$1/1 Big O river decision (1 Viewer)

courage · Feb 23, 2017

My weekly mixed game, this was a Big O hand I thought was interesting. It's late in the session and my stack has been up and down all night, currently at $271 on $300 buy-in. Relevant villain has arrived late, run hot, and has a stack of about $600. He and I haven't played together yet this year. He mixes up his play pretty well in all games and can change styles effectively. My image is TAG in the Omaha variants but also tarnished since all players know I've run badly so far in 2017. I'm not sure I have every detail correct, but close enough:

$1/1, Hero in SB calls a raise to $3 with :8c:

, 4 players to the flop.

$12, flop :7c:

Flop the nut high, I lead for $10, one fold, v1 calls, v2 calls on the button.

$42, turn :ks:

Hero still with nut high and blockers also picks up a gutshot straight flush draw and checks. v1 bets $25, v2 calls. Hero check-raises to $142. v1 folds.

v2 tanks and seems uncomfortable for nearly a full minute then says he can't see folding this hand. He asks the dealer how much it is and how much I have left and says, "ok Chris, I call." A bit unexpected. On to the river.

$351, river :2s:

Hero has 3rd nut high and about $115 remaining. Action?

Ben · Feb 23, 2017

courage said:
My weekly mixed game, this was a Big O hand I thought was interesting. It's late in the session and my stack has been up and down all night, currently at $181 on $300 buy-in. Relevant villain has arrived late, run hot, and has stack of about $400. He and I haven't played together yet this year. He mixes up his play pretty well in all games and can change styles effectively. My image is TAG in the Omaha variants but also tarnished since all players know I've run badly so far in 2017.

$1/1, Hero in SB calls raise to $3 with

... saved to be edited...

Fold pre.

Ben · Feb 23, 2017

Jam?

No other option really - the only way it doesn't go in anyway if you check is if he has something like a worse flush and no low, in which case you're missing value. There is no folding for $115.

JoseRijo · Feb 23, 2017

Yeah, you're kind of stuck.

upNdown · Feb 23, 2017

Explain to me why you don't check here?
I'm not sure what this guy was drawing to, if not the flush.
I suppose it's possible he had the same straight. But if it's anything else, isn't he either folding to your bet, or beating you with a better flush?
Obviously you're calling if you have to.

trever · Feb 23, 2017

Jam, rebuy

trever · Feb 23, 2017

upNdown said:
Explain to me why you don't check here?
I'm not sure what this guy was drawing to, if not the flush.
I suppose it's possible he had the same straight. But if it's anything else, isn't he either folding to your bet, or beating you with a better flush?
Obviously you're calling if you have to.

Don't let villain get half the pot with a crappy low hand for free.

upNdown · Feb 23, 2017

Oh! I forgot it was hi/lo

courage · Feb 23, 2017

Ben said:
Jam?

No other option really - the only way it doesn't go in anyway if you check is if he has something like a worse flush and no low, in which case you're missing value. There is no folding for $115.

My thinking at the time was to shove any river, but the :2s:

made me pause. Villain is not bad enough imo to call with a single draw on the turn so some sort of combo draw? The deuce is probably not a great card for him, if on a low draw very possibly was nut low draw.

$351 river, board :7c:

Hero checks, villain shoves, effectively putting hero all-in. Hero's turn to tank. I say, "you probably have the :qs:

I need." Villain shows :qs:

.

Action?

bergs · Feb 23, 2017

I'd show the Qs if I had a lock low or a J9Qxx type hand. I'm only calling here because a) it's hi/lo and he could easily be trying to steal half with the lock low, and b) you have exactly the blockers he's potentially repping with Js and 9s. If he hadn't showed the Qs I'm actually folding so if he has AsQs3xXxXx then nh, nh.

H|Q · Feb 23, 2017

I've heard the story so I know how it ends, but this is the line i'd take if I were playing "right"

Puke Fold. At best I'm playing for half. If a no-low spade falls on the river I ship. Feels like I'm playing for half the pot, and I'm not even sure i'd get that.

Chippy McChiperson · Feb 23, 2017

This is the type of hand that plays great in 5 card PLO but horrible in BigO8. There are so few boards that give you the nut high that don't also put out a low. AKQJ is way way better if you want to play a hand that would give you the nuts on high only hands. Fold this all day pre. As played, hit the fuse box and say "Crap, electricity's out. Sorry guys, game over. I guess we'll have to chop the pot!"

Rhodeman77 · Feb 23, 2017

So he has to have the :as:

as well to get the high half of the pot, which if he has means he has a low most likely too. Such a horrible spot, but I think it is a call to chop.

