I get the slickness of the Copags, so I've relegated them to the dealer shoe for blackjack (poker size). I'm using the bridge size Fournier or promoting the Desjgn 4 colour decks for poker.
Copag, KEM, and Desjgn, Pros Cons? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter nomadland
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TikiKingKing
High Hand
My crew all agreed they liked my bridge size Copags last game. Have yet to own a KEM deck though but I find the prices ridiculous on those.
Before signing up here, I thought KEM's were the absolute grail in terms of cards. After handling and shuffling the new desjgn cards, and after getting my hands on some Dal Negro and Fournier cards after a bit of effort, there's no going back to KEM's for me.
Shuffling the desjgn cards with the rougher textured card stock is so easy and return to shape so nicely. I haven't noted any fading issues with the ink yet after two four hour sessions, so that's TBD. Dal Negro made the card stock for desjgn's most recent cards. They have the textured linen stock of the desjgn's, but also smoother stock if that's not your thing. The one thing that you feel right away is that the cards are quite a bit heavier and substantial feeling than KEM's and Copag cards that have thinner stock. The cards snap back to normal just as well. The Dal Negro's make the other cards feel cheap in comparison.
Shuffling the desjgn cards with the rougher textured card stock is so easy and return to shape so nicely. I haven't noted any fading issues with the ink yet after two four hour sessions, so that's TBD. Dal Negro made the card stock for desjgn's most recent cards. They have the textured linen stock of the desjgn's, but also smoother stock if that's not your thing. The one thing that you feel right away is that the cards are quite a bit heavier and substantial feeling than KEM's and Copag cards that have thinner stock. The cards snap back to normal just as well. The Dal Negro's make the other cards feel cheap in comparison.
No, go to www.kem.com
Uhhhhh....that didn’t explain anything?
They different cards both made for casinos.... Go to web page and look for yourself... That's not a big effort
Casino back
Circle back
Alpha back
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I like to fancy myself as a card junkie. I’ve blown almost as much money on cards the past couple decades as what I have on chips. Having said that, I think KEMs and Desjgns are at least a step above everything else. KEM is pure classic to me. Kind of the cards that got it all started. Their feel, flexibility and classic look are awesome. I have had some warp, but I guess I have been lucky because it’s nothing like what a lot of people say about them.
As for Desjgns, I have been using them almost exclusively of late. Classic Culture are BY FAR my favorite. I love the feel (feel a lot like KEMs to me) and look, and I like supporting the vendor. I also think the Victorians have held up better than the others.
An excellent card opinion on here is @Old State. He’s a guru and has great advice.
As for Desjgns, I have been using them almost exclusively of late. Classic Culture are BY FAR my favorite. I love the feel (feel a lot like KEMs to me) and look, and I like supporting the vendor. I also think the Victorians have held up better than the others.
An excellent card opinion on here is @Old State. He’s a guru and has great advice.
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I did look, there’s no mention of casino only circle backs. There’s also no info on the Club Casino other than the link...no pictures of the pips. So yeah...it didn’t explain a damn thing. Thanks anyways.
Dix
3 of a Kind
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Problem I've had in being able to try a deck of Dal Negro's is finding some. Well, the acetate ones anyway. Tried some of their cheaper PVC & they feel... well... like any other PVC card (Copag, Gemaco when you could get them, etc.).
Also, not a huge fan of the "round-top spades" (similar to Modiano). That must be an Italian thing.
JScott
Flush
I only have experience with Copags and Desjgn cards but the Desjgn I find are better all around. The Copags are terribly slippery and that damn top card ends up sliding halfway off the deck no matter what I do.
AnteAndy
3 of a Kind
Tapping the top of the deck doesn't work? Always works for me and others I know.
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You are right ...sorry ..no pics of Circle ...propobly because they not printing them at the moment.
Any way its good to chack from time to time websites like https://www.kem.com/ or https://www.kardwell.com/ for new models. I just find out new Dal Nego designs.
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Old State
Full House
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Haha..don’t know about that but I have also spent a ton of cash on cards.
These are my two favorite cards as well. I’m a card junkie too but by accident. Started buying all types of cards in a quest to find something that feels as nice as Kems but without the bowing issue. After trying almost every card made I’ve come to conclusion that nothing made feels as nice as Kems.....But some are pretty darn good. Desjgn has had some very nice feeling cards and they are by far the best looking by a very large margin IMO. That said his card stock has changed over time. I only own his bridge sized designs and like the Classic Culture the best. I don't have his new 4 color set and can’t comment on the card stock. Probably will skip these as Im not really interested in 4 color decks.
There are several threads the OP should search on cards here...some pretty recent. In the past few years I’ve gone back to buying a lot of Kems but only when they are on sale on Amazon. If found them as low as $13 and never paid more than $21.
I’ve said this many times but the key to keeping them from bowing is to store them upside down with a cut card and dealer button on top in their case. Kems stay perfectly flat like this.
If/when Desjgn decides to make standard or blackjack index bridge sized decks again I’ll probably buy a setup in every color and use them heavily. I would love if he could find some card stock like Modiano was supplying for him before they screwed him over.
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The Dal Negro stock used with this year's iteration is really nice, IMO.
This is for a correction in reference to my above post. The Classic Culture are by far my favorite of the Desjgns. I accidentally put Victorian in my original post. I have Victorians, and I like them, but my opinion is that the Cultures are a step above. Sorry for my mixup!
Second this...Classic Cultures are the bomb. I hope we can get some circle backs in new colors. I’d never buy anything else!
Dix
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I'll second both of these statements...
