Admin caught cheating (Long Story)

relobc

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I caught one of my co owners helping their friend rathole



Ill give everyone a different name for this story.



So I started an online poker club and ended up working with 3 other people. (4 owners)



This story involves 6 People

4 Hosts, and 2 players



"Owners/Hosts"
Ben
Greg
Joe
Me



"Players"
Bob
Junior


BACKSTORY

I knew Ben for awhile and trusted him much more than the other two.

Greg and Joe were best friends who lived in the same city and I didnt know them very well.
Bob was a very good IRL friend of Greg and played constantly in our club.

Junior was a player referred to the club by Bob

This club was started on an app were only 1 person can have "ownership" or be the GM of the club.
Im the one who naturally assumed that role as I was keeping track of all buy ins, editing info, basically GM stuff.

LEADING UP

So.... after a few months of working with these guys, Greg asks me about handing ownership over on multiple occasions and when I refuse he makes a big deal about it saying I dont "Trust them with ownership"
It seemed really weird to me as there isnt any reason to pass ownership around as the only thing an owner can do is demote mods.

This was when I first began to question Gregs intentions.

THE INCIDENT

Another month goes by and
Im sitting at the table playing, Greg is also playing.

The buy ins are being taken by Joe on this day(Gregs IRL best friend)

Player Junior buys in for $100.

I shortly cashed out afterwards bc I had things to do.
I messaged the admin group chat that Bob still owed me for a game a few days before. Since Greg was his good friend IRL I figured he could get ahold of him.

Greg sends me some screenshots of Bob saying "he thought he paid me" or whatever.

ok no big deal.... Bob owes me and all admins agreed not to let him play until he pays.
Then about 30 min later I check back on the table and I see that Bob has bought in. I also notice that Junior doubled his money and left.
Whenever I saw this happen the possibility that Junior and Bob were the same person crossed my mind, and I asked about it in the admin group chat.
Greg quickly replies "Junior is Bobs Friend"
I wasnt convinced though because I had never gotten a payment from Junior before.
I ask multiple times "What is Juniors Cashapp"

after a few Joe says something like "Bob always pays for him I think its his Roomate or something"

It was at this point I was convinced that Junior wasnt a real person and that these two admins (Greg and Joe) were allowing him to Rathole the table.
So I started looking and the past records for games, and also my own personal payment records; and noticed some things
1:Junior only played one time when I was hosting, and the payment for that was sent to me from Joe
2: Junior and Bob only played at the same table whenever Greg or Joe were hosting

THE COVER UP

So I spend the next few days gathering evidence and asking untargeted questions.

When I finally do Present them with my evidence that they were in on it and I ask for Payment records that show me otherwise
Greg gets really defensive, Demands ownership of the club, and refuses to send payment records.
Next day im creeping on Bobs Facebook and I notice that he has a little kid named Junior. Everything clicked
There is no way that Greg didnt know about Bobs son named Junior when they are good friends irl, while also being paid from the same person.

END

There was alot of other evidence but I dont think I could fit it all lol
What would you do in this situation? How would you approach this?
 

PlayerADK

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If you're certain they've been cheating (which seems likely) - how much money are you owed?

Get the money you are owed, then never allow them to play in the game again. Warn your friends who also play in the game, etc. Explain everything that went down. If it ruins the game, so be it.

Definitely don't give up ownership of the club - they're trying to scam their own "friends" - not a great situation.
 

skylines

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It's not really rat holing is it? Bob is multi-accounting (with Junior ID) and there might be collusion with Greg/Joe?
 

warma

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That sucks. Sorry to hear that.
 

Highli99

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That sucks - it a bad situation but don’t expect them to admit to anything. Safest bet is to remove them from your group.
 

ekricket

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Sometimes when I host poker I get a big stack early. If that happens I cash out, go to my room, and change my hat.

Then I come back and buy in for the minimum.

Works every time.
Sometimes I’m playing poker with @Lil Tuna and then I realize it’s really Craig in a different hat! Fools me every time!
 

Schmendr1ck

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Yeah, this is extremely sketchy. I'd be comfortable banning all four accounts. Try to get back any money you or other players are owed, but you might have to write that off. Getting them out of the game immediately is the higher priority.

Also, let the rest of the player base know what was going on - they will hear about it one way or another, so it's best if it comes from you. When something like this happens, transparency is important to maintain trust with the rest of the group.
 

ekricket

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I bet the “roommate” suddenly gets a job somewhere and has to move off, never to be heard from again. But Greg says you can send his money to Joe, he’ll make sure it gets to “Junior”.
 

Schmendr1ck

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Sometimes when I host poker I get a big stack early. If that happens I cash out, go to my room, and change my hat.

Then I come back and buy in for the minimum.

Works every time.
craig_hat.png
 

CrazyEddie

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It was at this point I was convinced that Junior wasnt a real person and that these two admins (Greg and Joe) were allowing him to Rathole the table.
What do you mean by "rathole" here? I thought it meant partially cashing out a winning session while continuing to play, i.e. taking some of your money off the table to make your stack smaller.

If you're right about Junior and Bob being one person, that's just plain cheating - having one player playing two hands.
 

Eloe2000

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I don't know, but this just doesn't sound like the type of environment where I want to be playing poker. Whether or not he did it, it is clear this is not a positive trustworthy environment for you. So, it doesn't matter if he did it or not. Focus on getting your money due and then boot these people or just dump it altogether and find new people to play with.
 

