A player is now scared to play no limit due to last session. Has this ever happened to anyone else? (2 Viewers)

The title basically says it all. A good friend of mine no longer wants to play no limit based on our last session. He just sent a group text asking to change to a limit type game.

The last time we played, a few weeks back, we needed two guys so one of our regulars reached out to two friends of his who showed up to play. The two guys that came were not aggressive in the sense of being tight aggressive players nor were they necessarily good, it's just that their bet sizing all night was  way off! This in turned created some crazy pots even at the .25/.50 game we were playing that night. Pots were jumping from $3 to $20-$30 in the blink of an eye.

In turn my one good friend is now scared to play no limit. Since I bring the chips, my sets are geared for no limit not limit....I don't have the chip setup for that type of game.

I'd prefer to keep it no limit but I also get that this is for a fun time for all and it's not a casino.

Has this ever happened to anyone else and how was this resolved? I guess I need to expand my set for limit now? Thanks.
20-30 bucks? Tell him to learn to play better :ROFL: :ROFLMAO: Really when you have guys betting erratic or bet big, an easy solution is to play premium hands hard preflop. Punish the loose canons. Scared money isn’t going to do it. If he starts beating them, his attitude will change fast.
 
NL always eventually ends up ruining the game unless you have either a) people with unlimited deep pockets or b) a steady stream of new players

This is a generalization I just can't agree with. We've played NL (.25/.50, $100 max) for many years with pretty much the same crew and it hasn't ruined my game yet. Also, my players and I most definitely do not have unlimited deep pockets, I'd say the average income is around $40-$50K/year.
 
There is a mindset change that happens subconsciously when going up in stakes. It may not be relatable when you go from $3 to $30 bets but think if you were playing in a game where the $30 bet went to $3000. It goes from a couple of cocktails in a bar to betting mortgage payments. This is an extreme example but hopefully highlights the change in mentality that can happen when stakes go up.

I played the equivalent of 5c/10c in college and would feel sick if I lost $10 in a game - $10 meant missing a couple of meals. Now 5c/10c is meaningless. I'll happily play up to 2/5 for a limited amount of time but not regularly - I know my mental state changes and I would not feel like I was enjoying the game as much knowing that I could lose amounts that are no longer meaningless (but still not lifechanging).

It takes a lot of self discipline to detach your game play from the real money value on the table. Many can do this without problem but it's a skill that needs to be learned.
 
Tell your friend that learning poker isn't just about hand rankings and calculating odds

What's even more important is adapting to other players betting whether passive or aggressive.

If he wants to 'learn' the game. Tell them its time to put on big big boy pants.


I could go on, but I'd have to charge.
 
Agree on all parts. I guess I should clarify, 3 dollar pots was not the norm in the past. We get pots of +$10-15 or higher in the past.

On this occasion though, that freaked my friend, here's an example. Preflop betting brings a pot to let's say 3 bucks. Flop comes then all of a sudden. The 1 guy would jam $15 bucks or so in the pot of 3, the other buddy calls now we're at 30.

Stuff like that freaked him out while I was salivating......
 
Others have said already, If you try and please him, you'll end up pleasing no one.


you may just have to host 2 different nights. One with .25/.50 and another night 1c/2c
 
Others have said already, If you try and please him, you'll end up pleasing no one.


you may just have to host 2 different nights. One with .25/.50 and another night 1c/2c
This. I have a pool of about 14 or so players. Tend to get 5 to 7 players on average.

I host anything from 0.05/0.10 to 0.25/0.25. Some people come regardless of stakes. I do notice about 3 or 4 that come for 0.05/0.10 but not for 0.25/0.25. $100 a night even is too much for some of my players.

You can't please everyone @mburnznj . Just spread what you're comfortable with that'll get the most butts in seats. It gets tricky if the one wanting to move down in stakes is a good friend, but if he's a friend of a friend or an acquaintance you don't know too well, they can pound sand.
 
The title basically says it all. A good friend of mine no longer wants to play no limit based on our last session. He just sent a group text asking to change to a limit type game.

The last time we played, a few weeks back, we needed two guys so one of our regulars reached out to two friends of his who showed up to play. The two guys that came were not aggressive in the sense of being tight aggressive players nor were they necessarily good, it's just that their bet sizing all night was  way off! This in turned created some crazy pots even at the .25/.50 game we were playing that night. Pots were jumping from $3 to $20-$30 in the blink of an eye.

In turn my one good friend is now scared to play no limit. Since I bring the chips, my sets are geared for no limit not limit....I don't have the chip setup for that type of game.

I'd prefer to keep it no limit but I also get that this is for a fun time for all and it's not a casino.

Has this ever happened to anyone else and how was this resolved? I guess I need to expand my set for limit now? Thanks.

