$500 NLHE Hand from Today (1 Viewer)

chipsncoffee

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Hey everyone. I'm trying to keep really detailed stats and hand histories these days, and I wanted to go over a hand that played out today that was pretty wild! Let's get into it!

We're playing a 6-max $2.50/$5 table. Hero has been at the table for quite a while and has been playing loose, aggressive, and is around even with ~$540 in play. Villain has only been at the table for about 20-25 hands, but has made it clear that he's an absolute MANIAC. Villain has just under $600, and the rest of the table has been playing pretty tight/passive since Hero joined. Villain has been limping at least every hand from every position and has been raising pot with his good holdings.

Villain is UTG and limps for $5. Hero sees :ad::2d: and wants to try to isolate Villain, so we raise to $20. It folds around to Villain who naturally calls. We go to a flop of :7d::4d::th:. There is $42.50 in the middle (minus rake) and effective stacks are $520. Villain leads for $16.

Hero?
 

chipsncoffee

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Spoiler alert...

luke.gif
 

chipsncoffee

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Also, keep in mind that Villain's range is absolutely across the board. I've seen him showdown with hands like 93o, 26o, 84o, etc.
 

DrStrange

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The preflop was perhaps worthy of discussion. A2s isn't exactly a top drawer isolation hand, but it isn't a dog either. A2s surely does have a range advantage over any two cards.

At the moment Hero's equity is significant. However it is fleeting as much of the value is the draw - A2s isn't so valuable at showdown unimproved. Fold equity matters a lot to Hero. The question to me is when to pull the trigger. Villain hasn't committed many chips to the pot so far. $16 into a $42 pot isn't much of a commitment. The stacks are reasonably deep. The SPR (stack to pot ratio) is ~12. Lots of room to make moves.

If this is an on-line game, hero can't safely assume villain is a drooler. I'd be inclined to think otherwise actually. It would be a different matter at a live table. I also note that "wild and crazy" action for a handful of big blinds does not mean this is someone who is going to spew chips later in the hand. Does hero have any observations about how villain acts when the bets get bigger? It has only been ~20 hands. Could be we don't have much of a clue.

In either case, I think Hero should be calling here. He has position, let's make use of it. The call is surely +EV vs villain's range. I like to spring the "trap" on the turn when the bets are bigger as is the dead money.

DrStrange

PS but is there a reason to semi-bluff if villain is going to call Hero down with essentially any pair?
 

JMC9389

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The preflop was perhaps worthy of discussion. A2s isn't exactly a top drawer isolation hand, but it isn't a dog either. A2s surely does have a range advantage over any two cards.

At the moment Hero's equity is significant. However it is fleeting as much of the value is the draw - A2s isn't so valuable at showdown unimproved. Fold equity matters a lot to Hero. The question to me is when to pull the trigger. Villain hasn't committed many chips to the pot so far. $16 into a $42 pot isn't much of a commitment. The stacks are reasonably deep. The SPR (stack to pot ratio) is ~12. Lots of room to make moves.

If this is an on-line game, hero can't safely assume villain is a drooler. I'd be inclined to think otherwise actually. It would be a different matter at a live table. I also note that "wild and crazy" action for a handful of big blinds does not mean this is someone who is going to spew chips later in the hand. Does hero have any observations about how villain acts when the bets get bigger? It has only been ~20 hands. Could be we don't have much of a clue.

In either case, I think Hero should be calling here. He has position, let's make use of it. The call is surely +EV vs villain's range. I like to spring the "trap" on the turn when the bets are bigger as is the dead money.

DrStrange
Do you teach a poker class? I'll be your first student.
 

DrStrange

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Why yes, I do have a "poker college".

Classes are 7:00 to 10:00 Tuesday night and 2nd / 4th / 5th Saturdays. Tuition is paid in cash. No assurance students will ever get a diploma. A good time will be had by all with a fine dinner on the weekends. Plus lots of vintage casino chips :)

Sadly the poker emporium is closed in the time of Coronavirus. But someday it will reopen with even more wonderful chips.

DrStrange
 

JMC9389

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The only problem I see with setting the trap off of the turn is that hero is susceptible in the event the board pairs off. If villain goes into the flop with nonsense like 4/10o and they flop two pair, and even if hero gets the nut flush, hero is in for a world of hurt if the wrong card comes up on the turn or river.

The right play by the book is to call here, but if hero flops the flush, its best to try to get them out of the hand because it's so damn hard to nail their range down. It doesn't get the most value, but hero will play more hands with this villain and win more money over the long haul playing a little tighter and playing made hands more honestly, I think.
 

Moxie Mike

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Villain has only been at the table for about 20-25 hands, but has made it clear that he's an absolute MANIAC. Villain has just under $600, and the rest of the table has been playing pretty tight/passive since Hero joined. Villain has been limping at least every hand from every position and has been raising pot with his good holdings.
OK so this doesn't describe a MANIAC. This is more the description of a loose-passive fish who habitually pots it when he binks his garbo holdings. Very easy to play against if this is an accurate read - but there doesn't seem to be anything maniacal here.

As a point of references, 'maniacs' usually refer to the type of player who is liable to put in big raises and C/Rs with air, and can be very difficult to navigate with marginal holdings. Putting them on a hand is very difficult.

