A PLO/8 adventure.... (1 Viewer)

bergs

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Game: PLO/8; (25c/50c/$1 semi-mandatory straddle; $125 max buyin). 6 handed. I cover all other players.

Cast: Hero ($650) has a (accurate) hyper LAG image; villain ($450) in the hand is newish to PLO/8...understands how to play but isn't always completely sure how to read the low side of a hi/lo hand.

Hand: Hero (OTB) and looks down at 2348r. Two field players call the straddle and the villain (CO) calls. Hero raises to $4 and gets two calls (field player and villain). ~$15 in the pot.

Flop is A84r. Checks around to Hero, who bets $10. Field player folds, villain calls. ~$35 in pot.

Turn is a K, putting 2 clubs on the board. Villain checks, Hero pots for $35. Villain raises to $75.

WWYD?
 
If you recommend potting, two questions: 1) what hand (hi, lo, or both) are we putting villain on, and 2) are we willing to get it in here?

If you recommend calling, one question: 1) what hand (hi, lo, or both) are we putting villain on?
 
New to PLO8- he has AKxx 85% +. Sometimes he has a bad low, sometimes he has backup clubs, sometime he has nut low only, sometimes he thinks he has a good low and is crushed, <1% he has nut low and a high and you're quartered. I'm stacking off if raised (ldo) but I figure I have way enough equity and fold equity to jam here
 
New to PLO8- he has AKxx 85% +. Sometimes he has a bad low, sometimes he has backup clubs, sometime he has nut low only, sometimes he thinks he has a good low and is crushed, <1% he has nut low and a high and you're quartered. I'm stacking off if raised (ldo) but I figure I have way enough equity and fold equity to jam here

My high isn't that good anymore with 2 over cards on the board.

If he's playing any sort of low here, it's the nut low. He's not raising turn with the 2nd but low (and I don't think he's misread his hand though it's possible if there were 4 lows on the board).

What if we assume that villain is never folding?

(he's never folding with the reraise he just made - there is zero chance of him laying the hand down - does they change how we range him right now?)
 
Our hand is very strong. I don't want to run him out here. Call turn. Bet river from position.

A 2 or 3 really weakens our hand here. We have position and strong hand with an active better. Let's see what the river brings.
 
UPDATE:

Game: PLO/8; (25c/50c/$1 semi-mandatory straddle; $125 max buyin). 6 handed. I cover all other players.

Cast: Hero ($650) has a (accurate) hyper LAG image; villain ($450) in the hand is newish to PLO/8...understands how to play but isn't always completely sure how to read the low side of a hi/lo hand.

Hand: Hero (OTB) and looks down at 2348r. Two field players call the straddle and the villain (CO) calls. Hero raises to $4 and gets two calls (field player and villain). ~$15 in the pot.

Flop is A84r. Checks around to Hero, who bets $10. Field player folds, villain calls. ~$35 in pot.

Turn is a K, putting 2 clubs on the board. Villain checks, Hero pots for $35. Villain raises to $75. Hero calls. Pot is ~$185.

River is another K (board = A84KKr). Villain tries to bet $275 and pulls some back when told that the max bet is $185.

- Do I fold if I think that villain could have a lock low? My two pair just turned into Kings up with a pair of measly 8s. 2399 and better beats me now.
- Do I call and hope I'm getting half?
- Is there ever an argument for raising here? Villain has around $200 left after he potted river.
 
If he's never folding, I call. 3 likely scenarios:

1) We're quartered with a slim redraw to the high
2) He's quartered with a slim redraw to the high
3) We're chopping, each with little/no redraw to the other half.

This is the equivalent of WA/WB in HE. Call here. If river is a 2 or 3 and he bets, fold. If river changes nothing, call. If river is an 8 or 4, go nuts.

Also PFR after limpers is spewtastic. But I understand you've got an image to uphold. :p
 
I call. High was no good anyway and he just filled up. If 5-card I might think about folding, with 4 cards odds he has nut low also are astronomical.
 
Because villain just called on flop, I think we're ahead. On the turn I would think likely still ahead and it's due to villain image (inexperienced, playing one-way hands) but I like the flat. On turn villain backed into trup KK or AK... if he has nut low also, NHGG. Bad river card but I'm only folding here to a good player. No confidence our high hand is good but not giving up my half of the pot. Never raising river here, villain has something he's married to.
 