Were these two "new" players angling the game? Ie betting up the pot against each other in a seemingly big rivalry however the real goal is to drive other players out of the pot by folding against big raises then see each other down to a showdown with one player not showing their cards if possible.....at the end of the night they divide the initial stake and walk away.

In a standard non-wise home game this strategy can be devastating.
 
Tell your friend that learning poker isn't just about hand rankings and calculating odds

What's even more important is adapting to other players betting whether passive or aggressive.

If he wants to 'learn' the game. Tell them its time to put on big big boy pants.


I could go on, but I'd have to charge.
Way off bro. It’s about what beer you drink during the game that adds enlightenment. You can show me in May! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
One guy said he had two friends who would like to play and this is how they showed up.

Tried explaining to my friend this wouldn't normally happen. Guess it's poker PTSD.
Was it these two guys?


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Good call! These are the two types of fish: on the left is the one whos watched a couple High Stakes poker sessions on YouTube and thinks he can apply pReSsUrE, and the one on the right (who looks like Brad Owens after a decade or two of street living) is just there for a good time lol.
 
The title basically says it all. A good friend of mine no longer wants to play no limit based on our last session. He just sent a group text asking to change to a limit type game.

The last time we played, a few weeks back, we needed two guys so one of our regulars reached out to two friends of his who showed up to play. The two guys that came were not aggressive in the sense of being tight aggressive players nor were they necessarily good, it's just that their bet sizing all night was  way off! This in turned created some crazy pots even at the .25/.50 game we were playing that night. Pots were jumping from $3 to $20-$30 in the blink of an eye.

In turn my one good friend is now scared to play no limit. Since I bring the chips, my sets are geared for no limit not limit....I don't have the chip setup for that type of game.

I'd prefer to keep it no limit but I also get that this is for a fun time for all and it's not a casino.

Has this ever happened to anyone else and how was this resolved? I guess I need to expand my set for limit now? Thanks.
Coming in to this late. You may have already resolved this, but I saw a little of myself in your friend, so I wanted to comment before reading the rest of the thread. I will read it all eventually.

So this was me when I joined a game early last year. I've played micro stakes for years, mostly nickel / dime no limit hold'em with $20 buy-ins. But as I spent more time here on PCF and started collecting chips, I wanted to play more often, so I sought out new games. On paper, my new game seemed like a reasonable step up. It was $0.25/0.50 with a $40 buy-in. But what I wasn't prepared for was a couple of really good TAG players and a maniac. The games played much bigger than I expected or had ever played before. Which to me meant either go back to not having a game to play, or get better!

I don't think you should change your game. Your friend needs to get better, and he needs to understand how to control his stack and buy-ins. You didn't say in the OP what your buy-in limits are? That is a much better area of the game that you can control. Set the buy-in level to such that everyone is comfortable understanding that they might lose 2-3 buy-ins. That's poker. Some nights you double or triple up, and other nights you lose it all. Plus, in my own opinion, limit hold'em is a very boring game. You might make your friend happy, but lose several other players.

I never go to this game of mine with more money in my pocket than I'm willing to put into the game and possibly lose. Usually for me that's about $100-120. Others at this game may have $500-1000 or maybe even much more in their pockets. And eventually there are $300-500+ stacks on the table. Maybe more sometimes. Every game! Your friend just needs to learn how to play short stacked in a game like this. Playing short stacked can actually be a huge advantage in NLHE if you know how to play TAG. But as long as he never puts more on the table than he is willing to lose, then I don't understand what he is "afraid" of?
 
Coming in to this late. You may have already resolved this, but I saw a little of myself in your friend, so I wanted to comment before reading the rest of the thread. I will read it all eventually.

So this was me when I joined a game early last year. I've played micro stakes for years, mostly nickel / dime no limit hold'em with $20 buy-ins. But as I spent more time here on PCF and started collecting chips, I wanted to play more often, so I sought out new games. On paper, my new game seemed like a reasonable step up. It was $0.25/0.50 with a $40 buy-in. But what I wasn't prepared for was a couple of really good TAG players and a maniac. The games played much bigger than I expected or had ever played before. Which to me meant either go back to not having a game to play, or get better!

I don't think you should change your game. Your friend needs to get better, and he needs to understand how to control his stack and buy-ins. You didn't say in the OP what your buy-in limits are? That is a much better area of the game that you can control. Set the buy-in level to such that everyone is comfortable understanding that they might lose 2-3 buy-ins. That's poker. Some nights you double or triple up, and other nights you lose it all. Plus, in my own opinion, limit hold'em is a very boring game. You might make your friend happy, but lose several other players.

I never go to this game of mine with more money in my pocket than I'm willing to put into the game and possibly lose. Usually for me that's about $100-120. Others at this game may have $500-1000 or maybe even much more in their pockets. And eventually there are $300-500+ stacks on the table. Maybe more sometimes. Every game! Your friend just needs to learn how to play short stacked in a game like this. Playing short stacked can actually be a huge advantage in NLHE if you know how to play TAG. But as long as he never puts more on the table than he is willing to lose, then I don't understand what he is "afraid" of?
This is very good advice. I was like this too until I adjusted to the stakes and set reasonable expectations on a win/loss amount per session. It also helps to, in the sage words of @detroitdad , play better.
 
