Tourney Advice for small home game with newer players (1 Viewer)

[Virtus]

As the title says I need some help structuring a home game with newer players. I host a bi-weekly game that usually has 4-5 players although on occasion we have had 8-9 players (I’m jealous of you guys that consistently get 10-20 players). A few of my regulars are proficient players that understand the subtleties of the game but we are all, including myself, more novice players and we sometimes have brand new players join us. The game is more about just hanging out, having a few beers, and BSing with friends than it is to make money.

We play NLHE and usually do a T10,000 structure with 12-12-5-6 (25, 100, 500, 1000) or 12-17-6-5. It’s a $20 buy-in with unlimited re-buys; we usually get 2-3 rebuys in a game.

Blinds are where things get interesting for me. Most of the guys have never played in a game with a blind structure prior to playing with me. I get a lot of bickering, mostly good natured, about the blinds increasing, especially above the 200/400 level; and they think the fact I use a timer is hilarious and regularly refer to me by a number of colorful names…

My ideal blind structure which I try to stick to is as follows with 25 minute levels although the bickering usually leads to longer times. We never go above 500/1000 and usually only reach that when we get to heads up play. We don’t do scheduled breaks, just whenever people need to use the restroom or get a refill.

Lvl 1: 25/50

Lvl 2: 50/100

Lvl 3: 75/150

Lvl 4: 100/200

Lvl 5: 150/300

Color up 25s

Lvl 6: 200/400

Lvl 7: 300/600

Lvl 8: 400/800

Color up 100s

Lvl 9: 500/1000


Has anyone had similar struggles or have any advice on how to structure a game like this? Ideally we like to play for 4-4.5 hours. I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a few barrels of 5k chips and doing T25-30k, maybe having larger starting stacks would make people more open to blind increases.

 

[Mental Nomad]

I get a lot of bickering, mostly good natured, about the blinds increasing, especially above the 200/400 level; and they think the fact I use a timer is hilarious and regularly refer to me by a number of colorful names…

It’s a $20 buy-in with unlimited re-buys; we usually get 2-3 rebuys in a game....

Maybe they actually want to play cash?

(Just throwing it out there...)

 

[trever]

Something my friends and I used to do is to double the blinds everytime someone got knocked out. You would want to start with a smaller stack size though.

 

[justsomedude]

I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a few barrels of 5k chips and doing T25-30k, maybe having larger starting stacks would make people more open to blind increases.

Remember, everything is relative in poker... just starting with 20k more chips won't help much, especially if your blinds start at corresponding higher values. On the flip side, if you start with 20k more chips, but keep the blinds the same (by starting with 25/50), then you'll be looking at a 8-9 hour tournament.

I think your blind progression is fine, although I'd actually recommend adding in a 25/75 Level 2, to avoid the 100% jump to 50/100. Blind structures should be smooth, and avoid large/inconsistent jumps/increases.

Here's a very similar structure I posted just a couple weeks ago. It's the same as yours, except I have a 250/500 level for a little more smoothness.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Maybe they actually want to play cash?

(Just throwing it out there...)

That was my first thought too. Play $.05/.10 or $.10/.25 cash game. Blinds never go up. They do several rebuys anyways so are used to spending more than the initial $20 of the tournament.

 

[mummel]

Yeah try a cash game. $25 buy-ins with 25c/25c blinds, 20x25c + 20x$1 starting stacks. With lower stakes, things are definitely more social and fun, at least in my crowd. We had a blast playing $10 buy-ins with 5c/10c blinds and 20x5c + 20x25c + 4x$1 starting stacks.

You could then rotate your cash and tourney game. Here's my new modified blinds structure for the exact same setup as you, T10,000 with 12-12-5-6.

This thread has BGs standard structure too:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/switching-up-some-blinds-ideas.18748/

 

[MillyS]

Blinds are where things get interesting for me. Most of the guys have never played in a game with a blind structure prior to playing with me. I get a lot of bickering, mostly good natured, about the blinds increasing, especially above the 200/400 level; and they think the fact I use a timer is hilarious and regularly refer to me by a number of colorful names….

This makes me LOL soo much. I have exactly the same issues.

 

[Mathieu]

No matter what you do people complain. No one is complaining about the blinds going up too fast when they have the chip lead.

I've noticed that over the years even when I switched it up to accommodate there was still complaining. Ask yourself what time you want to finish and structure the blinds that way.

I personally hold a Sunday night game. 7:30pm start and 11:00pm finish. and it always finishes on time no matter how many rebuys there were.

In the end it's your game. Do what you want.

 

[BeesKnees]

I experienced a similar problem, so we tried a $0.10/$0.20 cash game and the players liked it so much that we continued and eventually raised it to $0.25/$0.50. That was over 10 years ago and we still play almost every Thursday.

 

[BGinGA]

I think your blind progression is fine, although I'd actually recommend adding in a 25/75 Level 2, to avoid the 100% jump to 50/100. Blind structures should be smooth, and avoid large/inconsistent jumps/increases.

^^ This.

Most of the guys have never played in a game with a blind structure prior to playing with me. I get a lot of bickering, mostly good natured, about the blinds increasing, especially above the 200/400 level; and they think the fact I use a timer is hilarious and regularly refer to me by a number of colorful names…

Stick to your guns. They will be thanking you later if they ever decide to play in an organized casino tournament.

 

[BGinGA]

Your chart would be more illustrative and useful if it only showed the % increase of the total blinds from one level to the next. Totally unnecessary (and much less useful) to show the increase for the individual small and big blinds. It's just clutter.

