ekricket
Royal Flush
They cook dinner and wash the dishes too. They can’t travel in time though.
Apex/Black Aurora Poker Chip Cases (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mario Garza
- Start date
They cook dinner and wash the dishes too. They can’t travel in time though.
Now, I don't entirely disagree with you here. However, if you're trying to define what they are designed for, I'd say that traveling/transporting, is more accurate than "Displaying chips at home."
Often times they are on a wheeled cart being pushed around hallways, elevators, bring dual wielded by clumsy floor people, and hastily grabbed and returned to wherever.
Perhaps you weren't being quite so detailed about your definition, and maybe more people HERE, in this community use them for that more often. But I digress, they are definitely NOT made for displaying chips at home, and are indeed made for transporting chips.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Certainly, if the pegs dont add any extra cost, then by all means add them. It tooling/machining the pegs and holes adds to the total cost, I would avoid them. If the posts wiggled at all when in the hole (I don't know your machinists tolerance) then I would avoid them like the plague.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Agreed. They were intended for casino use, transporting chips around the casino floor.
I disagree, but I think you understood where I was coming from. The way *we* use them, they are for moving chips around the house and displaying them when not in use.
I think the argument stems from the word "designed." These were certainly not designed for home use, at least not initially. But regardless of their intended purpose, birdcages are not well-suited for long-distance transportation in a vehicle.
I understand the point that if we can have a better product (like one with pins to keep racks from shifting) at the same cost, do it. But for me, when transporting chips outside my house, it will not be done in a birdcage (with or without pins).
justsomedude
Straight Flush
So much this.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
Two words that mean the same thing, but have slightly different connotations.
Transporting: moving the chips over long distances.
Carrying: moving the chips short distances.
I think the birdcage is designed for carrying and displaying chips, but not for transporting them. I suspect your target demographic are buying a birdcage for precisely both reasons. There are better options for transporting chips if you dont want to display them as well.
Transporting: moving the chips over long distances.
Carrying: moving the chips short distances.
I think the birdcage is designed for carrying and displaying chips, but not for transporting them. I suspect your target demographic are buying a birdcage for precisely both reasons. There are better options for transporting chips if you dont want to display them as well.
OP
OP
I haven't hit up CPC yet, but I will today. As for who sends what brand of racks, I'm trying to acquire ALL of them, but I could use a little direction to speed things up. Anyone know any definitive info on this to save time?
Better use of the polling system. I see how it works now. Thanks. The only problem with doing it all at once is that you guys will have to wait until I have a slightly more concrete design figured out, particularly with the pegs and rack size issue. Have to wait for the 43mm chips and racks to get here to do that accurately, but the basic design is already done.
I feel it's important to include pictures--so there's no ambiguity about what we're voting on--so I'm rendering the concept now.
I see where you guys are coming from. However, if I'm taking my chips outside the house, they will indeed be done in the birdcage if it has any type of locking mechanism on it, and has the card storage as he's described. That handle is so much easier to carry 1000 chips in than any other heavy aluminum case has been. I'm actually super-pumped to use a birdcage for travel and moving these rather than the shotty aluminum cases, and not quite as heavy duty pelican case.
So, hopefully it will be a well rounded, multi use case
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
The problem is that chip racks aren't standard. If it were me, I'd focus on CPC racks and Paulson racks. Your target audience owns these racks, not the cheap generic racks.
What about a collar that slides over the handle and rests on the base of the carrier, with a "lip" extending outward on both sides of the handle. When a rack is placed onto the collar, the groove will securely hold the bottom rack, preventing it from sliding left and right, but also away from the handle.
You can have a collar specifically designed for CPC, Paulson, and Bud Jones racks and maybe even a generic rack collar too. For those with generic racks (because there are way too many to plan for), they can either use the best fit, or they can just eliminate the collar. You could sell one type of rack, then sell collars separately (or sell a rack, and include a collar of choice or an option to eliminate the collar).
This collar can rest on the base, or you could engineer a cutout in the base so that each collar will fit flush in the same footprint (with varying size grooves coming out of the collar) and a blank collar that will give you a flat surface.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
If people are worried about racks sliding, and maring up the clear acrylic, you could just put permanent stops (a bumper) very close to the acrylic.