TX_Golf_N_Poker

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I caught one of my co owners helping their friend rathole



Ill give everyone a different name for this story.



So I started an online poker club and ended up working with 3 other people. (4 owners)



This story involves 6 People

4 Hosts, and 2 players



"Owners/Hosts"
Ben
Greg
Joe
Me



"Players"
Bob
Junior


BACKSTORY

I knew Ben for awhile and trusted him much more than the other two.

Greg and Joe were best friends who lived in the same city and I didnt know them very well.
Bob was a very good IRL friend of Greg and played constantly in our club.

Junior was a player referred to the club by Bob

This club was started on an app were only 1 person can have "ownership" or be the GM of the club.
Im the one who naturally assumed that role as I was keeping track of all buy ins, editing info, basically GM stuff.

LEADING UP

So.... after a few months of working with these guys, Greg asks me about handing ownership over on multiple occasions and when I refuse he makes a big deal about it saying I dont "Trust them with ownership"
It seemed really weird to me as there isnt any reason to pass ownership around as the only thing an owner can do is demote mods.

This was when I first began to question Gregs intentions.

THE INCIDENT

Another month goes by and
Im sitting at the table playing, Greg is also playing.

The buy ins are being taken by Joe on this day(Gregs IRL best friend)

Player Junior buys in for $100.

I shortly cashed out afterwards bc I had things to do.
I messaged the admin group chat that Bob still owed me for a game a few days before. Since Greg was his good friend IRL I figured he could get ahold of him.

Greg sends me some screenshots of Bob saying "he thought he paid me" or whatever.

ok no big deal.... Bob owes me and all admins agreed not to let him play until he pays.
Then about 30 min later I check back on the table and I see that Bob has bought in. I also notice that Junior doubled his money and left.
Whenever I saw this happen the possibility that Junior and Bob were the same person crossed my mind, and I asked about it in the admin group chat.
Greg quickly replies "Junior is Bobs Friend"
I wasnt convinced though because I had never gotten a payment from Junior before.
I ask multiple times "What is Juniors Cashapp"

after a few Joe says something like "Bob always pays for him I think its his Roomate or something"

It was at this point I was convinced that Junior wasnt a real person and that these two admins (Greg and Joe) were allowing him to Rathole the table.
So I started looking and the past records for games, and also my own personal payment records; and noticed some things
1:Junior only played one time when I was hosting, and the payment for that was sent to me from Joe
2: Junior and Bob only played at the same table whenever Greg or Joe were hosting

THE COVER UP

So I spend the next few days gathering evidence and asking untargeted questions.

When I finally do Present them with my evidence that they were in on it and I ask for Payment records that show me otherwise
Greg gets really defensive, Demands ownership of the club, and refuses to send payment records.
Next day im creeping on Bobs Facebook and I notice that he has a little kid named Junior. Everything clicked
There is no way that Greg didnt know about Bobs son named Junior when they are good friends irl, while also being paid from the same person.

END

There was alot of other evidence but I dont think I could fit it all lol
What would you do in this situation? How would you approach this?
So first of all, what the hell kind of an "app / club" is this? I see two major issues. 1) app allows multiple players from the same IP address, and 2) You allow multiple people to put chips into the players account with no confirmation that money was paid in first.

Kind of seems like you set yourself up for this one. I understand, you thought you were dealing with people you could trust, but it sounds like you gave that trust a little too easily. As far as the app goes, did you even check to see if you could prevent two players logging in from the same IP address? If not, then get a real poker app like Poker Mavens.
 

Nex

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I see two major issues. 1) app allows multiple players from the same IP address
Don't get a false sense of security here after you block multiple concurrent logins from the same IP address. You can use VPNs to circumvent this easily. Nowadays nearly every idiot can do this and many more people at least know about it. Don't trust any other technical measures touted as fit to prevent cheating/collusion either. It's a cat and mouse game.
 

CraigT78

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Don't get a false sense of security here after you block multiple concurrent logins from the same IP address. You can use VPNs to circumvent this easily. Nowadays nearly every idiot can do this and many more people at least know about it. Don't trust any other technical measures touted as fit to prevent cheating/collusion either. It's a cat and mouse game.
Don't even need a VPN - hotspot on the phone has a different IP than the home ISP.
 

TX_Golf_N_Poker

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Don't get a false sense of security here after you block multiple concurrent logins from the same IP address. You can use VPNs to circumvent this easily. Nowadays nearly every idiot can do this and many more people at least know about it. Don't trust any other technical measures touted as fit to prevent cheating/collusion either. It's a cat and mouse game.
I suppose so. Where there is a will, there is a way. This whole thing just makes my blood boil. Nothing pisses me off more than dishonesty and cheating...
 

TeamNapoli

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i think you should inform the entire club, 100% transparency and state your case so other members wont leave your club for another clubs being formed by Greg, bob\junior.

I agree with no credit chips, money on the barrel..it seems as the cardinal rule was broken

Now hearing your story i wont knock my nephews college games where they all zoom into the game. This way you know who is behind the cards.

If Greg is vouching for bob, he is responsible for the debt also, This is the way it is...at least were i come from. Tell greg Bob made a mistake, he thought he paid but he didn't, if payment isn't received in 3 days it comes out of Greg's account. That is if you can prove he didnt pay.

If the club burns down by these idiots leaving, count your lucky stars and find new members
 
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