Adjusting to good players (1 Viewer)

[MuDdy]

Hey everyone, I’m kinda new around here but here goes. For many years I had been playing with my normal group of guys, very low stakes $10-$20 a game usually no limit holdem. This group you could play loose or tight and it didn’t matter because people would be drunk and just play with any cards and usually ended up being a luck of the draw situation as to who would end up winning. Don’t get me wrong I won more than my fair share but the games were so unpredictable people would play hands and not even look at their cards all while raising all the way along, that kind of stuff.

That group of friends kind of broke apart and we only get together once every couple of years now. During the pandemic I started playing with a friends poker group and these guys are all pretty decent and are actively playing cards, not drinking and cards, there is some drinking but the focus plus on cards. This is over the internet/zoom. I’ve done ok playing with this group overall but I find that the times I win I play tight in the beginning and when there’s like 3 players left I have to get more aggressive than is my usual comfort zone. If I keep the tight play going my winnings seem to dwindle and eventually I end up losing. But I have a pattern of being the early chip leader and having it go to shit about halfway through the game.

I’m not giving any specifics but do you switch your strategy/play style throughout the game or stick to a method throughout. Any general advice on how to take the chip lead and extend that into more wins or cash finishes. I feel like for how many time it starts off great I should be winning more $$$.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

You should always be playing differently depending on the situation. Heads up. Multi-way pot. In position. Out of position. If you’re winning, even, or stuck. Against loose aggressives or rocks. The point isn’t winning or losing. It’s winning more when you’re ahead and losing less when you’re behind. There will be myriad different opinions on what to do in which situation but I would say start with being less predictable. If you play predictably the better players will know when to lay down and when to pressure you into a fold.

Just like in chess you want to think about the point of your move and what your goal is. That will be different against different types of players in different situations.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Figure out who folds to raises and who doesn’t. Who is put off by a flop c bet and who is more suspicious of your hand strength if they see you c bet. Who is capable of raising you in position with air or just to test you. Who is willing to overjam with just a naked draw and who is likely to call off your all in on the river even if they think they’re behind.

The more you play like this the other good players should adjust as well so there’s a constantly evolving meta of what is likely to work and what isn’t.

 

[KHarp1]

Is this tournament play, or, cash game?

 

[DirtyTIVA]

Is this tournament play, or, cash game?

Good point! Lol. It does read like a tourney in which case I say there are lots of books written about optimal play at various stages of tournaments. I’m just a donkey cash player who only knows how to bust out of tournaments holding AA.

 

[KHarp1]

Good point! Lol. It does read like a tourney in which case I say there are lots of books written about optimal play at various stages of tournaments. I’m just a donkey cash player who only knows how to bust out of tournaments holding AA.

Only way I know how to play them!

 

[MuDdy]

Is this tournament play, or, cash game?

Tourney play. Usually 6-8 seats per game, we play a mix of different games.

 

[floptheboat]

100% you have to vary your play depending on a variety of factors including (1) type of players in the hand (if you're in the hand with an aggressive player that is trying to explore your tightness, you need to readjust), (2) # of players in hand (the fewer the players, a tight strategy is harder to work)

 

[Eriks]

Question is too wide. Post some hands from various situations that has decision points that you’re unsure of.

 

[MichaelBubly]

You could be under-valuing hands later on. Playing tight later on can sometimes mean over-folding with marginal holdings when you are ahead. Which slowly bleeds you out when you are waiting for nutted hands late game. Could also mean your c-bet frequency reduces later on because you are trying to be conservative after bricking the flop which makes you easier to read and navigate for your opponents post flop. Minimizes your value and opens to the door for the opponent to apply pressure.

That being said, late tournament it's very easy to lose a flip and suddenly be on the back foot even if you played it correctly. Important to not be results oriented.

 

[MuDdy]

Question is too wide. Post some hands from various situations that has decision points that you’re unsure of.

I’m playing Friday I’ll post some examples, though I did vary my strategy and played more aggressively late game last time and ended up in the money on 2 of 4 games.

You could be under-valuing hands later on. Playing tight later on can sometimes mean over-folding with marginal holdings when you are ahead. Which slowly bleeds you out when you are waiting for nutted hands late game. Could also mean your c-bet frequency reduces later on because you are trying to be conservative after bricking the flop which makes you easier to read and navigate for your opponents post flop. Minimizes your value and opens to the door for the opponent to apply pressure.

That being said, late tournament it's very easy to lose a flip and suddenly be on the back foot even if you played it correctly. Important to not be results oriented.

I think your “undervaluing my hands” is what I’ve been dealing with. I tried loosening up a bit and being more aggressive when I was the chip leader and pushing people out of hands early, if they come back harder I was feeling the quality of their hands was better and could gauge my chances against them better. I was taking advantage of my stack better instead of hoping for the best cards to win.

 

[MuDdy]

So played on Friday with only 4 players. I felt that I got some good practice in playing when there are few players left. Generally I felt like I played well and had good cards in race situations but ended up losing out to bad draws.

I had AK vs AQ and lost one game and a similar situation on the other games. I did manage to take some bounties so it wasn’t all bad but in hindsight I’d probably play the same way if the cards came my way.

 

[Senzrock]

As others have said - you always want to be adjusting. Every game and every lineup is different and goes through its own ebbs and flows. You have to try to stay as attuned as possible to as much as possible. You want to know who is opening wide, who is playing a ton of hands, who is playing tight, who always has it at showdown, what is your image at the table etc. If you are playing with new players, it's fine to play tight and feel them out until you have reads. Sometimes all you have to do is understand who the best player is at the table and stay away from them. It's often easier to notice whos giving it away, and those players you want to get into more pots with, even if it means loosening up your raise/calling ranges.

As @Eriks mentioned - if you are genuinely interested in real improvement, a good start is by posting some hand histories. If it is hard for you to remember specific hand histories (completely with your own cards, villains cards (if shown), stack depths, bet sizings, live reads, game dynamics etc - if it is hard for you to remember these things than that should be the first thing you work on. A very broad/vague heuristic I like to use is that the poker world is divided into players who can recite hands easily and those that struggle with it. If you struggle with this, it will be difficult to win long term in poker. If you are good at it, keep using it to improve your game and figure out how best to play specific spots (eventually graduating to using software to help you).

 

[Mick]

Basically, your question amounts to: "How do I play poker?"

I've been actively playing and studying this game for 20 years, and I'm nowhere near to figuring it all out. It can't be "figured out". All you can do is make the best decision you can in the moment, and study in your down-time to better arm yourself for next time.

 

[KHarp1]

Basically, your question amounts to: "How do I play poker?"

I've been actively playing and studying this game for 20 years, and I'm nowhere near to figuring it all out. It can't be "figured out". All you can do is make the best decision you can in the moment, and study in your down-time to better arm yourself for next time.

In the words of The Dude, that's like your opinion, man.