The uncertainty about lead in chips... (1 Viewer)

All,

I have to admit, with two young children, the uncertainty about whether or not the chips contain lead is unsettling. I'm having trouble finding much of any information. Even on PCF, there seems to be only one old thread where this was discussed and that was inconclusive.

Before I start getting into the building of mixed sets and purchasing real clays, vintage casino, etc..., my plan is to start off with an interim tourney set and an interim cash set. I have 15-17 sample sets of stock china clays and ceramics. Although I may like the china clays better and they're at a slightly better price point, I'm having trouble pulling the trigger because of the concern with lead. Whereas I have less concern regarding this with the ceramics because PGI (Tiki Kings), ABC, and others have come forth saying there is no lead in their ceramic chips.

What is the current consensus out there among the PCF members on this topic? Does anyone else share this concern about the possibility of lead in chips? Does anyone know whether the china clays in particular contain lead or not (i.e. Majestics, Milanos, Pharaohs, CPS, etc...)?

I had a chip content analysis done a few years back on various chips; including many china clays and American clay chips and NONE contained lead.
The older paulsons chips and probably other old chips did contain lead but not in significant quantities and to my knowledge there has never been a single documented instance of lead from poker chips causing illness, injury, or death. That being said, you wouldn't let your kids eat them and I'd recommend washing hands after handling them.

From a 2008 article:
http://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/01/gamblers-be-warned-lead-vegas-companys-poker-chips/

the Arizona Department of Health Services, whose own tests of Paulson chips showed concentrations of lead significantly lower than those reported by the television station, withdrew the public health alert and declared that the chips posed no health risk. The television station pulled the original story from its Web site.

Independent tests showed it was physically impossible for either dealers or players to receive a harmful dose of lead by coming in contact with the chips

Meddler2 said:

I had a chip content analysis done a few years back on various chips; including many china clays and American clay chips and NONE contained lead.
The older paulsons chips and probably other old chips did contain lead but not in significant quantities and to my knowledge there has never been a single documented instance of lead from poker chips causing illness, injury, or death. That being said, you wouldn't let your kids eat them and I'd recommend washing hands after handling them.

From a 2008 article:
http://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/01/gamblers-be-warned-lead-vegas-companys-poker-chips/

the Arizona Department of Health Services, whose own tests of Paulson chips showed concentrations of lead significantly lower than those reported by the television station, withdrew the public health alert and declared that the chips posed no health risk. The television station pulled the original story from its Web site.

Independent tests showed it was physically impossible for either dealers or players to receive a harmful dose of lead by coming in contact with the chips

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In all likelihood, you consume far more lead if you drink tap water than is likely to get into your blood by being around poker chips.

My personal rule of thumb is to never put anything from China in my mouth. I'd also recommend that you not allow your kids to chew on your poker chips.

The chips from China are probably 10X more dangerous than any Paulson or CPC/ASM chip ever made. I heard they grind up little babies to give the chip materials cohesiveness. May not be true, nothing on snopes.com so do your own research.

I agree, with the problems with the sheetrock and flooring from China, why take the chance they did not use Chernobyl Chemical's Plastics when making the chips?

Just get some Chipcos, you will be fine.

Some thoughts –

- Lead is typically used in a small percentage usually to help color the part. I would think more than 1% of weight would be extreme.

- How much lead could effectively “leach” to the surface of a poker chip? It is a solid clay / plastic / ceramic part.

- Lead doesn’t absorb through you skin

- Unless you are in the habit of burning poker chips, eating poker chips, soaking them in your drink, or licking your hands while you play, I think there is very little chance of you ingesting any lead at all


I think you assume a much greater risk every time you start your car, than you will in your lifetime of handling poker chips.

Unless you're eating them, i wouldnt be too concerned.

Even the TR Kings, and their relatively higher levels of lead have shown no ill effects on collectors who've been handling them for 50 years. You would be wise to wear a mask if milling the chips thus creating a bunch of dust, but the lead isn't the primary concern.

