Absolute cheapest option for reasonably secure chips (1 Viewer)

[jbutler]

I was texting with @MegaTon44 and he properly observed that the chips used in the local club here are a complete travesty.

I had originally started this thread about some custom chips for the place, but they're dragging their heels on pulling the trigger on Game On chips at .60 per.

Dan said rightly that even China clays would be a vast improvement and I agree, but can custom labeled china clays be had that much cheaper than .60 per? I would still prefer Game On, but if China clays mean better chips immediately, I might inclined to pitch them.

I say "reasonably secure" because obviously custom labeled chips available on the market are not totally secure, but they are obviously worlds (universes) ahead of the garbage they have on the table now.

Any other options coming in substantially under .60 per?

 

[David O]

Old west at about .59 each for 2000. Go to sal's post about discounts. .55 each for 5000

 

[TheBigTater]

I'm just astounded by the chips some of these card rooms & casinos use. I can't believe that a lot of them don't take hits from folks consistently dumping .05-.10 chips from the outside on them.

 

[courage]

I can't imagine reasonably secure chips at a much lower price point than 60c each. Maybe monogrammed hotstamped unicorn plastics but I've no idea the price on those, and Game On Protechs are obv a great option.

 

[jbutler]

I can't imagine reasonably secure chips at a much lower price point than 60c each. Maybe monogrammed hotstamped unicorn plastics but I've no idea the price on those, and Game On Protechs are obv a great option.

When I was discussing the chips with one of the co-owners and mentioned Game On chips for .60 per, he said, "Yeah I know I could get hot stamped chips for less, but hot stamps chips are so ghetto."

I died a little inside, but kept my my my my my my my my poker face.

 

[atomiktoaster]

Custom labelled slugged plastic? Probably could get some at 30c/chip.

 

[mummel]

What China clays are you thinking about?

 

[jbutler]

What China clays are you thinking about?

None unless you can tell me how I can get them for substantially under .60 per chip.

 

[jbutler]

If quantity is a consideration they'd be looking at 2500 chips.

 

[mummel]

None unless you can tell me how I can get them for substantially under .60 per chip.

Blank Majestic or Milanos with custom labels?

 

[jbutler]

Blank Majestic or Milanos with custom labels?

No way to get those for "substantially under .60 per chip".

 

[manamongkids]

No way to get those for "substantially under .60 per chip".

PGI CC?

 

[Psypher1000]

I don't see how China clays are a great option here. Let's assume you're getting a reasonable deal on them at $.35ea. You've got to add labels and shipping on top of that, plus the labor involved in labeling. Assuming UV ink went into printing the labels, your total per-chip cost is going to be over $.60. Even if the UV printing via GOCC takes the chip cost to $.70ea, that's still well worth it.

All it would take is one or two outside hundos getting cashed to demonstrate the value of quality, secure chips.

 

[courage]

When I was discussing the chips with one of the co-owners and mentioned Game On chips for .60 per, he said, "Yeah I know I could get hot stamped chips for less, but hot stamps chips are so ghetto."

I died a little inside, but kept my my my my my my my my poker face.

My ghetto chips.

 

[mike32]

Hot stamped Ace Jack chips from Spinetti's. I've seen Washington State cardrooms that used them. Also charity room here in Michigan I used to play at used these. I am sure you could have Spinetti's make a custom die for one side (cheaper) then put denom. on the other. Bulletproof security no, but decent.

http://spinettisgaming.com/collections/poker-chips/products/ace-jack-poker-chip

 

[manamongkids]

or just show up with like 5 x $1000 of these and attempt to cash out http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Bulk-Lo...329796?hash=item418ee644c4:g:zKUAAOSwDN1UUDJv

maybe they'll get your point then

 

[Toby]

I'd be curious to know how much PGI labels with UV security would cost. They'd be a huge pita to knock off.

Failing that, UV stamp + blacklight

lol ghetto chips

 

[courage]

I had originally started this thread about some custom chips for the place, but they're dragging their heels on pulling the trigger on Game On chips at .60 per.

This is the same room that maintains a shuffle machine right?
Prolly the take from one night would more than cover fairly secure Game On customs.

 

[Psypher1000]

My ghetto chips.

The first step is recognizing the problem. The next: getting rid of them (and when you do, just let me know where you leave them so I can pick them up).

 

[DJ Mack]

Sorry I don't have a more constructive answer but the risk manager in me wants to know how the figure of 60 cents was reached?

To do this correctly one needs to mathematically figure the expected annualized loss if nothing is done. Expressed simply, this is (Threat frequency) x (Probability of success [%]) x (Expected loss per successful attack [$]).

So let's say you guess that once a month someone will try to slip some bad chips in. That'd be a frequency of 12 (per year). Because there are almost no controls, figure that 95% of the time they're successful. Then look at the normal cash out and adjust that (up or down) for how much you think a bad guy would try to take in a given attack. Let's say they cash out $250 an attempt. Your expected annualized loss would be 12x0.95x$250 or $2,850/year. Is that more or less than the club is willing to absorb on an annual basis? I don't know.