Villain is UTG and limps for $5. Hero sees :ad::2d: and wants to try to isolate Villain, so we raise to $20. It folds around to Villain who naturally calls. We go to a flop of :7d::4d::th:. There is $42.50 in the middle (minus rake) and effective stacks are $520. Villain leads for $16.

Hero?

OK so Villain leads out for a smallish percentage of the pot. This is usually a feeler bet from this type of player who probably has a hand like 10-9o, maybe 7x or perhaps a smaller FD. 8-9 (or 5-6) is also a possible holding. A medium pocket pair like 66 or 88 is also reasonably likely. As described, I would expect a set or flopped two pair to bet bigger. With nothing else to go on, I suspect the FD and/or SD is the most likely holding.

In this spot against this type of player, I want to take the lead here. HERO needs to continue telling the story he began preflop. I'd pop it to around $65.

If he calls (and he probably will), that will put $172.50 in the pot and HERO will have $455 left to barrel the turn. HERO can bet $120 on the turn and jam the river if he so chooses laying pretty bad odds to call on both later streets. HERO might consider checking back a troubling turn card such as a non-diamond 3, 6, 8, 10 or jack but I'm firing second barrel a strong majority of the time.
 

chipsncoffee

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I’m really curious as to why more people aren’t advocating for a raise here with the nut flush draw and the fact that the ace is most likely good here. This gives us significant equity against any hand, and we’re flipping against any pair.
 

chipsncoffee

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OK so this doesn't describe a MANIAC. This is more the description of a loose-passive fish who habitually pots it when he binks his garbo holdings. Very easy to play against if this is an accurate read - but there doesn't seem to be anything maniacal here.

As a point of references, 'maniacs' usually refer to the type of player who is liable to put in big raises and C/Rs with air, and can be very difficult to navigate with marginal holdings. Putting them on a hand is very difficult.



OK so Villain leads out for a smallish percentage of the pot. This is usually a feeler bet from this type of player who probably has a hand like 10-9o, maybe 7x or perhaps a smaller FD. 8-9 (or 5-6) is also a possible holding. A medium pocket pair like 66 or 88 is also reasonably likely. As described, I would expect a set or flopped two pair to bet bigger. With nothing else to go on, I suspect the FD and/or SD is the most likely holding.

In this spot against this type of player, I want to take the lead here. HERO needs to continue telling the story he began preflop. I'd pop it to around $65.

If he calls (and he probably will), that will put $172.50 in the pot and HERO will have $455 left to barrel the turn. HERO can bet $120 on the turn and jam the river if he so chooses laying pretty bad odds to call on both later streets. HERO might consider checking back a troubling turn card such as a non-diamond 3, 6, 8, 10 or jack but I'm firing second barrel a strong majority of the time.

I think we can safely remove any middling pocket pairs from Villain’s range given that he only limped, but maybe not! I’ve seen a lot of online players limp with hands like 44-77.

And you’re absolutely right. This player was not a maniac. He played super passively pre-flop and would them go absolutely BERSERK post-flop. That’s also an important piece of information.
 

FDLmold

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I’m really curious as to why more people aren’t advocating for a raise here with the nut flush draw and the fact that the ace is most likely good here. This gives us significant equity against any hand, and we’re flipping against any pair.
What do you do against a reraise? That's probably why most people are saying call.
 

TheJestyr

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So I'm coming at this from a slightly different POV...I'm the maniac at the table. Almost always.

I HATE when people just smooth call against me. I never know where I'm at. I just keep firing. If they just call, I keep betting. If they raise, I either fire back or fold...so let him fire the turn. You aren't really gunna narrow his range anyway on the flop, so let him hang himself. If he beats you, fine. He's just holding your chips a bit. You'll have opportunities to get em back. But I feel the best chance to win the most money long term is to just call the flop. Let him bet again on turn. Then call or raise accordingly.
 

judgeanjury

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I’m really curious as to why more people aren’t advocating for a raise here with the nut flush draw and the fact that the ace is most likely good here. This gives us significant equity against any hand, and we’re flipping against any pair.

I will say I am speaking from a tournament players perspective. I am terrible at cash games so the strategy is probably different.
 

Moxie Mike

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What do you do against a reraise? That's probably why most people are saying call.

Donk-betting into a PF raiser with the intention of re-raising is a pretty advanced play - one I don't think someone who comes into every pot regardless of price or position is capable of. In all fairness, I wouldn't advocate a raise against a competent player - or an actual maniac for that matter.
 

kmccormick100

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I’m really curious as to why more people aren’t advocating for a raise here with the nut flush draw and the fact that the ace is most likely good here. This gives us significant equity against any hand, and we’re flipping against any pair.
My standard play here is to 3x a small donk bet into me as the PFR and barrel the turn if I hit a diamond, Ace or pickup equity in the form of a 3 or 5.

That said, I personally enjoy a donking into PFR line when I flop a set or two pair in the hopes of getting raised by the PFR so I can build a huge pot.

I haven't seen many people lead top pairs small when there's a front door flush draw on board, they typically want to protect and will bet 1/2 to full pot. This play is usually indicative of a bottom or middle pair, an inferior flush draw or a flopped monster, so against that range I want to bring his weaker flush draws along and would rather not get it in against a flopped set, but you're only maybe a 2:1 dog at that point, so ymmv.
 
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