Tourney Bounty chip, in play or not? (1 Viewer)

ThinkingFold

ThinkingFold

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Planning a bounty tournament and a debate came up as to what the actual bounty chip action was. Have only played bounty tournaments online and at home games so no casino experience to fall back on but always assumed a bounty chip was a playable chip and it signified an all-in.

Counter point was based around a bounty chip is not an "in play" chip but basically an accounting tool. Plus, them being on the table becomes messy and leads to losing track of who they belong to.

Anyone have any thoughts/experience on this? Is a bounty chip playable? Does it ever really lead to confusion on who did what?
 
^ This. And since they are worth cash money, I've never had any issues with people keeping track/ownership of the bounty chips they have won.
 
Max D said:
I bought a couple barrel of bounty chip from @ABC Gifts and Awards

http://abcgiftsandawards.com/poker-chips/bounty-chips/

Each player gets one with buy-in and rebuys. Then when someone gets knocked out you count how many they have (or not) and in our case it gives you points for the final championship.
Click to expand...

How are they used in game though? My understanding is as below but like I mentioned in OP, was getting a little kickback ( unwarranted imho ) on their use.

UTG is short stack with 10 bb and throws in their bounty chip. They are all-in. UTG + 1 is a mountain man sitting on 250 bb and also throws in their bounty chip. This is not a call but also an all-in so their entire 250 bb stack is now in the pot.
 
ThinkingFold said:
How are they used in game though? My understanding is as below but like I mentioned in OP, was getting a little kickback ( unwarranted imho ) on their use.

UTG is short stack with 10 bb and throws in their bounty chip. They are all-in. UTG + 1 is a mountain man sitting on 250 bb and also throws in their bounty chip. This is not a call but also an all-in so their entire 250 bb stack is now in the pot.
Click to expand...

Bounty chips really don't play, but are merely markers - each representing somebody's tournament life. Most places tossing one in the pot represents an all-in bet, but not everywhere.

Player A with 10K throws in his bounty chip; he's all-in for 10,000. Player B with 250K throws in his bounty chip; so he's all-in for 240,000 more. If nobody else calls or raises, his extra 240,000 and bounty chip are returned to him, and the pot contains 20,000 plus Player A's bounty chip. Only the bounty chip of the player at riisk of elimination is up for grabs and goes to the pot winner.
 
Throwing bounty chips into the pot when all-in is new to me. Based on my experience, a player simply hands over (forfeits) his or her bounty chip to the player who eliminated them. (When the hand is over.)
 
Pardon the ignorance on these questions.

Do players get to keep the bounty chip of a player they have previously knocked out when they themselves go all in a later hand and lose? I assume this to be the case otherwise what is the point, correct?

If a bounty chip is in a three way split pot where the all in player loses does the bounty chip go to the larger of the two winning pots or does it go to the highest hand?
 
No matter how many bounty chips you have accumulated, if you get knocked out you only lose one of them. You can cash the rest.

Interested in the casino way of doing things in a split pot situation as well.
 
pedrofisk said:
Do players get to keep the bounty chip of a player they have previously knocked out when they themselves go all in a later hand and lose?
Click to expand...
When you knock out a player, you collect their bounty chip. Some places will cash it out immediately; others cash them out either when you bust or collect your winnings at the end. A player can only lose his/her own bounty chip, not the bounty chips they have collected.


If a bounty chip is in a three way split pot where the all in player loses does the bounty chip go to the larger of the two winning pots or does it go to the highest hand?
Click to expand...
If multiple pots, the all-in player's bounty chip will only be in one of them -- whichever pot he is eligible to win, and the one which if he loses, would result in his elimination. (This is usually the main pot, but if more than one player is all-in, then a side pot may also contain a bounty chip.)

If he loses that pot, he is out, and whoever wins that pot is awarded both the chips and the bounty chip. If two players tie for high-hand and split that pot, then most places split the bounty between those two players.

For hi/lo game tournaments with split pots, the winner of the high side wins the bounty. Or in the case of mixed game split pots, the leading game in the name wins the bounty (Omaha hand for SOHE, Draw hand for Dramaha, Razz hand for Razzdugi, Hold'em for Shodugui, etc.).
 
BGinGA said:
If two players tie for high-hand and split that pot, then most places split the bounty between those two players.
Click to expand...

Bounties are never split. If two or more players who split the pot eliminate a bounty player, the bounty is awarded to the player with the largest stack. If the stacks are equal, the winning player is the player who is sitting closest to the button.

In my experience, this is the most common way of dealing with bounties in split-pot situations. This is also how we have handled it for over 10 years.
 
DoubleEagle said:
Bounties are never split. If two or more players who split the pot eliminate a bounty player, the bounty is awarded to the player with the largest stack. If the stacks are equal, the winning player is the player who is sitting closest to the button.

In my experience, this is the most common way of dealing with bounties in split-pot situations. This is also how we have handled it for over 10 years.
Click to expand...
In all my years of playing and running tournaments, I have never seen this done even once. Maybe a regional thing?

Makes no sense to award the bounty chip to the larger stack. Both players took him out equally, with the exact same winning hand (and wagered bet amounts).
 
BGinGA said:
In all my years of playing and running tournaments, I have never seen this done even once. Maybe a regional thing?