Somehow, people think "lead" and immediately think it's worse than plutonium and develop an unnatural fear of the substance. The EPA sets the acceptable amount of lead in soil ON PLAYGROUNDS at 400 ppm, but about once per year we get another panic stricken parent concerned about 1 ppm lead in their chips.

Relax. Your kids are at greater risk in the bathtub than in your chip collection.

Unless your collection has TR Kings - then the danger is less from the lead and greater from the whooping they would get for losing/breaking an irreplaceable Mapes.

Churlbut18:

I think I can add something to this topic. The "news" that some Paulson chips contained lead came out when I first started collecting. I wanted to take a serious look at it. What I found led me to call the entire thing, "The great lead scare of 2007."

For the record, Classic Poker Chips uses brass for weight, not lead. So your Classic customs (or Key Wests) don't contain lead.

History:
In early November, 2007, the local ABC television station KNXV in Phoenix ran a news story in which they tested the lead content of some old Paulson real casino table chips. All the chips they tested were issued prior to 1998. An independent lab hired by the TV station found that the old chips contained 470,000 ppm of lead -- a lead content of 47 percent. The report was impressive and alarming. It was also a bit contrived, considering they used some very old chips to do the tests.

This story prompted the Arizona Department of Health to issue a warning to casino dealers about routine handling of the chips by casino dealers, and the possible exposure risk to the children and families of dealers (and presumably, collectors) who would handle the chips.

In response to the news story and the Department of Health warning, the head of GPI's American operations wrote a letter to the company's customers. In it, he detailed the company's efforts to reduce the amount of lead in casino chips over the years.

Essentially, he said:

• From 1968 to 1998, the company's chips contained up to 47 percent lead.
• Between 1998 and 2006, the company reformulated their chips, reducing the amount of lead to 3,000 ppm (three tenths on one percent). That's 1/90th of pre-1998 levels.
  
• After 2006, the company's chips contained 50 ppm lead, or 5/1000 of 1 percent. This is about four times the amount of lead currently allowed in drinking water by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Here's a link to a page on the Key West site which shows the press release from the Arizona Department of Health, and GPI's undated response letter:

http://www.keywestresortcasino.com/the-great-casino-chip-lead-scare.html

So, in the end, an ambitious TV reporter trying to uncover a big story dug up some old chips, tested them and sounded the alarm that all casino chips contain 47 percent lead. In reality, the chips being made by the company at the time the story aired actually contained only a small fraction (5/1000) of one percent.

So the truth in her story is that old chips contained a lot of lead -- something we all knew here. Even those were likely very safe to handle, both when they were new and after many years.

Safe handling of casino chips:

One could argue that handling chips in a casino poses a greater risk of catching a cold or the flu. Any risk caused by handling your own chips at home -- assuming they're old enough and actually contain any lead -- could be eliminated by simply washing your hands after the game.

(Apologies if I repeated information posted above. It took awhile to get it together, and other posts were made while I was writing.)

I just read an article saying that a vast majority of burgers contain traces of beef crap.
Now I'm considering eating chips.

bergs said:

The chips from China are probably 10X more dangerous than any Paulson or CPC/ASM chip ever made.

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Not so. CC, BCC, ASM, and Paulson all contained pretty much the same materials, except CC contained higher amount of calcium carbonate....chalk

Now, if I was eating poker chips that were manufacturered in Flint Michigan, I'd be a little more worried.

<°)))><) said:

I just read an article saying that a vast majority of burgers contain traces of beef crap.
Now I'm considering eating chips.

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That is what makes them so tasty.

An old Paulson chip is 47% lead? Really???? I found that so hard to believe I did some work.

A single chip is 1.5 inches in diameter, 0.125 inches thick or .22 cubic inches in volume. A cubic inch of lead weighs 6.55 ounces. A cubic inch of clay weighs something close to an ounce. So a 47% lead chips weighs 3.6 ounces. 22.5 pounds per rack.

We know chips are heavy but nothing close to 22.5 pounds per rack. QED - - old Paulson chips are not 47% lead.

Perhaps they meant there was 47% lead in the coloring agent? That would not make too much difference in the to total weight.

