1000 chip microstakes AND tournament set (is it possible??) (2 Viewers)

[TwoHomie]

Hi all,

Looking to build re-labeled chipset as a gift for newly purchased family lake house. Since we play a mix of cash and tournaments, I’d like to build a set that can accommodate both.

Now, the obvious solution would be to get two, 600 chip sets and do two birdcages, But for the sake of saving some space on the shelf and keeping the cost down, I’d like to find a way to do a 500+500 cash and tourney set. So my question: Is it possible? Am I severely limiting myself by not doing 600+600?

A few parameters I’d like to try and follow.
Tournaments:

• 15-16player (2 tables of 8 or 3 of 5) would be the biggest the game would ever get. most likely it’ll just be 8-10 people
• Will probably use 25/100/500/1k/5k progression and so 5k-20k starting stacks. 8/8/4/7 is good with me, but more chips always better.
• Open to exploring the idea of a T100 base (does this make it easier for newer players?). Don’t think I’d use a BBA just because most players will be newer and these are just family tournaments

Cash:

• For cash, will likely just be 1 table, and mostly mostly .05/.10, but may (1-2x per year) as big as .25/.25 or maybe .25/.50. A $1000 bank would probably be more than enough.
• Would like to use a $20 chip, regardless of whether I keep a T25 in the tournament set.
• Even if unnecessary, I kinda want at least a barrel of $20s for the fun factor.

Some initial breakdown ideas for Cash (.05/.25/1/5/25):

• A: 100/150/150/80/20 - $992.5
• B: 100/200/100/80/20 - $955
• C: 140/140/140/60/20 - $880

some initial breakdown ideas for tournaments (25/100/500/1k/5k)

• 1: 120/120/80/140/40
• 2: 120/120/80/160/2

 

[Beakertwang]

Hello, and welcome to PCF!

8/8/4/7 works fine. 160/160/80/160/40 is a pretty standard 600 chip breakdown for two full tables, and you can do stacks of 12/12/5/6 for up to 15 players. 120/120/80/etc. won't work for 16, but it will save you 100 chips.

For cash, you probably won't need 100 nickels, unless your table will be doing a lot of limping, min-raising, and bets of 20¢ into pots of $3. . In my game, nickels are almost never used after the flop, and I always feel like there are too many. Maybe 80/100/200/100/20 would work great.

 

[ekricket]

Some things you can consider

-T5 or even T1 tourney setup
-Print a nickel label on one side and a T5000 on the other for a double duty chip
-Use a non-denominated chip for nickels or T5000’s
-Since it’s family use, consider all non denoms

 

[allforcharity]

You can try a dual-use set, with T5/T25/T100/T500/T2000 for tournament, and use for cash but divide all denoms by 100. Gives you nickels through twenties, and you can maximize your chipping dollar by getting as few chips as necessary.

 

[JMC9389]

You can easily facilitate a dual use microstakes cash/single table tournament set with 800 chips.

160 nickels or T5
200 quarters or T25
200 $1 or T100
100 $5 or T500
100 $10 or T1000
40 $50 or T5000

Put in the numbers with nondenominational labels and you're good to go. If you want your cash set to be deeper, get an extra 100 T500 to be used as $5 chips and you can spread a cash set well for stakes between 0.05/0.10 and 0.25/0.50 blinds.

Happy hunting!

 

[BGinGA]

I generally tend to discourage dual-purpose sets, because of the monetary and security risks they pose to the cssh game.

You can easily build a decent playable 10-player cash set with 600 chips, and 400 tourney chips will more than adequately cover a single-table event.

To address your specific requirements:

Tournaments:

• 15-16player (2 tables of 8 or 3 of 5) would be the biggest the game would ever get. most likely it’ll just be 8-10 people
• Will probably use 25/100/500/1k/5k progression and so 5k-20k starting stacks. 8/8/4/7 is good with me, but more chips always better.
• Open to exploring the idea of a T100 base (does this make it easier for newer players?). Don’t think I’d use a BBA just because most players will be newer and these are just family tournaments

A 16-player T25-base tournament set covering T5K to T20K starting stacks (100bb-400bb) will require at least 475 chips, if using a 8/8/4/7/x breakdown with no re-buys:
128 x T25
128 x T100
64 x T500
112 x T1000
43 x T5000 (11x used for color-ups with 16 x T10K stacks or larger)
-------------
475 chips minimum, which also allows for a single-table (10-players) tournament using T25K stacks (12/12/5/6/3). I'd round up to at least multiples of five (130/130/65/115/45), or 485 chips total. Rounding up to even 1/2-barrels is an even 500 chips (130/130/70/120/50), leaving 500 chips with which to build an 8-player single-table cash set.

For comparison, a 16-player T100-base tournament set covering T20K to T80K starting stacks (also 100bb-400bb) requires at least 448 chips if using a 10/4/7/x/x breakdown with no re-buys:
160 x T100
64 x T500
112 x T1000
75 x T5000 (11x used for color-ups with 16 x T20K stacks or larger)
37 x T25000
-------------
448 chips minimum, which also allows for a single-table (10-players) tournament using T100K starting stacks (10/6/11/7/2). Again, I'd round up to at least multiples of five (160/65/115/75/40), or 455 chips total. Rounding to even barrels is 480 total chips (160/80/120/80/40), leaving 20 free chips to add to the cash set (or 30-35 cash chips if you keep the T500 count at 65 or 70 -- you really don't need 80 of 'em).

The T100-base option does free up some of your 1000 total chips for the cash set side, and both tourney options will basically play identically (although only 8x small denoms in theT25-base set will require more change-making that the 10x of the T100-base set).

