1/2NL: Ranging villains on an interesting flop (1 Viewer)

[Schmendr1ck]

This weekend I was playing 1/2NL and ran into an interesting hand. I'll run it as the standard "what would you do?" thread, but I'd mostly like advice on ranging the villains as the hand progresses.

Table:

It's 3am, and several new players just joined our almost-broken 1/2NL table. A few have been drinking, I know a couple super-loose players, but the two players to my right are both unknown to me. They just joined the table about two orbits ago, and neither has been very active yet.

Hero just lost a couple hands in the last orbit: flopped boat vs trips to a short stack, then a much larger pot QQ < 62s when SuperUltraMegaFish calls off his stack with bottom pair and a turned flush draw and gets there (and literally tells me after that he called because he felt it coming). Hero has gone from $355 to $130 and may appear a little tilted to the table. In reality, Hero feels fine mentally - not very tired in spite of the hour and accepting of the fact that good play can't always beat bad cards.

Hero starts the hand with $130, and all villains cover.

Preflop:

Folds around to the CO who limps, BTN calls, I complete the SB with , BB checks.

Flop ($8):

Hero is first to act. What's the action?

 

[Kain8]

Lead out for $5, starting building a pot. If you're fortunate enough to get raised, you can re-raise and get all-in on the turn no matter what since you're always first to act.

 

[Rhodeman77]

First thing I would recommend is to reload up to $300 before the hand if the table has a bunch of fish at. I don’t want to be the short stack at this table.

As played, I’m betting $15. This late and as loose as the game is playing the over bet won’t even register. I want to start building this pot up now so you can get your stack in easily.

 

[detroitdad]

First thing I would recommend is to reload up to $300 before the hand if the table has a bunch of fish at. I don’t want to be the short stack at this table.

As played, I’m betting $15. This late and as loose as the game is playing the over bet won’t even register. I want to start building this pot up now so you can get your stack in easily.

I was thinking 12, 15 also works

 

[DrStrange]

I agree a bet is in order. Mostly I ignore the size of the pot here - players aren't that attentive and don't see the difference between $8 and $15. Let's make a relatively big bet. Hero has a "go to war" hand right now. Let's shovel money in the pot.

The primary thing to fear is a three way pot with big action. Nut flush draw vs over pair vs Hero's weaker pair/inferior flush draw is the kiss of death. Betting big from the SB helps find the other big hands. If Hero bets $15 and gets raised then reraised, then the hand starts to look like trouble.

DrStrange

 

[Rhodeman77]

I always feel good when @DrStrange and I are thinking the same way on a hand! :

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Sounds like the consensus leans toward an over pot bet. Hero, however, chooses to bet $5. BB folds, CO raises to $20, BTN calls.

This IMO is the major decision point of the hand. What ranges are we looking at for CO and BTN, and what is Hero's action?

 

[DrStrange]

I fear for the three way situation I described in my first post. But perhaps not.

button's play looks dodgy. flatting a bet followed by a raise is risky. What if the small blind goes all in with his short stack? Could be a draw. Could be a sneaky tricky trappy play with a set. Could be one pair. Knowing nothing more than the button didn't raise preflop or on the flop, his range is quite wide.

CO woke up raising. Granted the original bet was $5, hardly more than a speed bump. Hard for this to be a bluff - it is possible to be a semi bluff, but not a stone cold air ball. The fact CO hasn't made an impression yet makes this raise alarming. Sets, two pair, big or nut flush draw for sure. Maybe an over-pair but it is hard to reconcile the passive preflop with the aggressive flop with a hand TT+

Point is both villain's hands have wide ranges. We know nothing more than they didn't make a spectacle over the last 30 minutes or so. Could be good or bad. Could be sleepy, drunk both or neither. Hero doesn't want to play both villains at once with his hand.

I wouldn't fault a fold here. On the other hand, Hero has just the right stack size for a jam all-in. Pot is $68 less rake. Hero has $108 left behind after catching up. Let's try and blow one villain off their hand - likely not the villain with the nut flush draw. It is hard to call an overbet here without a monster hand, but Hero should be OK if he gets called in one place. It will be close to a flip vs anything but a set.

I vote Jam > fold ~> raise >>>> call. And after this hand, Hero goes to bed if he thinks his judgement is questionable.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I would be jamming all-in as well. Absolute worst case CO has a set of 2’s, Button has a better flush draw and you are drawing practically dead. But that isn’t very likely since they both limped preflop. I would expect one of them to raise a PP or a suited Ace or 2 two broadway suited cards.