Fits every rack, every time.
...even custom wood ones.
Fits every rack, every time.
...even custom wood ones.
justsomedude
Straight Flush
I see where you guys are coming from. However, if I'm taking my chips outside the house, they will indeed be done in the birdcage if it has any type of locking mechanism on it, and has the card storage as he's described. That handle is so much easier to carry 1000 chips in than any other heavy aluminum case has been. I'm actually super-pumped to use a birdcage for travel and moving these rather than the shotty aluminum cases, and not quite as heavy duty pelican case.
So, hopefully it will be a well rounded, multi use case
If you're looking to travel with a birdcage your problem will be with your racks well before the birdcage itself. I transported chips in a birdcage in the back of my car once. I say once, because when I got to my destination I found two of the lower racks shattered, and chips splattered everywhere. That was a valuable lesson learned.
Bumpy roads and stacked chips in racks are a terrible combination. If you plan serious vehicular travel with your chips... a birdcage is not going to be your solution.
@One Eyed Dollar brought this idea up to me earlier this week. Just a small raised line on the top surface of the base, near the acrylic, to accomodate all rack sizes, and to keep them from sliding (too far). This approach avoids loose (read: losable) pieces like bench dogs, and minimizes design elements (KISS).
Mental Nomad
Full House
Yeah, in a 1000 count birdcage, the bottom rack has the weight of 500 chips in it. Add potholes and you bounce 500 chips in those bottom plastic rows... Tough to survive.
Can we get one that teaches me how to play poker well? I'd definitely be in for one of those.
BigPappaPump
Sitting Out
Huh?
BigPappaPump
Sitting Out
It would be the weight of 400 chips sir
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Bottom rack holds 100 chips + 4 racks on top of it = the weight of 500 chips
Plus 4 more racks too.
OP
OP
Finally...
Bench dogs with bench dog storage compartments. I think this is the final bench dog iteration. Again, needs refinement, but I need my racks and chips to show up before it will be perfect. This just illustrates the point. The bench dog compartments will sit beneath the acrylic lid to keep them the dogs themselves in place and to conceal them while the Apex is closed. As for the 43mm and 39mm placement, we shouldn't need more than 2 dog holes per corner, one way or another. Just some racks will fit tighter than others. No rack will be very loose.
Bench dogs with bench dog storage compartments. I think this is the final bench dog iteration. Again, needs refinement, but I need my racks and chips to show up before it will be perfect. This just illustrates the point. The bench dog compartments will sit beneath the acrylic lid to keep them the dogs themselves in place and to conceal them while the Apex is closed. As for the 43mm and 39mm placement, we shouldn't need more than 2 dog holes per corner, one way or another. Just some racks will fit tighter than others. No rack will be very loose.
^ hoping this would come with/have available spare bench dogs? 99% chance I never move them from 39mm position but I have a unique talent for losing things.
OP
OP
Definitely. I’m thinking one for each hole would make sense. Sixteen. Then, you could pick which ones to use (8) and the other half would go in the storage compartments.
OP
OP
Be sure to get your votes in on the Apex Capacity Poll, at the top of this page, before January 7!
Holidays were a killer, but I'm back to work on the Apex full-time, once again, with no foreseeable hurdles to getting the case(s) production-ready. Got some 43mm racks and some chips in--not all of them, yet--so I'm breaking out the digital caliper and starting work on the injection-moldable model(s) today. These are the real-world models that will be submitted to our injection molder for approval, complete with all of the necessary injection mold engineering.
PARTS TO MODEL
-----------------------
Bases*:
1) Compartments - Base without card or dealer button compartments, with 39mm + 43mm compatible bench dogs
2) No Compartments - Base with (2) card compartments and (2) dealer button compartments, with 39mm + 43mm compatible bench dogs
3) Flat - Base without card or dealer button compartments, without 39mm + 43mm compatible bench dogs
(*We will take polls on each aspect of the case that's up for discussion, but the above bases are ordered by priority, based upon interest, thus far.)
Handles*:
1) 1200-chip
2) 1000-chip
3) 800-chip
4) 600-chip
5) 400-chip
(*Each handle will have a hole for a pad lock. Order does not reflect community interest.)
