to finish. The idea should be that the everyone has the button at least once per level. At 2 minutes per hand in a 10 handed game, this works out.

Also a 240*BB start is probably ambitious to fit in 5 hours as well.

For a 4 hour tournament, I do a 100BB start and blinds that follow a 2-4, 3-6, 4-8, 6-12, 8-16 progression. (Meaning I multiply each chip in play by those numbers.) Since you use T25 base it could look like this:

(Keep the 12K starting stack, but start at 50-100)
50-100, 75-150, 100-200, 150-300 (break 10m color up T25, 1h30 elapsed)
200-400, 300-600, 400-800, 600-1200 (break 10m color up T100, 3h00 elapsed)
1000-2000, 1500-3000, 2000-4000, 3000-6000 (probable end of tournament, 4h20 elapsed) 4000-8000, 6000-12000 (break 10m color up T500 & T1000, 5h10m elapsed)

Further levels 15 mins
10K-20K, 15K-30K, 20K-40K

I did take out the "8-16" levels of the progression for expedience (no 800-1600 or 8000-16000)

This gives you a smoother progression (no doubled levels anywhere), cuts between 40-60 minutes out of your time, and still should provide enough time for the button to go around every orbit.

Amazing, I think I'll go your way!

 

[TudiscoKid]

 

[JScott]

How many people do you have?

I run tournies with 14-18 players with reentry and an add on, and we usually get done around 5 hours including breaks using:

20k start, 20k reentry, 20k add on

BB Ante at all times
20 min levels

100/100
100/200
200/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
500/1000
500/1500
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
4000/8000
5000/10000
5000/15000

Hey bud, if I want to run the same tournament (15-16 players, same rebuys etc) but want it to go 4 hours, think going to 15 minutes with same schedule will work?

 

[Legend5555]

Probably. Shaving 5 mins per level over 12 levels cuts an hour. It really depends on number of rebuys and stuff though. I just know from experience that mine tend to run from 7:30p - 1a. And we play kind of lax with break time.

 

[JScott]

Probably. Shaving 5 mins per level over 12 levels cuts an hour. It really depends on number of rebuys and stuff though. I just know from experience that mine tend to run from 7:30p - 1a. And we play kind of lax with break time.

Yeah, I'm thinking this;

15 players:
T20K w/unlm rebuys until first Break
T5K add on for those that didn't rebuy
8PM start
Want it to end by 12PM

 

[BGinGA]

Add-ons should not be dependent on re-buys.

 

[JScott]

Add-ons should not be dependent on re-buys.

I make it so a player can relinquish their rebuy chip for $5K in chips at the end of the rebuy period.

 

[ItsAlwaysLupus]

I'm not. a big fans of speedy tourneys, I'm thinking 30mn at first then 25 or 20 mn.

Yep, we do shuffle behind with a second deck. I'm going to enforce limited time per player/buy time chips as well.

The timing is always the hardest part for me. I like longer levels. I hate getting to the point where its just shove or fold. But also, to not do that is going to take forever and people don't want that. Such a balance.

 

[BGinGA]

I make it so a player can relinquish their rebuy chip for $5K in chips at the end of the rebuy period.

That's only fair if people who re-buy get an additional 5k in chips on top of the stack size.

 

[JScott]

 

[ItsAlwaysLupus]

View attachment 1095822

Well played.

 

[TudiscoKid]

I'm trying to see if I can get rid of T25 and T100 during my tourneys (as they are used in Cash Games) so I'm trying to figure out a different set of denoms, starting with T500 and 100 BB

Any suggestions?

I have this in mind, but then then the blinds would need to double.

100.000 chips (Scheme #4)

-10 x 500
-10 x 1000
-7 x 5000
-2 x 25000
-
Blinds at 500/1000 (100 BB)

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm trying to see if I can get rid of T25 and T100 during my tourneys (as they are used in Cash Games) so I'm trying to figure out a different set of denoms, starting with T500 and 100 BB

Any suggestions?

I have this in mind, but then then the blinds would need to double.