OP: “

A player is now scared to play no limit due to last session. Has this ever happened to anyone else?”​


Me - Yea, since my 2nd session in 2008. Can’t wait to play again.
 
How does a game of .25/.50 have $3 pots?

Don’t change the game.
Bingo! A $3 pot is 6 limpers. That's not even a normal opening bet with a call, plus blinds.

OP, your friend is in the habit of playing with players who are all extremely timid. Now he has been exposed to a couple of new, but totally normal styles of play. Time for him to either adjust, or find a nickel/dime game with $10 buy-ins.
 
Bingo! A $3 pot is 6 limpers. That's not even a normal opening bet with a call, plus blinds.

OP, your friend is in the habit of playing with players who are all extremely timid. Now he has been exposed to a couple of new, but totally normal styles of play. Time for him to either adjust, or find a nickel/dime game with $10 buy-ins.
100% agree. He only knows home games against others who don't have a rich history of playing. This was a culture shock for him.

My talk with him started out like this

And eventually ended like this:

I *THINK* he began to understand things but our next game will tell. I tried to emphasis that the game's dynamics change each time you play. Also, that while you are playing your cards, others are playing you. He didn't seem to say too much, think he was soaking it all in. He did thank me for opening his eyes up.

I told him is he's really serious about wanting to improve, I have books I can lend him. He doesn't have to be a pro but at least he won't be scared the next time we sit down at the table. We did end it with me saying essentially, you're going to have to learn to adept to the game/table or else you're not going to be coming to many more home game......and you can forget about me taking you to the casinos like you want me to.

Think we're scheduling a game for the next week so hopefully I have some positive stories to report.
 
The preface of my current project includes a discussion of this issue.

NLHE has its upsides, but it's a predatory game. Particularly when played as a cash game, this aspect can really turn off some types of players—and a lot of them are exactly the types of players you'd want to stay long-term in any game.

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This in turned created some crazy pots even at the .25/.50 game we were playing that night. Pots were jumping from $3 to $20-$30 in the blink of an eye.
This is not all that crazy in a 25¢-50¢ game. You get a 6-way limp pot for $3, and then someone $2 into it and it gets raised to $8 and 3 players continue, boom, $30 pot. Sounds like your friend just can't handle this stake level to be honest.

I see you a $50 max buy in for the game. My rule of thumb is the stakes are too high if players aren't willing to play at least 2-3 max buy-ins a night. Obviously the player in question isn't. Yes, you could do limit (but NL players rarely will accept that), and you could do spread or cap games, but I think the fundamental issue is the stakes are just plain too high.

So before you do anything radical, would the group consider trying a 25¢-25¢ game with a $25 or $30 max buy-in?

I dunno, I’d 100% rather play fixed limit than playing spread limit or no limit with a cap - I’d rather play a different game than some weird compromise. Of course, I’ve never tried spread limit or no limit with a cap, but they just seem like terrible compromises.
I used to host cap games for a while. In my opinion is works pretty well. As @FDLmold said above, you don't have to worry about max buy-ins in a cap game, you are instead capping pots. A lot of the deep stack dynamics disappear. Players with huge stacks don't have to play so careful against each other since they can only lose the cap back in a hand. They can play the deep stacks and small stack opposition the same. The only problem with cap games is that it just isn't popular. If it would catch on, cap games would be healthier than straight table stakes.

All of that said, I don't think a cap game is the solution to @mburnznj 's issue. The stakes are too big for the player.
 
Nobody has suggested the obvious: Let your buddy buy in short. You probably don't have a minimum mandatory buyin for your .25/.50 game, so introduce one. Set the minimum buyin to $5, and let your buddy short stack. Should keep him happy, and won't kill the soul of the game.
 
Been a while since I updated but things have leveled out. We've played since my original post and the 2 maniacs who instilled fear in my buddy haven't been back (not due to anything more than some of the regs have jumped back into the rotation). Although it is funny to see my friend ask to see who's on the list a day before our games. I guess some people won't change.

I will miss them though.
acb9de110cd0cbb3ce5087cfa7b4a233.jpg
 
That’s what makes poker exciting. It can vary and change with one player
 
That’s poker ‍♂️

It’s either limit or no limit. It’s hard to ask not to build big pots, even in limit.

If someone is worried because a few big hands, they shouldn’t be playing, they don’t have the money.

If you switch to set limit, there’s a big chance that the majority of your players will have less fun and leave. If you really like this guy, maybe have a set limit night they where you guys play seven card, limit Texas hold em, and a few other games. Heck add in Chicago and other split pot
 
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