Adding—or dropping—players (1 Viewer)

Taghkanic

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Starting a thread here about the etiquette and diplomatic challenges of both adding players and disinviting players to a home game. As a host, I find this is an important but tricky task.

Background for my game:

The game I host has been going on for nearly 10 years now. I’m the fourth person to host the game, which I’ve been doing for about 15 months now. The core group of players (about a dozen of us, in a two-table game) has remained steady with very little attrition. These are people who attend almost every game, unless there is a family emergency or major event. Even holidays don’t usually stop these guys from playing poker.

To keep the game at two full tables, it has of course been necessary to add people to the roster. To get 15-18 regularly, I have about 30 people who get invited at any given time. Some people become new regulars, others are part-time participants, some play only a few times a year, and a few try it but don’t come back. Very few regulars ever drop out, unless something changes in their life (money, family, job).

Whenever the venue changes, the unspoken rule has been that anyone who has been a regular in any of the previous venues gets invited to the new location.

Anyway:

The policy regarding new players has been that (A) the host obviously can invite anyone they want, and (B) regulars are encouraged to suggest new players. It is generally frowned upon for a newish or occasional player to propose new participants, but it happens.

If someone has a suggestion, they must run the name by the host. This is to ensure that there is no known issue with the person (bad blood with another player, substance abuse, known cheater, whatever) and of course that there is room for them to play in the coming week.

In a week where someone new has been invited, I first make sure that all regulars have had a chance to reserve before OK-ing their attendance, so that a regular is not denied a seat to a new person.

The presumption is that the first visit of a guest is a try-out. They and their sponsor can’t assume they will be invited back. Assuming they are a fit (know the game, are respectful of the house and the players), they get invited back.

On the rare occasion that the guest does not work out—and this has happened in only two cases since I started hosting—I simply do not invite them back. I try to let their sponsor know, as diplomatically as possible, that it didn’t seem to be a match, and let them handle any fallout. If the guest inquires about attending again, I try to keep it neutral. (“I’ll be in touch if we need more players, but we are usually full,” that kind of thing).

I have only had one situation where a regular had to be put on a timeout. This was due to a pattern of drinking excessively at the game, which made him more and more irrationally argumentative as the evening wore on. The timeout happened after he challenged another player to a fistfight outside. After a few months away, I re-invited the player, and he did come back on his best behavior.

So, with all that in mind (I know, way too long), I wonder if this is about the same way other people handle additions/subtractions from your home games. Do you have written rules? Have you had to handle any awkward situations?

(P.S.: Maybe there is already a thread like this, but I didn’t find one via search... Let me know if that is wrong and I will delete and repost in the existing place.)
 
One interesting situation arose when it was brought to my attention that a relatively new player—someone I thought was a great addition, who had joined the game a few months earlier—had a very serious criminal record. While he had alluded at the table to having had legal problems in the past, saying that he had done some “really stupid things” when he was younger, he did not disclose the nature and extent of those problems.

The news of his record was a big surprise to me; I never would have guessed. Asking around discreetly, I was told that he had been law-abiding and orderly for several years now since his conviction. The specific nature of his crimes were of direct concern to me as a homeowner.

On the other hand, this player had been nothing but polite, appreciative and a pleasure to play with.

This presented a dilemma: Disinvite the player? Give him the benefit of the doubt, since he seemed to be rebuilding his life?

Since the player had behaved well in the game and I would have no other reason to disinvite him, had I not learned of his past, I decided to keep him on the list. I do keep an eye out for any change in his behavior. I also took the step of briefing one of the other regulars I trust most (a former host of this game) so that someone else in the group would know of my concern, and would keep another eye out just in case.
 
I tell them no and I tell them why. Outs only happened twice in 10 years.


I had one situation where two guys came at the invitation of one of our regulars... They came to the game twice and were somewhat disruptive. Several regulars complained about their addition, including one who claimed these guys had been booted from another game for signaling to each other. I had no way of verifying this, but trusted the person making the allegation. So I denied their future attempts to attend the game, though they were very persistent about trying to come back, which made it awkward.

Obviously, I don’t allow people into my home that I don’t want there. But it isn’t quite as simple as just saying “no” when you have trusted regulars (some of whom are past host of this long-running game) who may want to bring unknown quantities into the mix. I try to handle it diplomatically, rather than just saying buzz off.
 