To reiterate, we'll take polls on each topic and come up with one version to manufacture first. I'm working on these as fast as I can, but it's also of paramount importance to get the measurements right! So, it will take some time. I thank you all for your patience, so far, and for the patience that I need from you in the near future. Time to get to work!
Holidays were a killer, but I'm back to work on the Apex full-time, once again, with no foreseeable hurdles to getting the case(s) production-ready. Got some 43mm racks and some chips in--not all of them, yet--so I'm breaking out the digital caliper and starting work on the injection-moldable model(s) today. These are the real-world models that will be submitted to our injection molder for approval, complete with all of the necessary injection mold engineering.
PARTS TO MODEL
-----------------------
Bases*:
1) Compartments - Base without card or dealer button compartments, with 39mm + 43mm compatible bench dogs
2) No Compartments - Base with (2) card compartments and (2) dealer button compartments, with 39mm + 43mm compatible bench dogs
3) Flat - Base without card or dealer button compartments, without 39mm + 43mm compatible bench dogs
(*We will take polls on each aspect of the case that's up for discussion, but the above bases are ordered by priority, based upon interest, thus far.)
Handles*:
1) 1200-chip
2) 1000-chip
3) 800-chip
4) 600-chip
5) 400-chip
(*Each handle will have a hole for a pad lock. Order does not reflect community interest.)
To reiterate, we'll take polls on each topic and come up with one version to manufacture first. I'm working on these as fast as I can, but it's also of paramount importance to get the measurements right! So, it will take some time. I thank you all for your patience, so far, and for the patience that I need from you in the near future. Time to get to work!
OP
OP
CPC says they don't carry 43mm racks. Anyone know where I can get some genuine Chipco and Paulson 43mm racks?
Already have some from ABC, Spinetti's--both proprietary--and some from GGS, as mentioned earlier ITT. Are there any others that I'm missing? I need, like, all of 'em.
Edit: In the interest of not putting out misinformation about these, I just edited this post again, after talking with Gene. The rack pictured below is Gene's/ABC's proprietary 43mm rack, not ChipCo's 43mm rack. So we're back to needing Chipco and Paulson 43mm racks.
Any volunteers?
Already have some from ABC, Spinetti's--both proprietary--and some from GGS, as mentioned earlier ITT. Are there any others that I'm missing? I need, like, all of 'em.
Edit: In the interest of not putting out misinformation about these, I just edited this post again, after talking with Gene. The rack pictured below is Gene's/ABC's proprietary 43mm rack, not ChipCo's 43mm rack. So we're back to needing Chipco and Paulson 43mm racks.
Any volunteers?
Last edited:
OP
OP
Progress: Just ordered a couple hundred bucks worth of small tools/parts/accessories that we'll need when we hit the preorder mark, including: welding solvent, bottle-syringe applicators, luer slip syringes, 90° v-groove router bits, rubber tubing, and some 43mm cheapie poker chips from China, just to be thorough. Wanted to make sure that there won't be any hold-ups once we're ready.
Been working on the CAD models for the past couple of days. Slow, but fun process. After this first iteration is done, I'll check them in Moldflow to make sure they're viable, then rinse and repeat. I love this stuff, man.:
Been working on the CAD models for the past couple of days. Slow, but fun process. After this first iteration is done, I'll check them in Moldflow to make sure they're viable, then rinse and repeat. I love this stuff, man.
:
OP
OP
Looks like the 1000-chip case wins by a landslide!
So, I've been modeling, modeling, modeling. The software I use (Fusion 360) is awesome and much faster than anything else I've used in the past...but the process is still a slow one. I ordered a 12" digital caliper and had to wait for that before I took measurements of the 43mm racks and chips. I also re-measured the 39mm chips and racks that I have, just to start fresh.
I also started fresh on all the models of all the parts. I didn't want to simply recycle the 39mm-only Apex and try to make the 43mm chips and racks fit. I wanted this case to be designed from the ground up to handle both sizes and I believe I've done it.
I also wanted to make sure that both versions of the base are congruent--that is the compartmented base and the flat base--even if we're only starting with one type. I had to start with the compartmented model, for self-evident logistical reasons, and I'm about 75% done with it. It should be finished by the end of the week. From there, the non-compartmented revision should be relatively easy and I hope to have that done by this Sunday, Jan 13.