DrStrange

All good except a chip is .22 cubic in not 1 cubic in. You multiplied the weight of 1 cubic in x 100 not .22 x 100

22.5 x .22 = 4.95 lb per rack. TLAR.

DrStrange said:

An old Paulson chip is 47% lead? Really???? I found that so hard to believe I did some work.

A single chip is 1.5 inches in diameter, 0.125 inches thick or .22 cubic inches in volume. A cubic inch of lead weighs 6.55 ounces. A cubic inch of clay weighs something close to an ounce. So a 47% lead chips weighs 3.6 ounces. 22.5 pounds per rack.

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I believe this has come up before and the "up to 47%" is up to 47% by weight, not volume.

So take an 11g (0.387 oz) leaded chip. If you take the 47% as 47% by weight, that would suggest 0.182 oz of lead/chip. In terms of volume, that would be about 0.028 in^3. If the remaining 53% of the weight is "clay", then that leaves 0.205 oz of clay/chip. In terms of volume that would be about 0.205 in^3, assuming a clay density of about 1 ounce per cubic inch. So using these number, the 47% by weight would equate to about 12% by volume 0.028/(0.028+0.205). This also seems reasonable as the total volume using these rough density estimates is about 0.23 in^3, which is very close to the estimate of 0.22 in^3 made using the dimensions of the chip.

Meddler2 said:

Not so. CC, BCC, ASM, and Paulson all contained pretty much the same materials, except CC contained higher amount of calcium carbonate....chalk

Now, if I was eating poker chips that were manufacturered in Flint Michigan, I'd be a little more worried.

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In your response, CC doesn't stand for China Clay right, so what does it stand for? I'm not fully up to speed yet on all of my acronyms.

churlbut18 said:

In your response, CC doesn't stand for China Clay right, so what does it stand for? I'm not fully up to speed yet on all of my acronyms.

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China Clay.

bentax1978 said:

So take an 11g (0.387 oz) leaded chip.

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Those hot stamp LCV Poker Palace chips I have were showing 12g on my scale. The do feel noticeably heavier than any other Paulson chip I've held.

Tommy said:

Those hot stamp LCV Poker Palace chips I have were showing 12g on my scale. The do feel noticeably heavier than any other Paulson chip I've held.

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Yeah, I was just picking a nominal weight, the equations would still balance out similarly for a 12g chip.

My heaviest Paulson chips are around 11.5g - official casino weight

bentax1978 said:

Yeah, I was just picking a nominal weight, the equations would still balance out similarly for a 12g chip.

My heaviest Paulson chips are around 11.5g - official casino weight

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I wasn't objecting to your calculations. I just wanted to say 12g Paulsons are awesome.

Tommy said:

I wasn't objecting to your calculations. I just wanted to say 12g Paulsons are awesome.

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It's not the size of your Paulson, it's how you use them.

Regardless, I think it's fair to say most people would be happy with either an 11.5 or a 12

DrStrange said:

An old Paulson chip is 47% lead? Really???? I found that so hard to believe I did some work.

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Paulson's CEO wrote a letter saying the lead content in the old chips was 470,000 ppm (parts per million). The link shows the text of the letter.

trever said:

My personal rule of thumb is to never put anything from China in my mouth.

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I must admit, I have wavered from this restriction on more than one occasion. Not since I've been married, though......

churl...what year was your house built, 1978 or earlier ? there are Fed laws and warnings regarding any housing built prior to 1978..may contain lead paint, ...dont let your kids chew on the window sills....chances are if there was LBP used on the house the lead based paint has be repainted and covered a few times over the past 38 years....if you wanted to be concerned but dont over think that either

How would I go about finding out of the Milanos contain lead?

mummel said:

How would I go about finding out of the Milanos contain lead?

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Answer: they don't.

I think the problem is more in the lead used during the manufacturing of the chips. Protect the worker type of thing.

trever said:

My personal rule of thumb is to never put anything from China in my mouth. I'd also recommend that you not allow your kids to chew on your poker chips.

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How bout a Chinese nipple

^ Pay no attention to this guy. Toxic volcanic gases are starting to get to him.