AITA: Pointing out a player who picks up their phone when contemplating a big call (1 Viewer)

dmoney

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In a ~$1,200 pot (prob the biggest of the night at this 1/2 game) I get heads up on the river after two streets of 4-way betting & calling with three of the four players in the hand being solid, thinking players - me (UTG), main villain, and another player, with one fish who folded turn.

I open jam a paired board river and villain goes quite deep into the tank - talking out loud about what I might have, what he thinks, etc. etc. when he goes a little quiet for a beat and then picks up and starts looking at his phone. Of course we all had phones around during the night, but it really struck me as odd the way it happened, because of the tricky spot in the hand, and because he had been talking his way through things then paused, in my opinion.

I broke my stoic posture and simply pointed a finger, like "wtf is this?" He says "I was just checking the time, what do you think I'm doing?" He was mildly displeased but put his phone down. I said nothing and resumed my stone faced, silent posture. He called and we chopped the pot, both with AQ on a Q6376 board. He needled me for about 10-15 mins after in a playful but "truth in jest" kinda way. I'm sure I'll hear about it again - villain is the BSing/trash-talking/teasing type who will bring this up for sure!

AITA for doing this?

For background: I don't really know anyone in the game all that well, but have played maybe 2-3 times with villain, and 1-2 times with another player or two at the table. I'm definitely the relative new guy. Villain plays frequently in local games, and knew many (all?) other players quite well.

My first thought was that him picking up his phone was very odd at minimum, but also it struck me in the moment that someone could have sent him a quick message letting him know they folded a hand that could make a strong holding for me less likely, or something to that effect. Specifically, if another player, especially the other thinking villain in the hand, folded a 7 or a Q it would have made QQ and 77 both less likely for me given how the hand played out.
 
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Hmm I thought the story was gonna go another way, like there’s a guy who has an obvious tell when he picks up his phone while tanking, and you called it out and the other players think YTA for tipping him off to his tell. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

For your scenario, not sure YTA but depends on how accusatorily you did it and the vibe at the table. If he brings it up again ask him what he’d think/do if the situation was reversed.
 
Hmm I thought the story was gonna go another way, like there’s a guy who has an obvious tell when he picks up his phone while tanking, and you called it out and the other players think YTA for tipping him off to his tell. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
I wouldn’t say a word about someone else’s tell. That’s too valuable to be giving out for free!!

It was heads up and it was me protecting myself directly (or trying to) against a possible cheating/collusion situation against the villain.
 
Hmm I thought the story was gonna go another way, like there’s a guy who has an obvious tell when he picks up his phone while tanking, and you called it out and the other players think YTA for tipping him off to his tell. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

For your scenario, not sure YTA but depends on how accusatorily you did it and the vibe at the table. If he brings it up again ask him what he’d think/do if the situation was reversed.
I absolutely thought this, too.
 
If he was a whale, let him do whatever he wants. If he’s a thinking player, you handled it well and now you’ve just got to needle him back. Be typing on your phone and say “just checking the time”. If it’s done in a funny and lively way, it’ll be good for the game.
 
If he was a whale, let him do whatever he wants. If he’s a thinking player, you handled it well and now you’ve just got to needle him back. Be typing on your phone and say “just checking the time”. If it’s done in a funny and lively way, it’ll be good for the game.
Love this
 
U did well. He should be warned at least. If not for the first time his hand should be folded, for the reasons you gave.

I’m a strong supporter of no electronic devices at the table. I do understand the boring side of live poker, and i can agree with the use of these in-between hands. But picking the phone and reading the screen is a no-no.
 
I should also say I definitely believe checking the time is plausible either way: “I’m leaving soon anyway, I fold/call” and “I’m gonna be here a bit longer so I’ll call/fold and reload”

Something just seemed off to me in that moment. I felt like literally pointing it out and saying nothing was the best I could do to (potentially) protect myself and also not give away info about if I wanted a call or fold from him.

I think it seemed off to me because we were all clearly thinking through the spot in real time, and departing from that while contemplating an all-in call on the river in a huge pot was not what I would expect.

