2/5/10 PLO River Decision (1 Viewer)

Anthony Martino

Royal Flush
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
12,581
Reaction score
24,640
Location
Round Rock, TX
game is 2/5 PLO with a mandatory $10 rock (posted by the winner of the previous hand)

Hero has had an up and down session. Bought in for $2,000 and saw that shrink to around $500 fairly early (lost a decent sized pot to a bad player who was raising after multiple limpers oop with 559J and made a set of 5's and then in another hand turned the nuts with blockers to a higher straight, got it all-in for stacks against another maniac who happened to raise preflop OOP with 667T? and we ran it twice (hero had JJ67 ds on the button) on a rainbow board of 2589 and Villain caught the J on the first board to quarter hero)

Hero recently has built his stack back up from $500 to $2,600 and has the rock in LP. Assume most of the opponents in this hand have stacks ranging from $800-1200

Couple of callers and guy in his 50's juices the pot with an extra $10 bet in EP. Hero calls on the rock with:

:ah::jh::6d::4s:

Six players and we see a flop of:

:9h::8s::6h:

It gets checked around.

Turn :2s:

Everyone checks to a hoody-wearing Asian kid aged late 20's to early 30's who is last to act on the button who bets pot of $130. Old guy who originally juiced the pot calls, Hero calls, three ways to the river:

:4c:

We check to the Asian kid who bets $500. Old guy folds, Hero ?????

notes on Asian kid: First time playing with him, whole table has been pretty limpy for the most part without much craziness.
 
Fold. Fold. Fold.

If Hero keeps looking to make (Hold’em) hero calls in PLO with crappy 2 pair hands Hero is not going to last very long in this game.

Flopped straights, sets, better 2 pairs are all out there.

Asian Kid could have flopped the bottom end of the straight and checked for pot control. Or more likely flopped a set or top 2 and checked back for pot control. Clean turn card and another round of checks to him and he feels pretty confident his hand is the best hand and starts betting. River doesn’t change much of anything (other than a possible small straight coming in) and he fires again for value.

What range of hands is Hero beating? There are so few 1 pair hands with missed draws that he could have. The hands Hero can beat like 9J10Qhh would have been raising pot preflop. So all the limp call hands will include a lot of 6,7,8,9,10’s and the combos of those that Hero beats are slim.
 
Last edited:
Also, Hero holds some key cards that we would want Villain to have if he was semi bluffing the turn , specifically the AJhh.

I like betting this flop as Hero a lot more than checking too. Hero is drawing to the nuts with the flush draw, has a blocker to the nuts with the J and can improve to trips or Aces up even if he behind a flopped top 2 pair. I would rather be putting pressure on hands like two pair or a small set than calling. Even the low end straight will probably just call.
 
Let me restate the action:

$510 in the pot, bet is $500, we have a pair of 6's. Call $500 to win $1000 or fold and surrender my $150 in calls.

Fold. If the kid has the stones to bet a weaker hand, he wins. Next time, continue flop.
 
Let me restate the action:

$510 in the pot, bet is $500, we have a pair of 6's. Call $500 to win $1000 or fold and surrender my $150 in calls.

Fold. If the kid has the stones to bet a weaker hand, he wins. Next time, continue flop.

Hero rivered a small 2 pair and is deciding to Hero call a missed hand like 910JXhh
 
The board has a pair, so we have a pair of 6s and lose to any hand that has an 8, 9 or 4.

In my mind be, we played it poorly and got a crappy run-out, so we have to pay a $150 penalty. No sense throwing good money after bad. Without a solid read on the kid, I'm assuming he beats our 6.

Maybe that's exploitable, but I don't like hero calling in Omaha.
 
You only lose to a few combos: 99, 88, 66, 44, 22, T7, 75, 35, 98, 96, 94, 92, 86, 84, 82

Let me do some calculations...

Equity times $500 plus pot odds divided by RIO minus your ICM =

*computing*

Fold. Two pair hands suck in omaha. :D
 
I vote fold.

Could be that villain was betting a big draw, though you have to wonder why he checks his draw on the flop only to open fire when the turn bricks and half his equity evaporated.

I think villain's line sounds like a strong made hand on the flop that wasn't the nuts. Perhaps a set or the dummy end of the straight?

Hero's turn decision was interesting too. There were seven clean outs to the nut flush plus two dodgy hearts that also pair the board. Hero paid 25% of the pot to draw but only has 16% to make the nuts plus 5% to river a non-nut flush which will cost Hero bigly on a bad day. So Hero has to get paid off something when he makes his draw and that depends on the table. In my mind this was a very close decision and merited careful consideration. Vs unknowns I think the turn is a fold > call >> raise.

Fold river, sign fold turn -=- DrStrange ( is a nit on Omaha )

PS the fact hero is considering calling with a crappy two pair on the river makes the turn decision even more critical. Of course Hero could be making a proper "Hero call" but mostly he is spewing chips vs the typical Omaha field I am accustomed to. If hero knows this about himself, then he shouldn't be making dubious calls.
 
There's no pair on the board, its

68924

We have two crappy pair, 6's and 4's

What hand(s) is villain repping here?

He can be value betting all straights, sets, top 2 pair. Being in position and having everyone check twice to him makes it easy to value bet those hands confidently.
 
