$1/2 NL: Flop 2 pair OOP on monotone board (1 Viewer)

[jbutler]

At Parx playing $1/2 NL. Just sat and in my first orbit tried to check raise bluff a woman with a flush draw. She called and I bricked and I rebought with the only chips in my pocket: $150. So as I'm waiting on the chip runner to complete my buyin this hand comes up.

I have 84dd in the SB and complete over three limpers. BB checks.

Flop ($10): K84hhh

I lead for $5, one caller, and button raises to $17. I call as does the previous caller. They both have me covered. I just sat and have no reads on either villain but both saw me shove and lose.

Turn ($61): 9c

My action?

 

[MegaTon44]

Fold. Order a Corona. Apply some Carmex. Wait for chip runner [emoji6]

 

[stocky]

Check jam all in. Get called by Kx9h and send chip runner on another run.

But really, save a $1 and fold pre

 

[jbutler]

Hearing via text that I'm apparently a giant donk. Berg says call flop check fold turn. Guinness says pot flop. Chippy says I should have folded to $17 on flop and should now check fold turn.

 

[bergs]

Fold. Order a Corona. Apply some Carmex. Wait for chip runner [emoji6]

Amateur play. Never apply lip balm and then drink. Drink first and apply when drinking session over. Megaton44 confirmed the worst of all Megaton versions and should be sent back to Megaton factory for dismantling so his parts can be used to construct much smarter and more effective Megaton1000

 

[Ben]

H

Hearing via text that I'm apparently a giant donk. Berg says call flop check fold turn. Guinness says pot flop. Chippy says I should have folded to $17 on flop and should now check fold turn.

Have to agree with SOHE-WC (half of SOHE is holdem, after all. )

What is your plan with the flop call, besides binking an 8 or 4? If you get further action here (which seems likely,) you're not winning very often.

 

[jbutler]

H


Have to agree with SOHE-WC (half of SOHE is holdem, after all. )

What is your plan with the flop call, besides binking an 8 or 4? If you get further action here (which seems likely,) you're not winning very often.

Post flop plan was to bet any nonheart other than a king. I see a lot of players playing a single heart aggressively here so didn't at all think I was likely to be behind. Certainly possible, but not likely and I definitely thought I could get action from a pair with a big heart.

So I led for $60 and got one caller.

River ($181): 3d

I think this one can go either way if I'm looking to get the rest of my stack in here (about $70). Either I put it in and try to get called by the single pair (which hasn't changed in rank since the turn at least) or check to let him try to bluff with a single heart.

 

[B.C.]

If you're calling raises pre with 84 and hit two pair on the flop, the only question should be is how do I get all my money in as early as possible no?

 

[stocky]

If you're calling raises pre with 84 and hit two pair on the flop, the only question should be is how do I get all my money in as early as possible no?

And how do we get a seat to Jacks left.

 

[jbutler]

If you're calling raises pre with 84 and hit two pair on the flop, the only question should be is how do I get all my money in as early as possible no?

So you're bet/3-betting the flop I guess?

 

[courage]

I'm a little confused, surprise. Is your effective stack $150, or more if waiting on "the rest of your buy-in"? Dealer should have said what you have behind.

Hearing via text that I'm apparently a giant donk. Berg says call flop check fold turn. Guinness says pot flop. Chippy says I should have folded to $17 on flop and should now check fold turn.

No wonder you're a mess if these are your poker coaches. I think at most 1/2 tables without reads you bet/fold the flop or check/call.

 

[jbutler]

I'm a little confused, surprise. Is your effective stack $150, or more if waiting on "the rest of your buy-in"? Dealer should have said what you have behind.

Not allowed to play behind at Parx. Chips must be at the table to be in play. I had 6 greens in my pocket so I plopped those in the table while I waited for the chip runner.

 

[courage]

Not allowed to play behind at Parx. Chips must be at the table to be in play. I had 6 greens in my pocket so I plopped those in the table while I waited for the chip runner.

Hmm, thanks, I've never played anywhere with that rule that I can recall.

 

[courage]

Post flop plan was to bet any nonheart other than a king. I see a lot of players playing a single heart aggressively here so didn't at all think I was likely to be behind. Certainly possible, but not likely and I definitely thought I could get action from a pair with a big heart.