Even the guy who folded was intently tracking the hand after he folded the turn because the multi-way/ranges/betting/player-type dynamics were all factors on each street. It was a fun poker hand between three of the more thoughtful players at the table.
 
Before reading this, my vote was NTA. After reading this... maybe. :)
For the record, Villain was openly offering other players $1500/month to date his soon to be ex wife, with a $20k bonus if you can marry her and stay married for a year because that would save him money.

So a butt plug comment was not the most morally objectionable banter of the night by some margin.
 
NTA.

You had a legitimate reason to speak up. Picking up his phone in this spot is not only bizarre but, as others have pointed out, could easily be exploited by unethical players to cheat. Many public cardrooms have rules specifically forbidding phone use while in a hand for this exact reason.

Using a phone at the table with any frequency is rude.

Using it while you have cards in an active hand is disruptive.

Interrupting the game to pick it up it while everyone's waiting for you to act is completely ridiculous.
 
I f**king hate phones at the poker table. They slow down action, and unless your wife is due, your kid is home and you’re checking the monitor, we’re here to hang out… not browse Facebook.
I hate phones in general. The overall quality of all human interactions has devolved massively since it has become the norm for people's lives to revolve around their devices.

My former weekly game had a player who almost never put his phone down from the moment he sat down. Dude's eyeballs were like 3 1/2 inches from his phone the whole game, from beginning to end. He'd constantly have to be reminded to post his blinds, deal his button, and take his actions. Over and over and over for years.

It's a brutal addiction.
 
I do once in awhile use a number randomised to determine if I should call in very close spot with my phone.

And once the other guy also pointed out why I using the phone while making a decision, I just told him what I doing and ask him to chill. I do think it quite a tell that he doesn’t want me to call when he does that after the session is over
 
I hate phones in general. The overall quality of all human interactions has devolved massively since it has become the norm for people's lives to revolve around their devices.

My former weekly game had a player who almost never put his phone down from the moment he sat down. Dude's eyeballs were like 3 1/2 inches from his phone the whole game, from beginning to end. He'd constantly have to be reminded to post his blinds, deal his button, and take his actions. Over and over and over for years.

It's a brutal addiction.
Funny thing, I’m pretty well addicted to my phone generally speaking. But it disappears at the poker table. And it isn’t even intentional or anything, it’s just that I’m more interested in what’s happening at the table than anything else.
I’m talking mostly about a home cash game among friends that’s usually something like 7-handed. I guess I can understand getting bored if you’re playing 9-10 handed Holdem at the casino. But 7-handed amount friends can’t hold your attention?

But to the OPs point, I think what you did was fine. He might have been checking the time, and even though you can find excuses to do that, looking at your phone in that situation is inexcusable.
 
I do once in awhile use a number randomised to determine if I should call in very close spot with my phone.

And once the other guy also pointed out why I using the phone while making a decision, I just told him what I doing and ask him to chill. I do think it quite a tell that he doesn’t want me to call when he does that after the session is over
This is inappropriate. I get that what you're doing isn't meaningfully cheating, but it's unreasonable to expect other players who are competing with you for cash to take this at face value.

Find another way to randomize. It doesn't need to be perfect.
 
My former weekly game had a player who almost never put his phone down from the moment he sat down. Dude's eyeballs were like 3 1/2 inches from his phone the whole game, from beginning to end. He'd constantly have to be reminded to post his blinds, deal his button, and take his actions. Over and over and over for years.
I have a player like that. Or I should say "had" a player like that. I finally got the balls to say lose the phone at the table, or don't expect an invite.

It was fairly recent so we'll see what happens.
 
"Of course we all had phones around during the night"

your own words, so I don't think you can get mad.
I meant that people were definitely on their phones between hands, or maybe preflop/flop.

A far cry from being late in a hand, in a huge pot, with action on him, and changing from NOT being on his phone the whole time. He was attentive throughout as the preflop 3-better, and bettor on flop and turn. It was only when facing my open jam on the river that he picked up his phone after tanking & talking.