I lost a player because I wouldn't let him bring his drunken asshole friend to my house. Shit happens
 
I’m in a small community—one where you tend to see the same people over and over again at area games. So if possible I try to avoid overtly antagonizing players, even if there is zero chance I’d ever let them join my game. If I were in a big city, I could just tell everyone bluntly yes or no.

One exception was a guy I see all the time at more public games, who somehow heard about mine. I knew just wanted to try to poach players for his own game. Totally annoying guy, texting nonstop, wouldn’t take no for an answer... So I finally had to tell him off. But I still see this guy frequently at casinos and various social hall/underground games, so it created an awkwardness.
 
It sounds like you're handling it really well. I have a ton of experience with this and similar issues, and for games that are popular or actually need to solicit players, it's good to be vigilant. It's also good to be promoting your game so it will grow.

Having 2 or 3 of your regulars who are in touch with the local players and know their history and habits is invaluable. I normally handle it as you do and just don't invite people back if there's an issue. As for regs who act up, the timeout strategy works. In all instances if your players know you're acting in the best interest of protecting the game and promoting a fun atmosphere they're going to be supportive.
 

For my situation, “that“ is just too simplistic. I want to keep my regs happy, which includes them occasionally bringing a guest or proposing a new player.

Maintaining a roster large enough to guarantee two full tables means I have to work at it, and be open to new players. I can always guarantee about 12, but I never know for sure who will fill up spots to get to 18.

Often you can't be sure if someone will be a match until you try them. So you can't just make some macho snap judgement the first time they ask, unless you already know them . Per above, many players in the area I recognize, but others are unknown quantities.

So I like to trust my regs suggestions for tryouts; I then can say yes or no to future attendance, but it has to be done politely since these are friends of friends. If you disinvite a reg's guest/friend in a rude way, you risk losing that reg, too.
 
So you can't just make some macho snap judgement the first time they ask, unless you already know them . Per above, many players in the area I recognize, but others are unknown quantities.

Macho decision? I don't get what you mean by that. If your not a regular that plays in most of my games and you ask to bring an unknown player I'm going to say no. If @mike32 , @ChaosRock , @Azcat ect....ask then I will say yes 100% of the time.

If Andy asks to bring a guest I'll tell him no. Sometimes I don't even invite Andy pending what chips are hitting the felt lol.
 
Macho decision? I don't get what you mean by that. If your not a regular that plays in most of my games and you ask to bring an unknown player I'm going to say no. If @mike32 , @ChaosRock , @Azcat ect....ask then I will say yes 100% of the time.

If Andy asks to bring a guest I'll tell him no. Sometimes I don't even invite Andy pending what chips are hitting the felt lol.

So you're using the same method the OP suggests, or you always play with the same six people?
 
Macho decision? I don't get what you mean by that.


The tone of the earlier comment struck me as a bit of a tough guy stance—my way or the highway, no nuance about how to handle potentially sticky situations. No doubt I misinterpreted it.

My goal here was to discuss the diplomatic challenge of hosting. If I take a John Wayne attitude to either my regs or their guests, my game will eventually die. Of course, if someone is way out of line, then they just get booted/not asked back. But that is very rare.
 
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My situation is virtually identical. Trying to keep two (sometimes three) tables. Of course there is attrition (you are either growing or dying) so you must occasionally bring in very reputable players. For the most part we have a rock-solid core of about a dozen players.

We had a short time where the invites got a little out of hand, and we almost needed a 4th table (last minute cancellation saved me). While talking to one guy - who was extremely nice and pleasant, I found out that the guy that invited him had only met him a few hours earlier (at another poker game). Under normal circumstances, I would have kept this player. He was a very good player, and very nice/easy to talk to. But I didn't really know him. In truth, nobody knew him.

He didn't get invited back. The regular that invited him has not been invited back either.

I have just one rule for new invites, and one suggestion:
  • Rule Don't invite anyone unless you would let them babysit your children. My house is small, and I can't (nor do I want to) watch everyone. I don't hide away my pain medications. The cash box sits unlocked. My chips are freaking expensive, and some are between "difficult" and "impossible" to replace. If you don't trust them alone in your house, with your most impossible to replace items, why do you think I would?
  • Suggestion Bring food. It's not mandatory, but people notice. My group is not a bunch of guys sitting around smoking cigars, were men and women (mostly couples) having fellowship, food, and fun - in that order. Easiest way to fit in is to follow the local protocol. Bring food. If the game gets too big and I need to cut back on 1st round invites, the newer person that brought a platter that everyone loved will get the invite before the 3 year veteran that always shows empty-handed.
 
