99 v Hyper LAG Weird Spot (1 Viewer)

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I'll post results/ my analysis after some people chime in. See what yall think about this spot.

*I'm not usually flatting 99 on BTN. History with villain caused me to mix it up so please no "3!!!!". I know I know. *

Hero: Host. I have a pretty TAG image. Some think I'm nittish but I play more wide open than I get credit for. Have been pretty active for myself tonight; a couple squeeze plays have gotten through, showed T8ss on one. Dumped about 30BB earlier making an uncharacteristic (and unfortunately wrong) hero call pretty light. Stack around 75 BB.

Villain: Hyper LAG. Opening range is ATC. Highly competent but gets bored and spewy. Either drops his buy ins quick getting looked up or runs up a big stack through LAG. Tendency to spew big stack off applying too much pressure. One of my good friends we discuss HH and such the day after our games. We have a bit of a running leveling war raging. Stack around 100 BB

Villain UTG: Raises to 6 BB (table standard has been 4 or 5)

MP: Calls

Hero BTN: Looks down at 99. Calls

Blinds fold.

3 to Flop (19.5 BB)

K 8 3 rainbow

Villain bets 30 BB (?!)

MP folds

Hero tanks. Pot is 50 BB we have 69 BB behind.
 

derekdd23

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Fold unless you have some sort of read. If he is spewing badly you can wait for a much better spot.
 

Ben

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Nothing wrong with calling pre with position. These stack sizes and this villain might dictate a 3-bet a good portion of the time in this specific spot, but if you mean that you are USUALLY 3-betting 99 OTB when facing a raise (in the more general sense) I think that may be a mistake. I used to do that a lot myself, and it got me into trouble more often than I care to think about.

As played, fold. If he is competent his UTG opening range is NOT ATC and contains a fair amount of kings. He's never folding anything better to a jam with stacks as they are, and has positioned himself such that he loses 30 bb if he has air, and wins your 69 bb if he has anything. I think he has you beat often enough to make that an unprofitable spot for you.
 

kirchhausen

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Obviously this is either Fold or Jam, there is no point in just calling (would leave you 24BB behind in an 80 bb pot). I nit it up usually, but depending on how much history you have with villain Jam for value if you put him on a bluff is good.
 

grandgnu

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That's a really odd overbet by villain on that flop. I'm fine with the call pre, and I generally am folding on that flop without some crazy read on this guy. As others have stated, you shouldn't be just calling his flop bet, it's either get your stack in or fold. I lean towards fold.
 

jbutler

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need more information re: his spew lines v. his value lines. is it generally common for him to take weird overbet lines? how often does he think you could call once with a king and fold to a double barrel?

there are probably half a dozen players in my player pool i would call down here. and if you decide you're ahead of his range here, i would definitely flat. no point in jamming.
 
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need more information re: his spew lines v. his value lines. is it generally common for him to take weird overbet lines? how often does he think you could call once with a king and fold to a double barrel?

there are probably half a dozen players in my player pool i would call down here. and if you decide you're ahead of his range here, i would definitely flat. no point in jamming.


Sure; he loves to make huge overbets and weird lines as bluffs. Two of our more memorable hands were me calling down weird overbets on the river super light after being aggressor on previous streets and being good. Those hands were maybe 2 and 6 months ago.

He also loves to bomb his missed draws.
 

jbutler

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Sure; he loves to make huge overbets and weird lines as bluffs. Two of our more memorable hands were me calling down weird overbets on the river super light after being aggressor on previous streets and being good. Those hands were maybe 2 and 6 months ago.

He also loves to bomb his missed draws.

but does he balance those tendencies by overbetting with value hands as well? if not, it's an obvious call down. if so, i guess you will be reentering your leveling war...
 

detroitdad

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need more information re: his spew lines v. his value lines. is it generally common for him to take weird overbet lines? how often does he think you could call once with a king and fold to a double barrel?

there are probably half a dozen players in my player pool i would call down here. and if you decide you're ahead of his range here, i would definitely flat. no point in jamming.