Also PFR after limpers is spewtastic. But I understand you've got an image to uphold. :p

I raised pot pre-flop every hand for over 2 hours. Every. Single. One. People were limping and pre-loading the pot sized bet waiting for me to fire it out there. Also, the only empty seat at the table was directly to my right. LOL.
 
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Call. If he also has the low, there is decent chance your KK884 is good. he could easily have 2345, 2356, 2367, 2377, or 23 with air just as easily as a higher pocket pair, king, or eight with a better kicker.
 
Nobody in the fold camp? What about if it were a significantly more experienced hi/lo player?
 
I'd call even quicker if it were an experienced player - literally the ONLY quartering hand a decent player can show up with here is exactly KK23. Is he really "inexperienced" enough that he would limp-call / check-call with AK23 or K823? I guess K432 is possible - still never folding.
 
Factoring in your reputation, no. No fold, no way.

You've got a lock on a quarter, and you're calling for a third... If you do better than quarter once in six times, you're good to call, and that assumes you never win the high... and with your reputation, there is too good a chance villain is hoping to scoop with non - nut lows and a strong high.

(fwiw, I have villain on a flush more often than trips or full)

Then again, I'm no PLO8 player.
 
berg, sorry, I was vague. "good player" wasn't accurate since a good player may try to push us off the hand at some point. nitty player I have lots of history with is more accurate. Someone who I can be certain bets the low on flop but backs into a high hand. Even then I think you gotta call and see it.
 
You're guaranteed 1/4 of the pot and getting 2:1 on your money... so in the rare case he has the top and the bottom you lose $45 on your call, when you take the low you make 92 on your call. If you call and somehow quarter him you make 230.

Let's be very pessimistic and say 25% you're quartered, 70% you chop, and 5% you quarter... that is a net +$65 on a very easy call.
 
RESULTS:

Game: PLO/8; (25c/50c/$1 semi-mandatory straddle; $125 max buyin). 6 handed. I cover all other players.

Cast: Hero ($650) has a (accurate) hyper LAG image; villain ($450) in the hand is newish to PLO/8...understands how to play but isn't always completely sure how to read the low side of a hi/lo hand.

Hand: Hero (OTB) and looks down at 2348r. Two field players call the straddle and the villain (CO) calls. Hero raises to $4 and gets two calls (field player and villain). ~$15 in the pot.

Flop is A84r. Checks around to Hero, who bets $10. Field player folds, villain calls. ~$35 in pot.

Turn is a K, putting 2 clubs on the board. Villain checks, Hero pots for $35. Villain raises to $75. Hero calls. Pot is ~$185.

River is another K (board = A84KKr). Villain tries to bet $275 and pulls some back when told that the max bet is $185.

I end up tanking for a couple minutes...I've convinced myself that he's got K23 given how he sort of woke up on the K on the turn when the K hit and wanted to overbet everything when the 2nd K hit the river. I'd been bet/folding more than usual and really didn't want to let this go...I'd never folded the nut low at PLO8 before (and I know this is probably a pretty massive leak).

I finally called and asked "you have the lock low" and he nodded yes and I groaned expecting to get quartered....he has 2369r....and after another 30 seconds, I realize that my two pair is good for the high and I end up quartering him.

I posted this because I was wondering if I got lucky here and called incorrectly. Doesn't sound like anyone thinks that's the case....I damn near folded. Very, very close to folding.

I guess this begs the question - does anyone have an example where they folded the nut low on the river HU in a PLO8 hand?
 
He's a better o8 player than you are giving credit for.

I was basing this on him asking questions about what qualified as a low with a A2458 board previously (he had 23 and didn't think it was good) and another hand where he had something like A4 and thought it was a low on a A48JJ board.

When someone asked him why he raised he said he thought I'd fold...maybe he saw me bet/folding a lot and thought he had some fold equity...most people here that have played with me are surprised when I fold (at all). As it was, he almost got me to lay down a lock low for the first time at a big bet game.
 
What did I say? I knew your eights were good lol. Nh gg

I guess so, but the call felt spewy to me. I was really, really frustrated with the frequency I was (correctly) betting and folding so at the time it felt like I was in "aw fuck it" mode and got lucky....
 
I can imagine a situation where I would fold a sure 1/4 pot paying 1/3 of the pot to call but it would be rare. I need to have no chance at high and a super villain read.

For example, villain only raises on A2xx and did raise. Hero holds A236 and the board is 4 5 T J J.

Hero is getting two to one on the final call even if he has no hope of high. I am not so sure about the Omaha villains I know to lay that down hardly ever.

DrStrange
 

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