He can be value betting all straights, sets, top 2 pair. Being in position and having everyone check twice to him makes it easy to value bet those hands confidently.

What does villain think myself or the other player hold that can pay off his $500 bet if it's for value?
 
What does villain think myself or the other player hold that can pay off his $500 bet if it's for value?

If it is a straight he is hoping you have a set or worse straight. He could also be merging his ranges to make it look like a bluff to get called by a non believer with 2 pair. Once in a while a weak 2 pair will be good here, but not often enough for me to call a pot sized bet, especially holding AJhh. There aren’t many bluffs left.

As Dr Strange said as well, if he had a big draw why wait until the turn to start betting it?

It feels much more like a decent made hand that played for pot control on the flop.
 
Unless I have a read on villain as being a player that frequently bluffs the river with air, I fold every time and don’t even give it a second thought. I think @Rhodeman77 did a good job of laying out villain’s range. All you have is a bluff catcher. Do you really think villain is bluffing more than a third of the time?
 
There's no pair on the board, its

68924
When you actually read the board and your hand correctly, this becomes more interesting.

Not sure why, but I was assuming the 4 paired the board, not your hand... I was tryna figure how how/why you would call with a pair of 6s and and pair of 4s on the board.

I just clicked the IGNORE button in myself... Carry on.

EDIT: Still a fold. Take that with a grain of salt. I can't even read the board in Omaha
 
Last edited:
The bluffs he would have would include a lot of nut flush draws, which hero blocks, bigger straight draws like J10Q but those hands are strong enough to raise a limped pot from the button. It is very hard to come up with more than small handful of bluffs that Villain can have as played that Hero beats.
 
Unless I have a read on villain as being a player that frequently bluffs the river with air, I fold every time and don’t even give it a second thought. I think @Rhodeman77 did a good job of laying out villain’s range. All you have is a bluff catcher. Do you really think villain is bluffing more than a third of the time?

Well, Villain is Asian male so that counts for something

If villain flopped the nuts and was checked to, last to act, given I have the nut flush draw, he would have to bet it. So I don't think he flopped the nuts

Likewise, if he flopped 2nd nuts, last to act and checked to, it's a must bet spot as well given he won't like a lot of turn cards

If villain flopped two pair or a set, last to act, he might check behind or bet, given turn cards can put him in a difficult spot

When a 2nd flush draw hits the turn, that's really all that changed in board texture. When everyone checks and he pots it then, it could be a steal, it could be a spade draw, it could be two pair or a set

I just don't buy he has the straight

When he gets two cold callers who both check the offsuit 4 river to him, we look like we missed straight or flush draws ourselves

The river 4 doesn't change much for his hand, as he'd need to hold 53 for that card to have made a difference

So when he bets $500, to me it looks like he doesn't want a call. All the draws whiffed and both of us checked to him

If he wanted a call, he'd likely bet something smaller since neither of us look like we can call a $500 river bet

To me, he can never have the nuts, and rarely the 2nd nuts since last to act on that flop should be betting 2nd nuts

And if he has a set or two pair, I don't think he's ripping a pot sized river for value given neither of his opponents have shown enough strength to pay it off
 
Fwiw, I did make the call, villain said "good call" and insta-mucked

I'm not in the habit of making hero calls or thinking that ANY two pair is great in this game

I just felt like the story he was trying to sell didn't add-up

The majority of the time I'm nitting it up, keeping pots small and multi-way and just trying to stack the guys chasing the bottom ends of straights, non-nut flushes, etc
 
Fwiw, I did make the call, villain said "good call" and insta-mucked

I'm not in the habit of making hero calls or thinking that ANY two pair is great in this game

I just felt like the story he was trying to sell didn't add-up

The majority of the time I'm nitting it up, keeping pots small and multi-way and just trying to stack the guys chasing the bottom ends of straights, non-nut flushes, etc

Did you have to table your hand? Guessing not. He should have tabled his hand proudly!! He spent $500 to see what you called him down with, I’d want to know how light I was called in that spot to use for the future.
 
I'd fold this river. His line does make sence for value betting large wraps that got there and sets.
He could have flopped set and pot controlled.
 
If villain flopped the nuts and was checked to, last to act, given I have the nut flush draw, he would have to bet it. So I don't think he flopped the nuts

Likewise, if he flopped 2nd nuts, last to act and checked to, it's a must bet spot as well given he won't like a lot of turn cards

If villain flopped two pair or a set, last to act, he might check behind or bet, given turn cards can put him in a difficult spot

When a 2nd flush draw hits the turn, that's really all that changed in board texture. When everyone checks and he pots it then, it could be a steal, it could be a spade draw, it could be two pair or a set

I just don't buy he has the straight

When he gets two cold callers who both check the offsuit 4 river to him, we look like we missed straight or flush draws ourselves

The river 4 doesn't change much for his hand, as he'd need to hold 53 for that card to have made a difference

So when he bets $500, to me it looks like he doesn't want a call. All the draws whiffed and both of us checked to him

If he wanted a call, he'd likely bet something smaller since neither of us look like we can call a $500 river bet

To me, he can never have the nuts, and rarely the 2nd nuts since last to act on that flop should be betting 2nd nuts

And if he has a set or two pair, I don't think he's ripping a pot sized river for value given neither of his opponents have shown enough strength to pay it off
Good analysis and elaboration. Thanks for sharing.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Back
Top Bottom