I agree. In this situation about half the guys I play against that I would do the same. I think this situation is definitely villain dependent (if you know the opponents well enough I guess).
 

Chippy McChiperson

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Sure; he loves to make huge overbets and weird lines as bluffs. Two of our more memorable hands were me calling down weird overbets on the river super light after being aggressor on previous streets and being good. Those hands were maybe 2 and 6 months ago.

He also loves to bomb his missed draws.

Is there really enough in the pot for him to be bluffing by overbetting two streets like this without a premium hand? I get it if he bloated the pot with a draw, and then missed, but this hand is screaming big pocket pair or AK. I mea, you know the villain obviously, so maybe he does this from time to time, but even LAGs wake up with hands every once in awhile, and this seems like it is probably one of those awhiles.
 
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My Reasoning:

-V had not, to my recollection, been balancing his overbet bluffs with overbet value. V loves to push people off dry flops when he is the aggressor pre.

-I ranged villain something like 66+, AJs+, 87ss+ if he's getting bored. (Ben, you're right that since he's highly competent his UTG range is not any two cards. I should have notated that as being MP+ range is ATC. Was more just trying to portray how wide open he can be.)

-V is C-bet this flop with most of his range, I'm assuming. One of his leaks, IMO, is cbet too much.

-V knows my tendencies and knows he can typically get me off anything other than a K (unlikely) or AA (didn't 3!). V is firing with a lot of air here to take pot down on flop.

-That being said, V will give me credit for a K min if I shove. I rarely shove light...
Should V have a non-8 PP below KK, and I shove, I think he will fold.

-The overbet: I'm thinking V goes more in the 1/2 pot range if he has TPGK. PSB makes more sense for a bluff; would accomplish the same thing as an overbet while risking less.

Hero shoves.

V snapcalls. Shows AA. Leveling battle lost; leveling war rages on.

V said he figured either I had a K and would sniff the overbet as BS and stack off, or I whiffed and no monies to be made anyways.

V definitely did a great job exploiting his own image while also taking into account that I was opening up my game a good bit. That being said, he did agree that he felt 100% sure that my shove meant Kx. Said he would have folded TT-QQ in a heartbeat.

Overall I hate the way I played the hand, but, particularly against this opponent, I think it's a bit results oriented to be totally disgusted with my line of reasoning. V admitted he is both A. Firing with any air here and B. Folding a little chunk of his range (TT-QQ) that I'm behind, yet his UTG raise is weighted towards.

Def a weird spot to be in and I should have found a fold, though.
 
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jbutler

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meh, i wouldn't have shoved, but would have come to the same result if i had played the hand based on your reads since i would have called the flop and then called his turn jam. obv i don't hate the way you played it. sometimes you just have to call and lose.
 

DrStrange

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You don't get any drier than that flop. The villain is competent, so inclined to bluff on a dry flop. Could be the villain and Hero are good enough to level each other here. <shrug>

I think jamming is best. Villain has a lot of air in his range, enough for Hero to want to play back at the c-bet.

DrStrange
 

10centguitar

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Hard to say without knowing how often villian cbets upfront and by how much. Also what was his average PF raise amount?

These things and how he was behaving away from his baseline would dictate my play PF.

His raise PF to 6BB is not that unusual if the table average is 4-5 imo. Villian's UTG and you said he's a LAGtard.

In a vacuum, im shoving. Of course, in a vacuum i would have re-raised PF to like 20 BB.


On the flop:

If he was trying to get value, (set, TPTK) he would probably have bet less.

Of course you didn't give any info on what how much he typically bet on the flop when he did show down a hand.

Looks like a big C-bet trying to buy the pot with AQ-A10o. Maybe JJ but doubtful. In that case he might be pushed off his hand by you going all in. But does he chase things like 2 outers and gutshots when bored?

Also, aside from your TAG image, how many times had you been pushed out of pots on the flop, turn, river, by 3-bets and all-in shoves?

If it had been more than 3 or 4 in the session, particularly by the villian.....well you know.


"Tendency to spew big stack off applying too much pressure." you pretty much said it yourself.
 
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