Cash:

• For cash, will likely just be 1 table, and mostly mostly .05/.10, but may (1-2x per year) as big as .25/.25 or maybe .25/.50. A $1000 bank would probably be more than enough.
• Would like to use a $20 chip, regardless of whether I keep a T25 in the tournament set.
• Even if unnecessary, I kinda want at least a barrel of $20s for the fun factor.

For cash sets, I typically recommend at least 600-chips (100/200/200/80/20) for a 10-player table. Scaling that to your 5c/10c single-table (8-player) game, you are looking at something along these lines:
80 x 5c
160 x 25c
160 x $1
80 x $5
20 x $20
-------------
500 total chips, which equals a $1,004 bank, or roughly $125 per player (at 5c/10c with a $20/200BB buy-in, that is 6+ bullets per player). At 25c/50c with a $50/100BB buy-in, that is 2.5 bullets per player.

It wouldn't hurt any to add more $1s for the micro-stakes game, and adding extra $5 chips will be helpful for larger 25c/50c games -- but you can always allow $20 and/or $100 bills to play if your game gets too large for the set.

First figure out which tournament set you want to go with, and if it's less than 500 chips, then fill out the cash set with extra $1s and $5s to total 1000 chips in the combo set.

 

[JustinInMN]

80 x 5c
160 x 25c
160 x $1
80 x $5
20 x $20

Great stuff from BG as always. I do want to offer an alternative suggestion on the cash bank.

I think doing 100 x 5c is better just because it gets you a multiple of 5 in the bank total which is helpful for spot checks. I think at these stakes $20 chips are absurd and even needing $5 chips is questionable, but if it's for the wows how about this?
100 x 5c
200 x 25c
140 x 1
40 x 5
20 x 20

Bank 795.

 

[BGinGA]

Great stuff from BG as always. I do want to offer an alternative suggestion on the cash bank.

I think doing 100 x 5c is better just because it gets you a multiple of 5 in the bank total which is helpful for spot checks. I think at these stakes $20 chips are absurd and even needing $5 chips is questionable, but if it's for the wows how about this?
100 x 5c
200 x 25c
140 x 1
40 x 5
20 x 20

Bank 795.

Absolutely great for a dedicated 5c/10c or 10c/25c game imo (especially the 100 x 5c = $5 aspect), but probably gonna run short on $5s for a 25c/50c table. Really depends on how he sees his game playing out over time. If he doesn't see playing much (if any) 25c/25c or 25c/50c, I like your breakdown better.

 

[JustinInMN]

Absolutely great for a dedicated 5c/10c or 10c/25c game imo (especially the 100 x 5c = $5 aspect), but probably gonna run short on $5s for a 25c/50c table. Really depends on how he sees his game playing out over time. If he doesn't see playing much (if any) 25c/25c or 25c/50c, I like your breakdown better.

Thanks, and to be fair, I don't think 500 chips is a fair expectation to cover that wide of a stake range. You came pretty close, though .

 

[JustDave]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but looking at getting a micro cash set and this is already going and I have some of the same inquiries.

As I understand it targetting 200 big blinds is a good way to structure a cash game. If people are buying in for 20$ then playing 5c/10c, that's 200BBs.

In this case lets ay 10 players at the table there is max 200 on the table. Even if a few folks get felted and rebuy lets say it's 260 or even 300 just for 'worst case'.

Why does the bank need to be 795 in this case? I get, to a certain degree you need to make change, but why does the bank need more than 2x what's on the table? $400 of this is just in that barrel of 20s, is that's what's driving it?

Dave

 

[allforcharity]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but looking at getting a micro cash set and this is already going and I have some of the same inquiries.

As I understand it targetting 200 big blinds is a good way to structure a cash game. If people are buying in for 20$ then playing 5c/10c, that's 200BBs.

In this case lets ay 10 players at the table there is max 200 on the table. Even if a few folks get felted and rebuy lets say it's 260 or even 300 just for 'worst case'.

Why does the bank need to be 795 in this case? I get, to a certain degree you need to make change, but why does the bank need more than 2x what's on the table? $400 of this is just in that barrel of 20s, is that's what's driving it?

Dave

I believe it's because games/players evolve over time, and generally to higher stakes or more rebuys. Having enough chips for your current bank, and then adding a margin extra (which is usually not too much because it can be all highest-denom chips) allows for some growth.

And some people (myself included), like some sort of high-denom chip as a "capstone" for the set, even if it's doubtful it will ever see play. For microstakes, that would likely be a $20/$25, and for 0.25/0.50 probably a $100.

 

[JustDave]

It makes sense, I have a barrel of $100s in my existing 25c cash set that will never see the table for exactly this 'capstone' reason.

I was trying to make sense of why cash sets seemed to have more chips than tournament sets.

 

[JustinInMN]

It makes sense, I have a barrel of $100s in my existing 25c cash set that will never see the table for exactly this 'capstone' reason.

I was trying to make sense of why cash sets seemed to have more chips than tournament sets.

Because in tournament sets chips get removed more readily than in cash sets. There is no point in having a huge amount of any denomination in a tournament set when needed denominations change in and out rather frequently.

In cash, the fewer denominations, the easier it is to count, and the more acceptable it is is to have higher quantities of the same chips.

 

[JustDave]

Because in tournament sets chips get removed more readily than in cash sets. There is no point in having a huge amount of any denomination in a tournament set when needed denominations change in and out rather frequently.

In cash, the fewer denominations, the easier it is to count, and the more acceptable it is is to have higher quantities of the same chips.

Thanks for the insight!