AITA: Pointing out a player who picks up their phone when contemplating a big call (1 Viewer)

[navels]

I'm not following why using an RNG is considered cheating any more than flipping a coin.

 

[upNdown]

Using the phone is a bad look. I will grab say 10 chips off a stack of 20 and look at the orientation of the inlay of the chip underneath. If it's more right side up/readable direction my decision is yes, if it's upside down then decision is no. Random outcome without using any device.

I dunno. If a guy randomizes his action without announcing that he's randomizing his action, is it really GTO?

 

[BarrieJ3]

Funny thing, I’m pretty well addicted to my phone generally speaking. But it disappears at the poker table.

I'm amazed at all the home game pics. My first meetup I think I posted.....0 poker pics. 2nd meetup.....maybe 1?

First 20 home games, I might remember to post a picture at the start, but prob not. I mean to take pictures each time, but it's poker, I usually forget right away and jump into the fun To help engage and because I'm hosting a meetup, I've made an effort to take and post some pictures recently. But it takes a conscientious and continued effort to do so.

This would be considered cheating in many many places.

I hesitate to call this outright cheating, but I could agree that it's in the same ballpark.

Not disagreeing, but what part makes it cheating? Because it's electronic? If @LeLe said I have a card capper that I flip to fold/call, would that be in the cheating realm as well?

But this is the player's biggest decision of the session. Could be a really poorly timed message from his wife to pick up milk on the way home?

I've actually been in this almost exact scenario one time. Normally I'm not on my phone at all during a game night, EXCEPT I have a wife and 2 small children. So I may glance to make sure I don't have a missing text once an hour or two.

I was getting ready to send wife a message about plans for the next day when before I knew it there was big action/decision in front of me. I wanted to think through it (rarely do I do that) and also pulled up phone to text wife. Naturally the table cajoled "he's pulling out his odds calculator", I replied along the lines of eff off, and we continued.

Much less potential deviance compared to what OP posted, but I knew that if I didn't send out that message, chances were my phone was being put down and I wouldn't remember again for the rest of the night.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Using the phone is a bad look. I will grab say 10 chips off a stack of 20 and look at the orientation of the inlay of the chip underneath. If it's more right side up/readable direction my decision is yes, if it's upside down then decision is no. Random outcome without using any device.

Yeah, something like this.

Nothing wrong with using what's around you to randomize. Introducing technology to do it for you is not okay.

 

[allforcharity]

I did the exact same thing that was described in the OP. Tanked a bit, took out my phone to check the time, because it was make or break for the entire night depending on my action. Sighed and called, no regrets. Won the pot.

 

[JScott]

I did the exact same thing that was described in the OP. Tanked a bit, took out my phone to check the time, because it was make or break for the entire night depending on my action. Sighed and called, no regrets. Won the pot.

Was it ?

 

[allforcharity]

Was it ?

No, it was 34o. Rivered my OE straight, but was up against a flush draw at the same time.

 

[JMC9389]

If the phone is being used to share opinions from other players at the table, that is a lot bigger advantage. There is a reason why the "one player to a hand" rule exists.

Sure, some people can't leave their games / social media. But this is the player's biggest decision of the session. He isn't playing one more move on candy crush. He isn't looking at TikTok videos, isn't watching a bit of porn while struggling for what to do in the hand. Looking at his incoming text message - that I could believe but I can't say it was or wasn't cheating. Could be a really poorly timed message from his wife to pick up milk on the way home?

My suggestion is the house should have a rule, you pick up your phone while in a hand and your hand is ruled dead. Then we don't need to worry about cheating or some other unfair advantage.

If someone is looking at porn while I'm tanking their river shove, I don't know about you, I'm insta-mucking.

 

[grebe]

Not disagreeing, but what part makes it cheating? Because it's electronic? If @LeLe said I have a card capper that I flip to fold/call, would that be in the cheating realm as well?