100.000 chips (Scheme #4)

-10 x 500
-10 x 1000
-7 x 5000
-2 x 25000
-
Blinds at 500/1000 (100 BB)

I do use the base T500 for my tournaments and I think it's great. You don't need that many T500s either. T500/1000/5000/25,000 are the right denoms.

I use stacks of 6/12/12/1 for a T100k start. I add T25,000 to do deeper stacks.

My set has 100/200/200/100 of T500/1000/5000/25,000 so I can do 16 stacks like above, or 25 stacks of 4/8/8/2 if I need to stretch a large field.

 

[TudiscoKid]

I do use the base T500 for my tournaments and I think it's great. You don't need that many T500s either. T500/1000/5000/25,000 are the right denoms.

I use stacks of 6/12/12/1 for a T100k start. I add T25,000 to do deeper stacks.

My set has 100/200/200/100 of T500/1000/5000/25,000 so I can do 16 stacks like above, or 25 stacks of 4/8/8/2 if I need to stretch a large field.

Thanks for the input!
Isn't it better to have at least the same amount of the smallest value chips? 6 seems too little, doesn't it?

I have this many chips at the moment:

T500 x 100
T1000 x 50 (going to buy 50 more)
T5000 x 25 (going to buy 50 more)
T25000 x 0 (going to buy 50)
T100.000 x 25

So my total for tourneys of 9 players (let's say 10) with around 25 stacks in total with rebuys etc.:

Total chips:

T500 x 100
T1000 x 100
T5000 x 75
T25000 x 50
T100.000 x 25

Chips per starting stack:

100.000 chips per starting stack:

T500 x 10
T1000 x 10
T5000 x 7
T25000 x 2

Blinds start at 500/1000 (100 BB)

_

What do you think?

 

[JustinInMN]

Isn't it better to have at least the same amount of the smallest value chips? 6 seems too little, doesn't it?

I have this many chips at the moment:

T500 x 100
T1000 x 50 (going to buy 50 more)
T5000 x 25 (going to buy 50 more)
T25000 x 0 (going to buy 50)
T100.000 x 25

Not necessarily. Considering the jump from T500 to T1000 is only 2x (meaning you never need more than one such chip to construct any legal wager since two chips equal the next denom up), you actually can get away with far fewer of the lower chips.

So my total for tourneys of 9 players (let's say 10) with around 25 stacks in total with rebuys etc.:

Total chips:

T500 x 100
T1000 x 100
T5000 x 75
T25000 x 50
T100.000 x 25

Chips per starting stack:

100.000 chips per starting stack:

T500 x 10
T1000 x 10
T5000 x 7
T25000 x 2

Blinds start at 500/1000 (100 BB)

This still absolutely works. Though honestly, I might just do extra T25K chips instead of T100K chips. The latter just won't get in play very often (unless you do deep stacks like T200K) and doing re-entries using T25Ks makes more playable chips when introduced.

 

[TudiscoKid]

Not necessarily. Considering the jump from T500 to T1000 is only 2x (meaning you never need more than one such chip to construct any legal wager since two chips equal the next denom up), you actually can get away with far fewer of the lower chips.




This still absolutely works. Though honestly, I might just do extra T25K chips instead of T100K chips. The latter just won't get in play very often (unless you do deep stacks like T200K) and doing re-entries using T25Ks makes more playable chips when introduced.

True, I guess it's just my OCD ahaha I find having less of the smaller denoms a bit off.

I'll get 50 T25000 to facilitate rebuys/add-ons. With 2 T25000 per starting stack, that 20 of them used for 10 players.
Which leaves 30 of them then, with 4 per rebuy/add-on, that's 7 extra rebuy/add-on with them alone.

I agree that T100000 will be a bit hard to break, but I already have them here (and they are so beautiful ahaha)

 

[Mandos]

(and they are so beautiful ahaha)

Any pictures?
Not gonna lie, my decision on how many T500 to have in play would also be affected by how pretty they are.

 

[TudiscoKid]

Any pictures?
Not gonna lie, my decision on how many T500 to have in play would also be affected by how pretty they are.

I'm using the Royal Card Rooms https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product/royal-poker-chips/