Maybe the club says bah, $3,000 a year is no big deal. Here's where theory and reality collide. Frauds tend to grow in quantity and size as successes are realized. If I'm a bad guy and I'm successful once a month at getting $250 I'm probably going to up my game a bit. Maybe go for twice a month at $350 a try. Perhaps I'll recruit some confederates to reduce the level of suspicion while increasing the overall haul. So while the club is OK with $3,000 a year there's no guarantee that they won't lose $10,000 in six weeks.

On the other hand if a few bad actors are caught on their first attempt and a very public example is made of them you might drive the threat frequency down to nearly zero. Likewise if you have strong controls (i.e. secure chips and solid cashier procedures) your frequency might drive down to zero.

It's not a question of if someone will scam you. It's a question of when and by how much. Taken to the extreme, refusing to spend on secure gaming equipment can literally lead to the downfall of the club overnight. I don't know what state this is in but there might also be regulations concerning gaming equipment that should be adhered to as well.

 

[courage]

Sorry I don't have a more constructive answer but the risk manager in me wants to know how the figure of 60 cents was reached?

Simply the cost of custom Protech chips from Game On.

 

[Forty4]

All it would take is one or two outside hundos getting cashed to demonstrate the value of quality, secure chips.

or just show up with like 5 x $1000 of these and attempt to cash out

Okay maybe a few $100's and a couple $500's take the proceeds and place the order for them. You prove the point and get to design a new set for free.

 

[Psypher1000]

I don't know what state this is in but there might also be regulations concerning gaming equipment that should be adhered to

I get the impression that, if such regulations exist, this club doesn't give two shits about them (I may well have the wrong impression), but...

It's not a question of if someone will scam you. It's a question of when and by how much.

This. All of this. Not to mention the amount of credibility that quality products can bring a place. At a minimum, quality, secure chips should help players...

• Feel more confident in the overall security of a joint and the games therein
• Feel classier because they're using higher quality "game balls"

I'd think that such things would help generate more/better players, but I suppose I could be wrong in that. Maybe the players other than Jack don't give a shit. *shrug*

 

[jbutler]

I don't see how China clays are a great option here. Let's assume you're getting a reasonable deal on them at $.35ea. You've got to add labels and shipping on top of that, plus the labor involved in labeling. Assuming UV ink went into printing the labels, your total per-chip cost is going to be over $.60. Even if the UV printing via GOCC takes the chip cost to $.70ea, that's still well worth it.

Yeah these were pretty much the rough numbers I'd worked up to come to the conclusion that GOCCs are the way to go.

Sorry I don't have a more constructive answer but the risk manager in me wants to know how the figure of 60 cents was reached?

Yeah, as @courage said, that's the cost of GOCCs and they are beautiful chips for the price. I'd only consider pitching something cheaper to them if the price was a lot lower.

FYI re: bringing in chips, they have an assload of $5s. I've only seen them put greens on the table like three times in 2 years of games running very strong 5 nights a week.

So yeah, you could potentially bring in some $5s and maybe some $25s if you keep them ever ready for when greens hit the table once in a blue moon, but you're unlikely to be able to take them for too much at once. And hopefully after one night of turning up with too many chips in the rack at closing, they'll give me a buzz and we'll be making that GOCC order...

 

[jbutler]

This is the same room that maintains a shuffle machine right?
Prolly the take from one night would more than cover fairly secure Game On customs.

Believe me, they've heard my rants. I will say that at least they maintain a nice place (that is rented exclusively for use as a poker club; it's not in someone's house/office) and keep good food and beer in stock. The co-owners work for a beer distributor, so we've almost always got a nice variety available.

Their nightly take is about $800 and they typically drop about $150 on food/drinks. Rent is $3k/month, utilities about $400/month (including cable/PPV packages). Figure in replacement and repair costs, they're probably clearing $85k-90k per year.

 

[Chicken Rob]

Believe me, they've heard my rants. I will say that at least they maintain a nice place (that is rented exclusively for use as a poker club; it's not in someone's house/office) and keep good food and beer in stock. The co-owners work for a beer distributor, so we've almost always got a nice variety available.

Their nightly take is about $800 and they typically drop about $150 on food/drinks. Rent is $3k/month, utilities about $400/month (including cable/PPV packages). Figure in replacement and repair costs, they're probably clearing $85k-90k per year.

Single table?

 

[jbutler]

Single table?

95% of the time single table. Every other Thursday is a tournament that usually gets three full tables.

 

[Chicken Rob]

95% of the time single table. Every other Thursday is a tournament that usually gets three full tables.

We need to be running card rooms. A 10 table room would be a nice nest egg builder.

 

[12thMan]

Hot stamped Ace Jack chips from Spinetti's. I've seen Washington State cardrooms that used them.

Just curious if you remember what WA casino uses them, I've never seen them but almost want to go play with them just to feel a little durty durty.

 

[jbutler]

We need to be running card rooms. A 10 table room would be a nice nest egg builder.

They could also get MUCH cheaper rent around here. I'd say they could cut their rent by half easily.