The fact that it could be other things as well. Push/fold charts, you could be asking somebody else what to do, Mike Postle type shit, etc.

 

[upNdown]

Not disagreeing, but what part makes it cheating? Because it's electronic? If @LeLe said I have a card capper that I flip to fold/call, would that be in the cheating realm as well?

Sure, because it’s electronic. You have to draw the line somewhere, and that seems like a good place. You could have a coin-flipper app on your phone, and that should be illegal too. Gotta have a line.

 

[TheJestyr]

Was there actual cheating in the OP? Who knows, can’t decide without getting in the villain’s head. But it’s a slippery slope and opens the door for cheating. Same thing about a random number generator or whatever on a phone.

In my opinion, anything that can send or receive info being used at the table during the hand is sketchy and opens the door for abuse.

 

[dmoney]

Was there actual cheating in the OP?

I think it's unlikely, but not impossible, villain was actually cheating. If I had strong suspicions I would immediately rack up and not play in that game ever again. As of now I'm planning to play again this week, but will keep a subtle eye on villain and other players, just to be sure ... a little bit of the old "trust but verify."

I spoke up because:

• It struck me as odd, and a possible cheating/colluding scenario. I had to look out for my own interests.
• I didn't appreciate it - wtf bro?
• The action was on him
• It's a tragedy of the commons type-problem. We should generally be discouraging use of phones at the table, definitely not while in a hand, and absolutely not while contemplating a decision in a huge pot.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I think it's unlikely, but not impossible, villain was actually cheating. If I had strong suspicions I would immediately rack up and not play in that game ever again. As of now I'm planning to play again this week, but will keep a subtle eye on villain and other players, just to be sure ... a little bit of the old "trust but verify."

I spoke up because:

• It struck me as odd, and a possible cheating/colluding scenario. I had to look out for my own interests.
• I didn't appreciate it - wtf bro?
• The action was on him
• It's a tragedy of the commons type-problem. We should generally be discouraging use of phones at the table, definitely not while in a hand, and absolutely not while contemplating a decision in a huge pot.

I felt this way back in 2019 when I had just begun to catch an actual cheat. He did one really blatant thing that, on its face, wasn't enough to prove cheating, but it was suspicious enough that I put on my sleuth hat.

Fast-forward to the last game before Covid-19® broke it up for a while, and I finally caught him in the act, after months of watching:

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/my-first-time-catching-a-cheat-yes-really.53927/

That said, the thing I spotted was way more suspicious than picking up a phone to ostensibly look at the time. It could be the case that that's all Villain was doing, but in a game with players I don't know well, and given his zero-contrition response, a bit of wariness seems warranted.

 

[echozero]

U did well. He should be warned at least. If not for the first time his hand should be folded, for the reasons you gave.

I’m a strong supporter of no electronic devices at the table. I do understand the boring side of live poker, and i can agree with the use of these in-between hands. But picking the phone and reading the screen is a no-no.

I agree with this whole heartedly. We all have families, emails we can't always ignore, et cetera. But if you're in a hand, leave the bloody phone alone unless the same person calls you repeatedly.

 

[chippitydoodah]

NTA.

You had a legitimate reason to speak up. Picking up his phone in this spot is not only bizarre but, as others have pointed out, could easily be exploited by unethical players to cheat. Many public cardrooms have rules specifically forbidding phone use while in a hand for this exact reason.

Using a phone at the table with any frequency is rude.

Using it while you have cards in an active hand is disruptive.

Interrupting the game to pick it up it while everyone's waiting for you to act is completely ridiculous.

 

[Gunnar]

I have played multiple games where if you pick up your phone and look at it in the middle of the game your hand is dead. You could have charts as your background or opening screen. Notes on players and what not.

It is harsh but I like it, if you folded then it is no problem but not when your hand is live.

 

[Samuel]

So umm what does the soon to be ex-wife look like (and what's the EV on dating her)??