So I led for $60 and got one caller.

River ($181): 3d

I think this one can go either way if I'm looking to get the rest of my stack in here (about $70). Either I put it in and try to get called by the single pair (which hasn't changed in rank since the turn at least) or check to let him try to bluff with a single heart.

Yours is also an aggressive line oop vs multiple players but looks promising. Hero didn't get raised on the turn so unless villain is tricky your read seems solid. As played, lead the river all-in, order a shot of bourbon, and save the Carmex to rub in villain's eye when they call with K9.

 

[bergs]

Yours is also an aggressive line oop vs multiple players but looks promising. Hero didn't get raised on the turn so unless villain is tricky your read seems solid. As played, lead the river all-in, order a shot of bourbon, and save the Carmex to rub in villain's eye when they call with K9.

Blinding villain with lip balm is fancy play syndrome. You're obviously sitting on a chair and you don't play at Parx much anymore. Plus it's Pennsylvania.....so I'd jam turn and if you lose, hit villain in head with chair, and then claim that you have frequent muscle spasms by way of apology.

Unless you're playing against Stephen Hawking who can't move well....in which case, blinding with lip balm standard play.

 

[Psypher1000]

Amateur play. Never apply lip balm and then drink. Drink first and apply when drinking session over. Megaton44 confirmed the worst of all Megaton versions and should be sent back to Megaton factory for dismantling so his parts can be used to construct much smarter and more effective Megaton1000

Did someone say 1000?

 

[Chicken Rob]

I'm with chippy. I don't know how you saw the flop.

 

[jbutler]

I'm with chippy. I don't know how you saw the flop.

You would fold for $1 in the SB?

 

[DrStrange]

Well I would fold 84s in the SB, but I am about the tightest player you can find.

 

[jbutler]

Well I would fold 84s in the SB, but I am about the tightest player you can find.

I fold a lot more than most in the SB but 84s is a call by my standard in that spot. At least assuming I can avoid spewing when I, say, flop bottom two on a monotone board...

 

[Ben]

If this were a raised pot things would be different, but in a 5-way limped pot, villains can have all kinds of random flushes and K8 is easily in play as well. I think the flop raiser is at least 50/50 to have us crushed, and the 50% we ARE ahead, often not by much (Kxh is a 51/49 favorite in fact.) I don't see a lot of villains raising 2 players here with Ahx, especially not so small.

As played, I think it's close between b/f $40 on turn or just c/f. Having bet $60 and getting called, I'm checking river and still might find a fold for the last $70 if he puts it in. It would take a pretty "special" villain to not check back at this point with anything worse than our hand (including missed draws.)

 

[Chicken Rob]

You would fold for $1 in the SB?

Yup.

I also fold the flop for $17

 

[MegaTon44]

I know the outcome of this hand, but I won't let it skew my assessment.

I feel like this should be a quick fold preflop, mainly because the odds on all winning hands are longshots. Let's consider the scenarios where you connect and the likely outcome.

Flop one pair - just fold
Flop 2 pair - 49:1 - could hold, but about equal likelihood of being cracked
Flop trips - 73:1 - with a crap kicker in a 5 way limped pot, could definitely be outkicked
Flop flush - 118:1 - even if it does, any A-K-x will chase
Flop Boat - 1088:1 - would be a monster, but rarely happens

As played

Flop - I'm with @guinness - I'd pot the flop. Based on the betting, you'd probably be up against a K and a draw. Make them pay to hit a better hand (and be content if you price them out)

Turn - I like the lead out bet of $60. I'd have my remaining chips in hand reading to jam unless a king or heart hits

River - Non king or heart, toss em in

 

[kirchhausen]

As played, it's close between between checking to induce a bluff attempt and leading out. You've already shown one bluff, so you are liekly to get called light witn only $70 remaining in that pot so I am leaning towards betting.

 

[jbutler]

Thanks for the responses, everybody. I was really mostly wondering about two decisions:

(1) Whether check-raise or lead the turn;
(2) Whether to shove the river.

Seems like there's little consensus beyond folding pre or releasing the hand at the earliest point otherwise. I understand the logic but I disagree that this is a fold on the flop.

Anyway, I put in my last $70, got called very quickly and I was good. Villain didn't show, but it seems almost certain he had KXhx.