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Been hosting a game for several years. And I have only had to deal with this twice. Two guys were plenty nice and fun to play with. But they each has been a no show twice. No text, no call, just didn't bother to show up.So I stopped inviting them. One never asked or texted to get invited again (I think he knew he had blown it) The other guy asked to get back in and I told him no and I told him why. Short of a real emergency there is just no excuse for not contacting the host and letting them know.

A month ago I had a two table game so some new guys got invited. Acted all excited to play. Four guys who knew each other. So game night comes and one of them shows up and tells me the other three guys aren't coming cause they are going to watch the McGregor fight. Total BULL SHIT reason. Everybody knew the fight was that night and I purposely set the game up two weeks in advance because I was concerned that the fight might have been a draw that kept guys away. So I worked it hard and had 20 guys "confirmed." Game night four no shows. One of the aforementioned guys and three of these new guys. So they don't get invited back either.

There is enough stress in life without having to deal with bull shit like that.
 
A month ago I had a two table game so some new guys got invited. Acted all excited to play. Four guys who knew each other. So game night comes and one of them shows up and tells me the other three guys aren't coming cause they are going to watch the McGregor fight. Total BULL SHIT reason. Everybody knew the fight was that night and I purposely set the game up two weeks in advance because I was concerned that the fight might have been a draw that kept guys away. So I worked it hard and had 20 guys "confirmed." Game night four no shows. One of the aforementioned guys and three of these new guys. So they don't get invited back either.

In my experience, new players are far more likely to "flake out". They haven't seen the set-up and the effort I put out, so I get it. They may be expecting dice chips on a kitchen table. Others think I'm no different from a casino. Yet others may think its no different from any other party they went to in college.

Now when a new player wants to attend, I give my approximate location. It's a small town, 5 minutes to transverse from end to end. The day of they can contact me for the exact address. I cannot fill the seat last minute like that, so yeah, it's annoying but I never "think" someone is on their way. Unless they changed their mind since noon, I know.
 
I had a similar situation with uninviting a regular to our games. After a few weeks he was back and has been on his best behavior. Our invitation of guests is more extreme. We encourage regulars to bring multiple people (we have a smaller regular base) but if they bring a few newbies that don't make the regular cut - the regular may be cut.

I would like to add that our game is smaller in stakes and in size. We attract regulars through teaching and support. Ultimately, we are looking for people that want to develop a passion for the game. If they don't care, they don't fit well with the group.
 
Been hosting a game for several years. And I have only had to deal with this twice. Two guys were plenty nice and fun to play with. But they each has been a no show twice. No text, no call, just didn't bother to show up.So I stopped inviting them. One never asked or texted to get invited again (I think he knew he had blown it) The other guy asked to get back in and I told him no and I told him why. Short of a real emergency there is just no excuse for not contacting the host and letting them know.

A month ago I had a two table game so some new guys got invited. Acted all excited to play. Four guys who knew each other. So game night comes and one of them shows up and tells me the other three guys aren't coming cause they are going to watch the McGregor fight. Total BULL SHIT reason. Everybody knew the fight was that night and I purposely set the game up two weeks in advance because I was concerned that the fight might have been a draw that kept guys away. So I worked it hard and had 20 guys "confirmed." Game night four no shows. One of the aforementioned guys and three of these new guys. So they don't get invited back either.

There is enough stress in life without having to deal with bull shit like that.

As a boxing and MMA fan I think watching that fight was a must. That fight was the most hyped combat event in the last 5-10 years but I digress... What my group did was to combine the boxing event and a poker night. The boxing fight was really only what 10-15 min? We all shared the cost of the PPV IIRC and played poker for the evening.

We typically use any big event as a good excuse for a poker night including super bowl or any big sporting event. This way that sporting event becomes a draw to the poker night rather than an excuse to skip out...just my 2c.

I am interested in this thread as I am in the midst of starting up my own home game. We have a core group that plays regularly about 45 min from my house. Now I am looking to start a game in my town which is fairly small.

My plan is to try and schedule the poker nights during larger UFC events to create some extra draw and excitement. Also I started using Evite to send out formal email invitations. This has worked well so far as it creates a bit of formality as people need to RSVP to the email and confirm Y/N. Any way I will let you know how it goes. I have already had a few sticky spots where my good friends want to invite other friends that have cheated in past games... fun times.
 