Most of the time when he shows you that card after you say that he is wanting you to fold. He probably has the Q high flush and a low and is trying to scare you out of the high half of the pot.

If you are deeper though it is a fold, I only say call because of the $115 left. If you have a pot sized bet and he shoves I fold.

Chippy McChiperson · Feb 23, 2017

Rhodeman77 said:
So he has to have the as well to get the high half of the pot, which if he has means he has a low most likely too. Such a horrible spot, but I think it is a call to chop.

Most of the time when he shows you that card after you say that he is wanting you to fold. He probably has the Q high flush and a low and is trying to scare you out of the high half of the pot.

Any other spade would give him a higher flush, which would scoop the pot since Courage has no low.

GrumpyCatMalaka · Feb 23, 2017

JoseRijo said:
Yeah, you kind of suck.

FYP...
jk Courage

Rhodeman77 · Feb 23, 2017

Chippy McChiperson said:
Any other spade would give him a higher flush, which would scoop the pot since Courage has no low.

You are right. I thought he had the :ks:

but that is in the board! Lack of sleep is catching up to me!

Even worse! I guess save the $115 and fold.

courage · Feb 23, 2017

Chippy McChiperson said:
Fold this all day pre.

I agree with your points, being a one-way hand, but for $2 more in the small blind I had the opportunity to floppa da nuts, turn a redraw with still no low out and put myself to a tough decision lol.

Chippy McChiperson · Feb 23, 2017

courage said:
I agree with your points, being a one-way hand, but for $2 more in the small blind I had the opportunity to floppa da nuts, turn a redraw with still no low out and put myself to a tough decision lol.

And that's the problem with this hand. Despite you having a seemingly great hand on the turn, there aren't many river cards out there that brick out completely. Maybe just a non spade ace.

courage · Feb 23, 2017

Chippy McChiperson said:
And that's the problem with this hand. Despite you having a seemingly great hand on the turn, there aren't many river cards out there that brick out completely. Maybe just a non spade ace.

Which made me wonder if the turn monster check-raise was a mistake with half a hand. I don't think so as most hands must fold and this ends on the turn.

Ben · Feb 23, 2017

Turn C/R is definitely best - pile it in while ahead, and you are most definitely ahead on the turn. Don't let anybody see a river with 5 cards without paying the max. One villain can have a lot of outs, but he can't have all of them. Two villains COULD have all of them.

That said, having checked and been shown the Qs in response to your specific statement, I'm folding. Puke.

JoseRijo · Feb 23, 2017

Yeah. Shoving might not be best if they will show you a card before you call. Yeesh.

courage · Feb 23, 2017

I thought there would be more interest in this hand but maybe it's not so interesting lol.

**RESULTS**

Having no low, seeing the :qs:

for potential better flush in villain's hand, and chance to win half the pot, hero folds.

Villain shows :kc:

for turned set and no low draw.

lol reads.

links_slayer · Feb 23, 2017

I thought it was interesting. I'm just terrible at poker.

JoseRijo · Feb 23, 2017

That's really the problem with that game. It's hard to know just how awful your opponent is.

Rhodeman77 · Feb 23, 2017

I think the fold was right, but when you make that statement and (sounds like you are folding) to have him show the card to reinforce that idea, makes me think he wants a fold.

Chippy McChiperson · Feb 23, 2017

Yeah but he could know he has half and want to fold out Chris' equity

onerand · Feb 23, 2017

So I saw the results, but fold [pre] flop jam river. You hit a backdoor flush that's pretty high and may get a mediocre low to fold. Must call river as played.

That being said, I second Chippy that this hand is trash pre flop in this game. A lot of your big hands and draws also make a low possible. Playing for half is not as fun.

bergs · Feb 24, 2017

If he doesn't show the Qs, easy fold, but when he shows the Qs there he almost never has a flush because if you have As then he's dead for half on an unpaired board, and if he has As he's never showing because he wants max value.

He'd have to be trying to outlevel you to show Qs when he also has As. He didn't strike me as the leveling type and Qs isn't the nuts here so he basically trapped himself. Dumb move.

$1/1 Big O river decision (1 Viewer)

Full House

Full House

Full House

Pair

Royal Flush

Flush

Flush

Royal Flush

Full House

Royal Flush

Flush

4 of a Kind

Straight Flush

4 of a Kind

Two Pair

Straight Flush

Full House

4 of a Kind

Full House

Full House

Pair

Full House

4 of a Kind

Pair

Straight Flush

4 of a Kind

3 of a Kind

Royal Flush

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