A raise here cleans up some of your equity if Button has a hand like for a gutter and an over card.

CO should be the only one of the two with a real hand in this spot. As mentione their hands can be just about any 2 cards here, they limped preflop. Against one Villian your hand is very strong and has plenty of equity vs everything but a set, and even that you can beat.

So what they hold doesn’t really matter, what matters is trying to get heads up. Raise all-in, maybe you take the pot down now, and if not, hopefully only one of them calls.

 

[detroitdad]

I agree with both @DrStrange and @Rhodeman77 All In Baby!!!

 

[Mr Tree]

 

[BGinGA]

Shove.... i feel it coming.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I wouldn't fault a fold here. On the other hand, Hero has just the right stack size for a jam all-in. Pot is $68 less rake. Hero has $108 left behind after catching up. Let's try and blow one villain off their hand - likely not the villain with the nut flush draw. It is hard to call an overbet here without a monster hand, but Hero should be OK if he gets called in one place. It will be close to a flip vs anything but a set.

I felt like it was almost a coin flip between folding and shoving, figuring exactly what you said above - if I shove I pick up the pot, I get one caller and I'm 50-50, or I get two and I'm in a very bad way. I felt pretty good about the way I played the hand but wanted some feedback from others to make sure I hadn't missed something.

And for those who care:

Spoiler: Results

I shove. CO tanks for about 30 seconds and reluctantly calls. BTN snap-reshoves for about $50 more, and CO calls. So I figured I was in trouble, and I was right (but not as bad as I thought). CO shows and BTN shows - I didn't do the math at the time, but I still had almost 15%. Turn and BTN takes it.

I felt good about the shove, especially after reviewing the hand in my head on the way home. I had a good feel for where I was at, and I acted based on that knowledge. Sucks the way it turned out, but that's poker.

 

[Mr Tree]

I felt like it was almost a coin flip between folding and shoving, figuring exactly what you said above - if I shove I pick up the pot, I get one caller and I'm 50-50, or I get two and I'm in a very bad way. I felt pretty good about the way I played the hand but wanted some feedback from others to make sure I hadn't missed something.

And for those who care:

Spoiler: Results

I shove. CO tanks for about 30 seconds and reluctantly calls. BTN snap-reshoves for about $50 more, and CO calls. So I figured I was in trouble, and I was right (but not as bad as I thought). CO shows and BTN shows - I didn't do the math at the time, but I still had almost 15%. Turn and BTN takes it.

I felt good about the shove, especially after reviewing the hand in my head on the way home. I had a good feel for where I was at, and I acted based on that knowledge. Sucks the way it turned out, but that's poker.

CO’s call here with Q9 is.....interesting. It almost felt like a given you were going to be facing the nut flush draw somewhere.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

CO’s call here with Q9 is.....interesting. It almost felt like a given you were going to be facing the nut flush draw somewhere.

Yeah, welcome to late night 1/2. It's a great game when you get cards - see the earlier hand I mentioned when a guy put his stack in with 62s.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

And after this hand, Hero goes to bed if he thinks his judgement is questionable.

I forgot to mention that while I felt my judgment was fine (and I still wasn't that tired), I'd already stayed 45 minutes later than I told Mrs. Schmendr1ck I was going to stay, so I left. Too bad, I had another buy-in in my pocket and the game was really really good.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I'd already stayed 45 minutes later than I told Mrs. Schmendr1ck I was going to stay, so I left.

Lol this is me EVERY SINGLE TIME I play poker. It has pretty much become understood that I will at least an hour later than when I said I would be home. It is just so hard to leave a table that is juicy with players that are stuck and chasing losses and or drinking.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Lol this is me EVERY SINGLE TIME I play poker. It has pretty much become understood that I will at least an hour later than when I said I would be home. It is just so hard to leave a table that is juicy with players that are stuck and chasing losses and or drinking.

Yeah, I used to do that too. But I've found that I also usually play worse myself as the night goes on, making it tougher to take advantage of tired players and more likely that I'm the one who will be taken advantage of. On top of that, Mrs. S strongly dislikes it when I come home after sunrise.

So most nights I'm racking up by 2am. This weekend was out of the ordinary because I've been on a long string of third-shift work, and my body still hasn't adjusted back to my regular schedule yet.