Makes no sense to award the bounty chip to the larger stack. Both players took him out equally, with the exact same winning hand (and wagered bet amounts).
Click to expand...

How else do you split the bounty though? It’s not crazy far fetched that the situation could come up (AK v AK v pocket pair, for example)
 
I've had a total of two split bounties in live hold'em dating back to 2006. One was a $20 bounty, and one guy paid the other $10 and kept the chip for redemption later. The other instance was a $5 bounty, and they just had the dealer turn up a card for each player from the washed muck pile prior to starting the next shuffle (high card kept the chip).

Even on PokerStars, it physically splits the bounty, in half (or thirds, if a 3-way tie knocking out a fourth player) when players tie winning a hand. The current PCF standings can be seen with some players having 18.3 bounties earned, others with 6.5 bounties won, etc.
 
If you google split pot bounties you will find lots of info where bounties are never split per my post. Whatever works for you and your group.
 
I’ve encountered this split bounty several times in casinos. In every one they simply cashed the bounty on the spot and split it, using change if need be. they didn’t cash whole bounty’s immediately, you just accumulated them and cashed them when you left the table.
It’s also not bad form to pocket your won bounty’s. Just don’t pocket your live one.

Just go play a bounty tournament at a casino and you’ll get the drift.
 
I can only speak for games/casinos I've played, but I've never seen a bounty that wasn't split, when appropriate.

From a logical standpoint, it makes a lot more sense to split it. If two players bet the same amount, have the same hand, and take out a third player, they have both equally earned the bounty and should collect their portion. No player has earned it more than the other and arbitrarily giving it to one and not the other based on stack size is unfair. In fact, if this is the only criteria and you can't split it, I would argue you should award it to the smaller chip stack - they risked a higher percentage of their stack to earn it. Taking the bigger risk should be awarded, not penalized.

The only comparable I can think of is when there is an odd chip in the pot:

1) Giving it to the person with the larger chip stack is ridiculous in that scenario.

2) From a tie-breaker standpoint, it is given to the player closest left of the dealer button but only to the point that it is impossible to split it. If there is an odd T500 chip, it is broken down until it physically can't be split anymore. For example, if T25s are still in play, the odd chip issue is eliminated all together. If T100s are the lowest denomination, it is broken down and an odd T100 is awarded (usually to the person left of the dealer). To award the T500 chip as an odd chip would be ludicrous. So, similarly, break down the bounty until it can't be broken down anymore. Unless your bounty is $9.99 or something odd, it can always be broken down evenly. If it can't, award the extra penny to the person left of the dealer.
 
DoubleEagle said:
Bounties are never split. If two or more players who split the pot eliminate a bounty player, the bounty is awarded to the player with the largest stack. If the stacks are equal, the winning player is the player who is sitting closest to the button.

In my experience, this is the most common way of dealing with bounties in split-pot situations. This is also how we have handled it for over 10 years.
Click to expand...

In our private game, the largest stack takes it.
 
Kid_Eastwood said:
In our private game, the largest stack takes it.
Click to expand...

While I still like splitting the bounty a lot more than not splitting it, what is the logic in giving it to the largest stack? I think there are more logical ways to decide who would get a bounty. How about:

1) Give it to the shorter stack - they risked a higher percentage of their stack to knock out the player and would be more worthy than the larger stack.
2) If the all-in person initiated action, give it to the first person to call (or raise).
3) If the all-in person was calling an action, give it to the first person who initiated enough action to put the person all-in.
4) Give it to the winner of a coin toss or draw for high card (which would allow the participants to negotiate a deal before tossing the coin/drawing cards).
5) Quarantine the bounty and give it to the person who lasts longer. (Granted, this would not be entirely different than giving it to the biggest chip stack at the time, but in instances in which both players have similar chip stacks, it could make a difference.)
6) Give it back to the player who was eliminated as a consolation prize for getting their money in so badly that they got beat by multiple players. (OK, this one is a joke.)
 
It’s the same logic as in the following scenario:
- 3 places paid
- 4 players left
- Chip leader eliminates 2 players in one shot
- 3rd Place will not split but go to the largest stack amongst the 2 eliminated players at the beginning of the last hand
 
Well the logic « the big stack has priority over the smaller one » is same in both cases. That’s what I wanted to highlight.
 
Kid_Eastwood said:
It’s the same logic as in the following scenario:
- 3 places paid
- 4 players left
- Chip leader eliminates 2 players in one shot
- 3rd Place will not split but go to the largest stack amongst the 2 eliminated players at the beginning of the last hand
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I can't agree with that. It's all about risk and who gets rewarded for taking bigger risks.

In the example above, two players are risking their own tournament life. The person who is all-in for the most chips is taking a bigger risk and is rewarded by getting third place over the person who risked fewer chips. In other words, the person who had the most to lose by being all-in is awarded third place.

In a bounty situation (if awarding to the bigger stack), two players are not risking their own tournament life but causing another player to risk theirs. The person who causes a player to be all-in with more chips in their stack is taking a smaller risk but is rewarded with the bounty over the person who took the bigger risk. In other words, the person who had the least to lose is awarded the bounty.

To apply the same logic for awarding bounties as is used for awarding payouts, you'd have to award the bounty to the person with the fewest chips going into the hand (as I suggest above). That would be the same logic...reward the person who took the biggest risk.
 
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