Am I over-reacting to Angle? (1 Viewer)

[Nystocktrader]

Dealer in seat 4.
2 looser player in hand, seats 6 & 7.
Pot about $150.Seat 6 puts in a barrel of $5s ($100) and not really paying attention.
Seat 7 tanks, then puts in 20 reds next to seat 6s stack in the middle and then sits back.

After a few seconds, dealer says CALL.
Seat 6 turns over Pocket Ks.
Seat 7 says he DIDN'T CALL, He was just checking the STACK size.

After table ALL say it was a call, he tells seat 6, If you want, I'll pay you.
Back and forth, seat 6 lets him off.

For history, seat 7 will a few time each night when faced with a large bet will say...
I'm ALL IN..... with my cards.

Friendly game, usually about $3k on the table by nights end. But this really pissed me off.
My GUT is... I don't want to play in this game anymore (Soft game).

Am I over reacting?

TIA

 

[DoubleEagle]

I hate angle shooters.

 

[Bill_Man618]

No, by chance do you play with Armenian Mike? He owes seat 6 the money. Once the money crosses the line and you take your hand off it is a call and is binding imo. Also, the I'm ALL IN.....with my cards thing should always be treated as a verbal ALL IN. I do not know why/how the host wouldn't rule it as such. If I was seat 6 I'd be pissed.

 

[Perthmike]

Seat 7 is a scumbag.

Pulls a scumbag angle and then tried to lay the guilt trip on seat 6.

Double scumbag.

 

[Saoliver]

Clearly an angle.

I'm ALL IN..... with my cards.

And this is bullshit. It should not have been allowed to happen a 2nd time.

 

[DoubleEagle]

I would take the host aside and tell him to put a stop to it or you will not be coming back.

 

[Coyote]

There can be no friends without rules.
Run the f*ck out of there, unless it happened just once, due to drunkness (NOT continuous drunkenness).

 

[Bill_Man618]

I would take the host aside and tell him to put a stop to it or you will not be coming back.

This 100%. In my opinion the host should have ruled that seat 7 owes seat 6 the money and there isn’t a debate to be had on it at the table. If seat 6 wants to give the money back after the game then that’s on him, but it is a call and seat 6 should get paid. If it was me I’d just not go back because it is clear to me based on both the situations described above that either a) the host just doesn’t care or think it’s a problem or the more concerning option b) that nobody at the table other than you see’s it as an angle.

 

[THRA5H3R]

Your chips speak for you if you don't verbalize, and if they cross the line, they're in.

 

[Saoliver]

Clearly an angle.


And this is bullshit. It should not have been allowed to happen a 2nd time.

 

[navels]

That would piss me off, too, but would not affect my decision to play unless it was accepted behavior.

 

[Coyote]

Yeah, I have played with foreign criminals in Greece using their own language among them at the table (instead of "either Greek or English at the table").
I didn't ever do that again, despite me having won a little bit.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Clearly an angle.


And this is bullshit. It should not have been allowed to happen a 2nd time.

This. After the first one, I would have cashed out and told them both, plus the dealer to fuck off. Every time I would hear the words "I'm All In...." I would bind him to the bet. He can go someplace else with that shit. It's not cute and leads to a poisonous game.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Am I over reacting?

Private games (I'm assuming) are a mixed bag. You haven't said anything about the friendly dynamic of the game. If the game is soft enough, or if you like the people well enough, tolerating some bullshit might be worth it.

Chips crossed the betting line - they're in the pot. Simple as that.

HERO is in a bit of a tight spot though... It's always tough when you're a guest in someone else's place. No one wants to be rude, but from the sounds if it, the 7 seat is a detriment to the game.

As to the 'all-in (with my cards) loI' situation, I wouldn't say anything unless I were active in a hand. In which case I would speak up and say: "That's binding. He said 'all-in' while still holding a live hand". If the host refuses to enforce the rules, rack up and leave. There should be plenty of other opportunities to play in your area where you don't have to deal with shit like this.