I see those scenarios as totally different. I only meant that phones were present throughout and common around the table.
 
"Of course we all had phones around during the night"

your own words, so I don't think you can get mad.
I wasn’t mad - but definitely put off.
I broke my stoic posture and simply pointed a finger, like "wtf is this?"

more this
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Than this
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I do once in awhile use a number randomised to determine if I should call in very close spot with my phone.

And once the other guy also pointed out why I using the phone while making a decision, I just told him what I doing and ask him to chill. I do think it quite a tell that he doesn’t want me to call when he does that after the session is over

This would be considered cheating in many many places.
 
This would be considered cheating in many many places.
I hesitate to call this outright cheating, but I could agree that it's in the same ballpark.

It's a very slight, very theoretical source of advantage, but a source of advantage nonetheless, provided by an external piece of technology. I wonder what the various gaming commissions of the world would have to say about this happening in a public cardroom.
 
I meant that people were definitely on their phones between hands, or maybe preflop/flop.

A far cry from being late in a hand, in a huge pot, with action on him, and changing from NOT being on his phone the whole time. He was attentive throughout as the preflop 3-better, and bettor on flop and turn. It was only when facing my open jam on the river that he picked up his phone after tanking & talking.

I see those scenarios as totally different. I only meant that phones were present throughout and common around the table.
This additional information makes me actually suspect cheating.

With a glued-to-phone type, it'd be a lot less suspicious. It's often just a compulsion with these people.

Compare this to a dude who basically never touches his phone. (Was it fully never the whole night, or just seldom?) Then he abruptly does it during a huge hand, at the exact moment he's struggling to decide on a huge bet? Shady as hell. I wish I could see what happened to gauge his body language.

To boot, after the hand he tries to pretend like what he did wasn't weird and inappropriate, and instead he needles you about it. Sure seems like he's setting the stage for doing it again in the future, and for you to feel weird about calling it out. (You know his exact words, so maybe this is not a good characterization, but I'd like to know what you think.)

Some cheats may slink in the shadows, but some cover their tracks with charm.

I'd keep an eye on this guy from now on.
 
If the phone is being used to share opinions from other players at the table, that is a lot bigger advantage. There is a reason why the "one player to a hand" rule exists.

Sure, some people can't leave their games / social media. But this is the player's biggest decision of the session. He isn't playing one more move on candy crush. He isn't looking at TikTok videos, isn't watching a bit of porn while struggling for what to do in the hand. Looking at his incoming text message - that I could believe but I can't say it was or wasn't cheating. Could be a really poorly timed message from his wife to pick up milk on the way home?

My suggestion is the house should have a rule, you pick up your phone while in a hand and your hand is ruled dead. Then we don't need to worry about cheating or some other unfair advantage.
 
My suggestion is the house should have a rule, you pick up your phone while in a hand and your hand is ruled dead. Then we don't need to worry about cheating or some other unfair advantage.
TBH, I think this is the best rule, but I know it would be tough to gain traction in the real world.

Powerful mini-computers with cameras and microphones being freely used at a poker game is way more of a game security threat than, say, failing to cut before the deal or burn before the flop.
 
I hesitate to call this outright cheating, but I could agree that it's in the same ballpark.

It's a very slight, very theoretical source of advantage, but a source of advantage nonetheless, provided by an external piece of technology. I wonder what the various gaming commissions of the world would have to say about this happening in a public cardroom.
"Against the rules" would be a softer way of saying it I guess.
 
I do once in awhile use a number randomised to determine if I should call in very close spot with my phone.

And once the other guy also pointed out why I using the phone while making a decision, I just told him what I doing and ask him to chill. I do think it quite a tell that he doesn’t want me to call when he does that after the session is over
Using the phone is a bad look. I will grab say 10 chips off a stack of 20 and look at the orientation of the inlay of the chip underneath. If it's more right side up/readable direction my decision is yes, if it's upside down then decision is no. Random outcome without using any device.
 

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