By doing so, you will also see why L13 (2000/3000) is less than optimal.

 

[Mojo1312]

What are the most common criticisms? Do they complain that the pace of the game is too slow, or do they feel the blind structure is too aggressive? Personally speaking, I would have to really like the group of players to even consider hopping in my car for a four to four and a half hour $20 six player tournament. Is there free food and drinks?

 

[Mental Nomad]

Totally unnecessary (and much less useful) to show the increase for the individual small and big blinds. It's just clutter.

Very much agree.

From a game progression standpoint, what matters is change in the total of the blinds - the total is the starting point of the hand, which dictates the size of the hand.

From a knockout progression standpoint, what matters is change in the big blind - a sudden increase in the big blind and someone's stack size can change radically from one level to the next.

But the small blind? It never really matters. Too many people freeze themselves out of better progressions because they're trying to adjust to a small blind that should be a non-concern.

 

[mummel]

For my info, when does a tourney normally end relevant to the BB? For example, I think someone said T10,000 tourneys with 9 players normally don't go past 2000/4000. So say 2.5X starting stack to BB? Would that be accurate?

What about chopping 3 ways? When would a T10000 nine player tourney normally end in this case relevant to the BB? Like 1000/2000 etc?

 

[RiverAce01]

My home game has been just like yours for years. Although we usually start at 100/200 and do T20,000. Rebuys until a certain level. Generally 20 or 25 min levels We usually just double the blinds for every level then once we get to 1000/2000 we've usually been playing long enough where we decide to really bump the blinds just to speed the game up. We're alot like you guys...drink, talk, have a good time and just play some cards.

We just played our first cash game the other night. 10c/20c. Everyone had a great time and wants to do it again. So I would say bring that up with the guys you play with and see if maybe they'd enjoy it more than tournament style. The way I roped my guys in was "instead of buying in and having no guarantee of taking money home, everyone has the chance to leave with cash, even if it's below what you started with." The guys preferred that idea. Money talks

 

[BGinGA]

when does a tourney normally end relevant to the BB?

A good reference point for the absolute last level in any structure is when there are roughly 20BB remaining in play on the table.

A very loose/aggressive group may finish several levels sooner (or if there is one or two very large stacks pushing people around). Two heads-up supernits may last one level past 20BB, but they will eventually run out of chips.

 

[Blaster]

The

For my info, when does a tourney normally end relevant to the BB? For example, I think someone said T10,000 tourneys with 9 players normally don't go past 2000/4000. So say 2.5X starting stack to BB? Would that be accurate?

What about chopping 3 ways? When would a T10000 nine player tourney normally end in this case relevant to the BB? Like 1000/2000 etc?

tourny generally is over ( +/- a couple levels ), when the BB equals 1/20th of the total chips in play. .. In other words that is a level where with 2 players one player is going to have less than 10 BB's, or equal stacks would have just 10 BBs ea .
Edit: just noticed @BGinGA posted similar just before I finished posting...

 

[mummel]

Good info TY. So a T10,000 tourney with 9 players, with say 4 rebuys at the original starting stack will end when the BB is normally 6,500?

I don't think we've ever gone past 2000/4000 but good to know.

I was just thinking about the $20 buyin tourney, where the starting stack represents the actual buy-in, what the BB would need to be to end it. In this case, the BB would need to be $13 (9 players x $20 starting stacks + 4 x $20 rebuys / 20).

What if it gets chopped 3 ways? I guess the game will end when the lowest of the 3 stacks is <10BB, but how do I work backwards to determine the BB. Use 1/30th of all chips in play, so say $8.67 (or ~$4/8)?

 

[BGinGA]

So a T10,000 tourney with 9 players, with say 4 rebuys at the original starting stack will end when the BB is normally 6,500?

Not likely to get past the 3000/6000 level. Re-buys have less of an effect than extra players, and so should not count as full starting stacks.

A tournament chop can occur at any time, with any number of players -- impossible to gauge when they may occur. And knowing when they may occur is useless information in any case.

 

[Mental Nomad]

So a T10,000 tourney with 9 players, with say 4 rebuys at the original starting stack will end when the BB is normally 6,500?

You can think of it this way...

T10k tourney with 9 players and 4 rebuys means 13 buy-ins of 10k, or 130k on the table.

When it's heads-up, worst case, the chips are split 50/50, so 65k each.

When the BB is 6k, their stacks have only 10BB each.... and the blinds make the starting pot 9k to their 62k/59k stacks. It's not going to last.

If the chips are less evenly divided, the short stack is even shorter, and it ends even quicker.

Like BG says, the rebuys don't make much of a difference... double the rebuys to 8. 170k on the table... 85k or 14 BB each. It's still ending soon.

20 BB on the table is a great "absolute last" level... or you can look at it as the BB being 5% of the total chips in play, and that's it for the worst-case when it's evenly split. It usually isn't , so it won't even get that far.

 

[mummel]

Cool thanks. Yeah for that other tourney I was thinking about, I want to pay the top two spots, and end the game when player #3 busts out.

So estimating when player #3 busts out would be useful info to me, even if it's just a rough estimate.

I guess using 1/30th would be a fair guesstimate as worst case, all stacks are split evenly.

So in a $20 buyin game, with $20 starting stacks, 9 players, 4 rebuys, I'm guessing player #3 probably busts out around $3/$6 or $4/$8.

Helpful thanks.