Dude needs to experience some consequences for his douchebaggery.

 

[Nystocktrader]

This 100%. In my opinion the host should have ruled that seat 7 owes seat 6 the money and there isn’t a debate to be had on it at the table. If seat 6 wants to give the money back after the game then that’s on him, but it is a call and seat 6 should get paid. If it was me I’d just not go back because it is clear to me based on both the situations described above that either a) the host just doesn’t care or think it’s a problem or the more concerning option b) that nobody at the table other than you see’s it as an angle.

Everyone at the table said it was a call.

Private games (I'm assuming) are a mixed bag. You haven't said anything about the friendly dynamic of the game. If the game is soft enough, or if you like the people well enough, tolerating some bullshit might be worth it.

Chips crossed the betting line - they're in the pot. Simple as that.

HERO is in a bit of a tight spot though... It's always tough when you're a guest in someone else's place. No one wants to be rude, but from the sounds if it, the 7 seat is a detriment to the game.

As to the 'all-in (with my cards) loI' situation, I wouldn't say anything unless I were active in a hand. In which case I would speak up and say: "That's binding. He said 'all-in' while still holding a live hand". If the host refuses to enforce the rules, rack up and leave. There should be plenty of other opportunities to play in your area where you don't have to deal with shit like this.

Dude needs to experience some consequences for his douchebaggery.

Very friendly, game been going on for years.
I'm the new guy..
About a year.
I'm up about 20 buy ins this summer. This game is more about fun than money for most of the players. Play is over my comfort zone but I'm +ev

 

[Coyote]

Play is over my comfort zone but I'm +ev

Run.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Play is over my comfort zone but I'm +ev

I take this to mean the stakes are above your comfort level?

If so, this is clearly the wrong game for you. Find a different one.

 

[timinater]

Host should have intervened and made the decision for seat 6. I’d make the guy pay me if I’m seat 6.

As to question at hand, yes it seems a bit of an overreaction to quit the game for good over one player shooting one angle.

What you do is file this away. This guy now has the scarlett letter and if you ever play pots with him, you confirm his action before taking action of your own, be it folding, calling, turning over cards. He’s an angle shooter until such time as his reputation is repaired.

If it gets out of hand, sure, quit the game.

 

[LeLe]

He clearly angling and some people are born asshole, let the group and asshole know that angling is a very asshole thing to do and only stupid asshole do angling stuff.

Preferably you are doing all this while wearing a T shirt saying that >>> This Asshole while standing next to him

 

[CHP TD]

Its a simple rule problem.

The game doesn't have rules. Thats the problem. Its the hosts job and he left it to the players.

leaving it to the players was just BS.

In fact id be livid.

He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and lied his way out. No integrity or honor in this guy. What a weak prick.

 

[surfik]

Just.... "take care" of him...

 

[10centguitar]

Dealer in seat 4.
2 looser player in hand, seats 6 & 7.
Pot about $150.Seat 6 puts in a barrel of $5s ($100) and not really paying attention.
Seat 7 tanks, then puts in 20 reds next to seat 6s stack in the middle and then sits back.

After a few seconds, dealer says CALL.
Seat 6 turns over Pocket Ks.
Seat 7 says he DIDN'T CALL, He was just checking the STACK size.

After table ALL say it was a call, he tells seat 6, If you want, I'll pay you.
Back and forth, seat 6 lets him off.

For history, seat 7 will a few time each night when faced with a large bet will say...
I'm ALL IN..... with my cards.

Friendly game, usually about $3k on the table by nights end. But this really pissed me off.
My GUT is... I don't want to play in this game anymore (Soft game).

Am I over reacting?

TIA

Foward motion

 

[grebe]

I take this to mean the stakes are above your comfort level?

If so, this is clearly the wrong game for you. Find a different one.