Dogs/Pegs: The 43mm pegs are closer to the outer edge and the 39mm pegs are closer to the center. I made them white so they'd be easier to see in these pics.
Feet: I chose a 1" Diameter x 3.75" H round foot. The last pic shows the gap between the bottom of the case and the bottom of the foot. The feet are only 1.625mm or 0.064". This 1 5/8 millimeter differential keep the bottom of the case off of whatever hard surface you put it on after the foot compresses, but not so much that the feet are obvious. (Note: If I find that the feet make the thickness of the non-compartmented Apex too fat, I may change the design to take thinner feet.)
So, what's next, after the models are finished?
Order 3D printed prototypes.
So, I've been modeling, modeling, modeling. The software I use (Fusion 360) is awesome and much faster than anything else I've used in the past...but the process is still a slow one. I ordered a 12" digital caliper and had to wait for that before I took measurements of the 43mm racks and chips. I also re-measured the 39mm chips and racks that I have, just to start fresh.
I also started fresh on all the models of all the parts. I didn't want to simply recycle the 39mm-only Apex and try to make the 43mm chips and racks fit. I wanted this case to be designed from the ground up to handle both sizes and I believe I've done it.
I also wanted to make sure that both versions of the base are congruent--that is the compartmented base and the flat base--even if we're only starting with one type. I had to start with the compartmented model, for self-evident logistical reasons, and I'm about 75% done with it. It should be finished by the end of the week. From there, the non-compartmented revision should be relatively easy and I hope to have that done by this Sunday, Jan 13.
Dogs/Pegs: The 43mm pegs are closer to the outer edge and the 39mm pegs are closer to the center. I made them white so they'd be easier to see in these pics.
Feet: I chose a 1" Diameter x 3.75" H round foot. The last pic shows the gap between the bottom of the case and the bottom of the foot. The feet are only 1.625mm or 0.064". This 1 5/8 millimeter differential keep the bottom of the case off of whatever hard surface you put it on after the foot compresses, but not so much that the feet are obvious. (Note: If I find that the feet make the thickness of the non-compartmented Apex too fat, I may change the design to take thinner feet.)
So, what's next, after the models are finished?
Order 3D printed prototypes.
Looks like the 1000-chip case wins by a landslide!
Feet: I chose a 1" Diameter x 3.75" H round foot. The last pic shows the gap between the bottom of the case and the bottom of the foot. The feet are only 1.625mm or 0.064". This 1 5/8 millimeter differential keep the bottom of the case off of whatever hard surface you put it on after the foot compresses, but not so much that the feet are obvious. (Note: If I find that the feet make the thickness of the non-compartmented Apex too fat, I may change the design to take thinner feet.)
So, what's next, after the models are finished?
Order 3D printed prototypes.
View attachment 234664
View attachment 234665
Should the rubber feet protrude a bit farther from the recess to allow for some "wear on the tire"?
I see where you guys are coming from. However, if I'm taking my chips outside the house, they will indeed be done in the birdcage if it has any type of locking mechanism on it, and has the card storage as he's described. That handle is so much easier to carry 1000 chips in than any other heavy aluminum case has been. I'm actually super-pumped to use a birdcage for travel and moving these rather than the shotty aluminum cases, and not quite as heavy duty pelican case.
So, hopefully it will be a well rounded, multi use case
IMO pelican style cases are bar none the best way to transport chips.
I believe you. But they aren't also the best way to store and display chips.
I would like to see if a well-designed birdcage would be able to do all three reasonably well. Not be the best performer at all three, but reasonably useful.
Fair enough, I doubt I'll see a birdcage that holds chips secure enough for me personally to trust transportation of the chips. It's not really even the cage, it's the racks stacked higher than 2-3 high that are likely to fail. Not being encased in foam just makes it worse.
RowdyRawhide
Full House
I would make it so those feet are easily removable. I have no desire to leave a permanent imprint mark on my table by accidentally leaving my bird cage on my table too long. Personally they are a solution looking for a problem. Felt bumpers are cheap and would do the same thing if people wanted to add them
No offense but if they aren't easily removable then my interest immediately will go to zero
No offense but if they aren't easily removable then my interest immediately will go to zero
They appear to be just screwed on.
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