I don't keep my Kems upside-down, but I do keep them semi-tightly packed in their cases. The jokers & the pair of promo cards live in the bottom of the cases. Add in 2 or 3 throwaways from old decks & you've taken up just enough space so the case cover is lightly touching the tops of the decks. I do that with all my cards, not just the Kems, but I guess that may be why I've never had a bowing issue with them. Mystery solved I guess.
I too thought J Designs we just a tick better with the older card stock (I still have a couple lightly used decks of those around here somewhere). But the new stock is d*mn close IMO. I've never been able to trip over a Dal Negro acetate deck so I can only surmise that they are likely close enough to the new J Designs to be a tossup. Which is really close to the Kems in feel, IMO. I prefer the Victorians.
OP didn't ask about Modiano, but they are right up there with the Kems & J Designs feel-wise IMO. I just don't care for the blunt spades look. Neither it seems were some at the WSOP. Not that I ever mistook one for a club, but they're just not for me.
gadgetmcnasty
High Hand
I got lucky and scored a set of Kem alphas. Trust me, no cards come close. Excellent feel, beautiful Kem pips. The ones marketed as Kem Casino with the large circle in the back are nice as well.
Where did you get them.
J Design is easily my favorite of the bunch. The card feel plus the pip size and font combine to make my favorite deck. KEM is a pretty close second. I used to adore copag cards before I knew there was anything else out there, they are too slippery and wear down too quickly for my preference.
Edit: I should clarify that my preference is towards the JDesign Classic Culture card stock specifically. The Casino stock (I think that's what it's called) is nice too, but it falls somewhere between KEM and copag and a bunch of other stuff that's in between there.
Edit: I should clarify that my preference is towards the JDesign Classic Culture card stock specifically. The Casino stock (I think that's what it's called) is nice too, but it falls somewhere between KEM and copag and a bunch of other stuff that's in between there.
I have to say that. I really like Desjgn by sheer look of the cards. I am also very fond of customer service. But the cards will be as good as the stock they have been printed on.
Previously Desjgn were printed by Modiano, and I belive they used regular stock, not the one used for Platinium line. Right now they are printed by DalNegro. So apart from look of cards it proofs only who's cards are better. I wonder what opinions would have been if Desjgn were printed by KEMs or Copag.
gadgetmcnasty
High Hand
By chance guy was selling a new set up of red/blue (my favorite color set up) on eBay. I also scored two brand new set ups of red/blue circle backs as well as brand new set up of kem casinos. Just got lucky, to be honest.
What the casino KEMs look like?
Old State
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Kardwell has some unique Kem designs but they are selling at MSRP and the shipping has been absurdly expensive in the past. I have been tempted to buy these casino designs many times but this has been a deterrent.
If you want to try Kems I would recommend checking Amazon for a deal.
Side note for those that play in casinos that use Kems (which is most of them)....I always thought that the Kems at the casino were thicker than what I had at home as did several of my friends. So I called Kem CS (probably in the mid 2000s) to ask and they emphatically said no. Then these “casino“ and “consumer” cards show up at Kardwell a few years ago and I was like “aha! They were lying to me”....and I called again. Same answer....they claim they are all the same and the same stock the casinos get. Could be just a mental thing.
Oh, and one last thing for anyone new to Kems and doing research; the whole pre and post USPC quality thing is total BS. I have a few sample of both and the the card stock was the same until around 2011 when it got a tad bit rougher. Both pre and post USPC (2006) cards have the exact same tendency to bow or not bow. I have posted pictures here to prove it. Moral is there is no need to seek them out for a premium.
If you want to try Kems I would recommend checking Amazon for a deal.
Side note for those that play in casinos that use Kems (which is most of them)....I always thought that the Kems at the casino were thicker than what I had at home as did several of my friends. So I called Kem CS (probably in the mid 2000s) to ask and they emphatically said no. Then these “casino“ and “consumer” cards show up at Kardwell a few years ago and I was like “aha! They were lying to me”....and I called again. Same answer....they claim they are all the same and the same stock the casinos get. Could be just a mental thing.
Oh, and one last thing for anyone new to Kems and doing research; the whole pre and post USPC quality thing is total BS. I have a few sample of both and the the card stock was the same until around 2011 when it got a tad bit rougher. Both pre and post USPC (2006) cards have the exact same tendency to bow or not bow. I have posted pictures here to prove it. Moral is there is no need to seek them out for a premium.
I have compared pre and post KEMs and see 2 differences.:
1. Pre face cards have more color
2. Pips on pre are thicker and even sometimes smuggy on edges.
I had only standard index KEMs for this comparison.
1. Pre face cards have more color
2. Pips on pre are thicker and even sometimes smuggy on edges.
I had only standard index KEMs for this comparison.
Kardwell has some unique Kem designs but they are selling at MSRP and the shipping has been absurdly expensive in the past. I have been tempted to buy these casino designs many times but this has been a deterrent.
If you want to try Kems I would recommend checking Amazon for a deal.
Side note for those that play in casinos that use Kems (which is most of them)....I always thought that the Kems at the casino were thicker than what I had at home as did several of my friends. So I called Kem CS (probably in the mid 2000s) to ask and they emphatically said no. Then these “casino“ and “consumer” cards show up at Kardwell a few years ago and I was like “aha! They were lying to me”....and I called again. Same answer....they claim they are all the same and the same stock the casinos get. Could be just a mental thing.
Oh, and one last thing for anyone new to Kems and doing research; the whole pre and post USPC quality thing is total BS. I have a few sample of both and the the card stock was the same until around 2011 when it got a tad bit rougher. Both pre and post USPC (2006) cards have the exact same tendency to bow or not bow. I have posted pictures here to prove it. Moral is there is no need to seek them out for a premium.
You’re not the only one that’s convinced they’re different. I have thought the same thing for about 20 years now.
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