Respectfully disagree. No problems playing above your comfort zone if you do so with limits and stick to them....if you are working on your game, you should be taking some shots.

As far as the angle, I would not bail on the game just because of it, but I would damn sure not let him off the hook if it happened with me. You have seen his angles, exploit the shit out of them when he tries to pull that shit with you. I would be extra careful with my cards in this game as well...example: somebody tells me "two pair" without showing me cards, I would sit there until they show.

Now if the host decides to not hold him to the rules, that's when I would move on.

 

[ekricket]

You don’t have to use words “to call”. Actions are just as binding as words. He may need to understand that.
Or ask your host if it’s only verbal actions that count in his game.

 

[horseshoez]

Not an overreaction. You’re simply voicing your opinion on what is clearly angling. There is no way around. Even if the host somehow doesn’t make it binding when chips are placed in the middle, nobody in their right mind has to stack their chips against the bettor’s in order to gauge whether or not they’ll make the call. One can easily do the count visually without matching the barrel. He was essentially looking for that reaction in which it is determined a call, the guy flips open his cards or at least shows a reaction, and the other guy giving himself the opportunity to back out.

Soft game or not, game can’t be tainted by stuff like that. Your chips go in, your hand lets go, it’s a done deal.

 

[DeeVee8]

Clearly an angle. If the game is profitable, you can continue to play, but be careful.

In these situations, make sure that action is verbal and clear. You shouldn't have to do this, but the players in this game seem to require it. Anticipating these angles seems to be a must, and they can be sniffed out pretty easily when you're looking for them.

 

[upNdown]

This 100%. In my opinion the host should have ruled that seat 7 owes seat 6 the money and there isn’t a debate to be had on it at the table. If seat 6 wants to give the money back after the game then that’s on him, but it is a call and seat 6 should get paid.

Maybe not the point of this thread, but to me, the most important thing in this thread. 100% this - host needs to make a ruling. Its so unfair to let this angler victimize this guy for a second time by making the victim be the bad guy for demanding the chips.

This host sucks. If that's how these guys want to play - lots of bullshit and no rules, that's fine for them. But you can only do that when the money doesn't mean anything. If you're playing out of your comfort zone, well, I don't think this will end well.

 

[DeeVee8]

No, by chance do you play with Armenian Mike? He owes seat 6 the money. Once the money crosses the line and you take your hand off it is a call and is binding imo. Also, the I'm ALL IN.....with my cards thing should always be treated as a verbal ALL IN. I do not know why/how the host wouldn't rule it as such. If I was seat 6 I'd be pissed.

I'd agree that's true, but it all depends on how clear house rules are and how well they're enforced (if at all).

 

[DeeVee8]

Host should have intervened and made the decision for seat 6. I’d make the guy pay me if I’m seat 6.

As to question at hand, yes it seems a bit of an overreaction to quit the game for good over one player shooting one angle.

What you do is file this away. This guy now has the scarlett letter and if you ever play pots with him, you confirm his action before taking action of your own, be it folding, calling, turning over cards. He’s an angle shooter until such time as his reputation is repaired.

If it gets out of hand, sure, quit the game.

True.

It would have been even better if the dealer would have forced a declaration from the player before the action moved off of seat 7. It sounds like the dealer declared CALL for seat 7, so technically seat 7 didn't call.

Yes, we know he called with his chips, but this house evidently doesn't have those rules set.

I strongly believe in a dedicated dealer who knows how to handle this stuff. Our game is very fortunate to have 3-4 who are capable.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I would quit, but only after playing one more game.

Start by saying "This will be my last game because of the angle-shooting allowed. But if you are going to allow it, I'll stick around for a final farewell.

Then proceed to angle-shoot the hell out of the game. Push and pull chips. I see your $100... and raise you (pause until the next player acts). Go south. "Mis-read" your hand.

Either it will open their eyes, or you walk a very rich man. Win-win.