2nd Hand of Tournament (1 Viewer)

TomC727

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Disagree with many of the points here. Going home broke from a tournament within 5 minutes with a hand that was beat on the flop is not inevitable. I said earlier that given the flop, this was a hand that would win a little or lose a lot, unless the board paired. Turns out it was the latter. Betting bigger earlier (post flop) would have just gotten OP busted earlier.

V's passive play made sense to me. He flopped the nuts (unless the board paired later), and had a willing participant to bloat the pot without overtly disclosing his hand. If I had bet into an OOP player three times (pre, flop and turn) and he is still hanging around, I'm seriously considering checking back the river. Definitely folding the check-raise. Yes, lost value. Yes, also still playing in the third hand.

Cash game? Different strategy. All in early, make the draws pay large, and rebuy if V flopped the nuts.
This right here.
 

HaRDHouSeiNC

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$40 tournament
Id jammed the flop somehow cause I want it all in and either double up early or be done
I hate loosing half my chips the first level then just folding my way out later.
 

Senzrock

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Play a hand with me.

Second hand of a weekly live $40 tournament. No Rebuys. I've played in it maybe 5 times but never with the villain of this hand. There were 26 players in attendance. It's been about 2 months since I played any poker.

My stack $6200
Villain stack $6500
Hand #2 of the night.
I lost $300 in hand #1.
Blinds are 25/50

My hand TcTs and I'm in the cutoff.

Villain raises to 400 from middle position.

I re-raise to 800. Villain Calls.

Flop
Td 8d 4d.

Villain Checks.

What is the move with top set here?
Chiming in very late here, but I am firmly in the @grebe camp. Top set vs nut flush is just an unavoidable disaster. On nights like these, we go broke and we say to ourselves something positive like "at least this didn't happen to us on the money bubble."

I can't underscore enough how being worried about a stronger hand than top set will lose us a TON of money/equity over the long run. We know that in this specific case, it led to a short night at the table, but we (hopefully) are playing poker to improve and be profitable over the long run right? We are not just thinking about how short/long we play on any one specific night but are instead curious about what plays allow us to be at the tables longer over the span of many years (maybe a lifetime?).

Top set in a rebuy structure is always going to lose all (or nearly all) of his chips in these spots. Let's focus on maximizing gains when we flop top set instead of minimizing loses - I promise you this will lead to more chips over the long term. Having said that, there is plenty to zoom in on and play differently next time:

1. If blinds were really at 25/50 and villain raises 8x pre, that should just trigger and internal alarm which says "this player will often have a big hand here... maybe AA, KK, QQ, JJ or AK, AQ". When villain makes it 8x pre, I think flatting the raise is totally fine and might be the more profitable play (it's close). To a normal raise (2-4x the bb), I would be looking to 3bet. This in itself can be great insight if you can tell that it's somewhat reliable information.

2. Once you just call pre, the entire hand will play differently of course. You will still most likely lose it all, or close to it, but villain might end up leading out on the river instead, at which point you can just call and maybe save yourself a few remaining chips (again this should not be our goal but it ends up being a somewhat positive outcome).

Whatever you do, don't feel like a "donkey" for playing it the way you did. There was nothing wrong with your play, just unlucky. Keep focusing on bet-sizing moving forward, that should help. Thanks for sharing.
 

grebe

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Chiming in very late here, but I am firmly in the @grebe camp.

careful with that....


simpsons-villagers-pitchfork-torches.jpg
 
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rjbf65

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Chiming in very late here, but I am firmly in the @grebe camp. Top set vs nut flush is just an unavoidable disaster. On nights like these, we go broke and we say to ourselves something positive like "at least this didn't happen to us on the money bubble."

I can't underscore enough how being worried about a stronger hand than top set will lose us a TON of money/equity over the long run. We know that in this specific case, it led to a short night at the table, but we (hopefully) are playing poker to improve and be profitable over the long run right? We are not just thinking about how short/long we play on any one specific night but are instead curious about what plays allow us to be at the tables longer over the span of many years (maybe a lifetime?).

Top set in a rebuy structure is always going to lose all (or nearly all) of his chips in these spots. Let's focus on maximizing gains when we flop top set instead of minimizing loses - I promise you this will lead to more chips over the long term. Having said that, there is plenty to zoom in on and play differently next time:

1. If blinds were really at 25/50 and villain raises 8x pre, that should just trigger and internal alarm which says "this player will often have a big hand here... maybe AA, KK, QQ, JJ or AK, AQ". When villain makes it 8x pre, I think flatting the raise is totally fine and might be the more profitable play (it's close). To a normal raise (2-4x the bb), I would be looking to 3bet. This in itself can be great insight if you can tell that it's somewhat reliable information.

2. Once you just call pre, the entire hand will play differently of course. You will still most likely lose it all, or close to it, but villain might end up leading out on the river instead, at which point you can just call and maybe save yourself a few remaining chips (again this should not be our goal but it ends up being a somewhat positive outcome).

Whatever you do, don't feel like a "donkey" for playing it the way you did. There was nothing wrong with your play, just unlucky. Keep focusing on bet-sizing moving forward, that should help. Thanks for sharing.


Appreciate the response. I was going to lose a lot of chips in this hand no matter what. Probably didn't need to lose all of them like I did but it happened. Folding monsters isn't easy to do and I just couldn't find it that time. I did not have any experience with this particular player but in the past times I've played this game I have been surprised by the hands that were turned over in how weak they were compared to what I was expecting.

It was good to see a variety of responses from this hand. Proves to me that it was just a tough spot to be in.

Anyways, I've certainly moved on and had a nice profit in an online cash game with a different group this past Friday night. I was on the right side of some cooler hands this time. Easy come, easy go.
 
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