Known cheaters would be the easiest ban ever. I'd rather have no game than allow 1 cheat in. Even if they "promise" not to cheat, they are far more likely to angle shoot and trash your game that way. Telling your friends would be just as easy - "No, they cheat".
 
Known cheaters would be the easiest ban ever. I'd rather have no game than allow 1 cheat in. Even if they "promise" not to cheat, they are far more likely to angle shoot and trash your game that way. Telling your friends would be just as easy - "No, they cheat".

Sounds easy when talking on the internet right... It's just different in real life. I am from a fairly small community where people have known each other for years. The guy who cheated has been playing with us at an annual get together for like 7+ years. We have all known each other for 15-20 years.

The situation in question happened at our annual summer weekend of poker. We are using 2 decks to speed up the game. Now when cheater "Chad" had the secondary deck and was pre-shuffling several people noticed him looking at the cards. And it wasn't just once he did this but several times in a row until someone asked him to please cut the deck. I didn't see it otherwise I would have called him out more directly. My friend who saw it is very rules oriented but also fair and wouldn't say it was cheating unless it really was. Cheater "chad" still comes to our summer poker meetup as it has been the same guys for years and I don't really have the power to un-invite. Now we just use 1 deck to avoid that issue.

Fast forward a couple years from when that happened to current day. Now I am planning on hosting my own game at my house. I am trying to follow all the good advice and build a sustainable fun group. I bought my chips, table, and furnished my poker man cave. I sent out invites for the first event but didn't send one to cheater "chad". Now my good friend is bugging me as to why I didn't invite him. I simply told him I don't want "chad" there cuz he cheated. My friend is still trying to convince me to invite him saying "he was probably just a few drinks in and looked at some cards...no big deal..."

It is worth noting that cheater "chad" is a consistently losing player and I don't think he has ever won a tournament or been a big winner in a cash game. He pretty consistently loses tbh.

I plan to stand my ground for now but hopefully we manage to have enough players as we are in a somewhat isolated small town.

EDIT. worth noting the stakes we play are always 10 NL or 20NL never higher. Our tourneys are usually around 20 buyin. No one is super concerned about the money it is mainly a fun get together to drink and take a break from kids/family.
 
Wait so this isn't related to Fantasy Football? Carry-on.
 
Alright, what about this variation...

Let's suppose there is a guy that is head and shoulders above the group in playing ability. Nice guy, good etiquette, brings/shares food and drink, etc, but plays super aggressive and mops up every time.

Would you drop him?
 
Alright, what about this variation...

Let's suppose there is a guy that is head and shoulders above the group in playing ability. Nice guy, good etiquette, brings/shares food and drink, etc, but plays super aggressive and mops up every time.

Would you drop him?

Depends on the stakes IMO. If you are playing for higher stakes then maybe. If it is more of a friendly game then def not. Poker at lower stakes is more of a social gathering. If the guy is cool and everyone is having a good time then keep him aboard....heck the "fun" players might actually improve.
 
Alright, what about this variation...

Let's suppose there is a guy that is head and shoulders above the group in playing ability. Nice guy, good etiquette, brings/shares food and drink, etc, but plays super aggressive and mops up every time.

Would you drop him?

I would hope not, personally I would like more good players in my game and I think it would bring up the level of play for everyone.
 
Alright, what about this variation...

Let's suppose there is a guy that is head and shoulders above the group in playing ability. Nice guy, good etiquette, brings/shares food and drink, etc, but plays super aggressive and mops up every time.

Would you drop him?

I've actually had to consider this once.

As my game grew bigger, a few of the new players were good. Really, really good. I had a couple of players drop because the game "got too serious". I had to decide - do I try to keep old friends or make new ones? I personally liked that new, impressive talent was at the game. One night I heard him telling other players (who asked) why he made certain calls or bets - and he gave honest answers. That cemented it. He had to stay.

In the end, it was an easy decision. He is a great addition to the group, even though we lost some of our founding players. He is willing to help educate, and is willing to play at stakes that are far below his skill level. He even stays every game if he is eliminated to help deal. Nice guy, good etiquette, brings snacks... is head and shoulders above the group... yeah, you described this guy to a tee.

That said, when you have a 2-3 table game, you can afford losses that you cant take if only have 6 players.
 
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