Raffles affecting chip prices? (1 Viewer)

hdgeno

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There have been quite a number of raffles lately, and I've been wondering how these are going to affect chip prices in the future. The money some of the sellers are getting for their sets is bordering on insane imo (unless I'm missing something). There's a set being raffled right now that will bring in over $7/chip for the seller, for 5 racks (not even a set imo) of chips.

I guess my question is, what effect will this have on overall chip prices for those sets (mostly the Star chips I suppose). Are those chips really worth $7/chip? For 1 rack/denom? What does this do for actual casino chip sets, with a playable breakdown?

It's entirely possible that I'm missing something, but to me it seems like a raffle is a great way to make insane profit on chips. I also don't really like them, so it could be that I'm just biased.
 
"to me it seems like a raffle is a great way to make insane profit on chips."

Agreed. IMO, the people entering for-profit raffles are suckers, and those running -- and shilling for -- the raffles go on my "no buy/sell" list.

I also suspect that they're a great way to kill a hobby for many people.
 
"to me it seems like a raffle is a great way to make insane profit on chips."

Agreed. IMO, the people entering for-profit raffles are suckers, and those running -- and shilling for -- the raffles go on my "no buy/sell" list.

I also suspect that they're a great way to kill a hobby for many people.

I should have clarified that I have no problem with charity raffles, those I believe are actually great!

To me the for-profit raffles are to the detriment of this hobby
 
I think that raffles have a very short window of opportunity. The target chips must be in high enough demand that a bunch of people don't mind flushing some cash for the somewhat unlikely event they might get lucky. Eventually the chips in question will settle when not that many people will be willing to throw away $20-$40, & cash market prices will return.

As far as the Star chips go, imo, they come with a compelling back story. But they are not to my liking. I much prefer the "real" casino chip. I like the security features like micro dots, UV, etc. None of which is on the Star chips. I think this will always give the real casino made chips an edge.

JT
 
It's entirely possible that I'm missing something, but to me it seems like a raffle is a great way to make insane profit on chips. I also don't really like them, so it could be that I'm just biased.
That is exactly whats happening. Maybe people just don't get the math, I don't know.
 
I suspect... now, I'm not sure about this mind you... but I suspect....

These buyers like to gamble.

I don't think the raffles indicate chip price at all, and they shouldn't affect direct sale prices. The dollar amounts you're seeing reflect how much the sellers are earning for offering a popular lottery. They're earning money for providing the gambling opportunity.
 
Afterthought... people holding such a raffle may be running afoul of gambling laws unless it's for charity.

Someone might be safer who is locking the number of tickets to a set amount - say, selling $20 tickets but capping it at 30 tickets - and giving out a prize worth $600 (which is 30 x $20). Since there's no profit on the raffle, the law may not look so harshly on it.
 
I think raffles exist because chip prices skyrocketed when paulson pulled out of the home market. Raffles allow someone to gambol on acquiring a desirable/large set that they could not afford outright. I personally would not try to get more than asking price for the whole set.
 
To me the for-profit raffles are to the detriment of this hobby
I'm not arguing that you're wrong, but would be interested in hearing your reasoning of specifically how they are a detriment to the hobby.

However, here's a couple of reasons that I think they are not detrimental:
  • raffles don't take away large sums of individual buyer's money (needed to purchase other sets), thereby having a minimal affect on the overall buyer market
  • raffles spread the opportunity to own nice chips across many more people who otherwise wouldn't have the funds to purchase
I mostly dislike raffles only if a) the chips are vastly overvalued, or b) they don't offer a market-price buy-it-now option.

Somebody who really wants the chips (and may have been looking for years) should have an opportunity to purchase (meeting the seller's financial requirements) without having to face a 100:1 shot against at winning them (or worse). Pricing the total cost of the raffle tickets at market value and offering a BIN option accomplishes this.

Selling tickets for an extremely inflated total raffle price simply reflects massive greed on the part of the seller (and other forum members - buyers and sellers alike - definitely take notice of this fact).

As far as raffles affecting chip prices in general, I really don't think they affect them at all. Somebody who wins a set for a $20 ticket with a market value of $1500 isn't going to be able to resell it for $2000 just because somebody else sold 100 tickets at $20 each. In effect, the seller scooped an extra $500 out of the pockets of the community at large (spread across many buyers) to satisfy their own greed. But it takes the cooperation of those buyers/gamblers to make it happen -- if nobody purchased tickets for over-inflated raffle items, the practice would quickly stop.
 
I'm not arguing that you're wrong, but would be interested in hearing your reasoning of specifically how they are a detriment to the hobby.

However, here's a couple of reasons that I think they are not detrimental:
  • raffles don't take away large sums of individual buyer's money (needed to purchase other sets), thereby having a minimal affect on the overall buyer market
  • raffles spread the opportunity to own nice chips across many more people who otherwise wouldn't have the funds to purchase
I mostly dislike raffles only if a) the chips are vastly overvalued, or b) they don't offer a market-price buy-it-now option.

Somebody who really wants the chips (and may have been looking for years) should have an opportunity to purchase (meeting the seller's financial requirements) without having to face a 100:1 shot against at winning them (or worse). Pricing the total cost of the raffle tickets at market value and offering a BIN option accomplishes this.

Selling tickets for an extremely inflated total raffle price simply reflects massive greed on the part of the seller (and other forum members - buyers and sellers alike - definitely take notice of this fact).

As far as raffles affecting chip prices in general, I really don't think they affect them at all. Somebody who wins a set for a $20 ticket with a market value of $1500 isn't going to be able to resell it for $2000 just because somebody else sold 100 tickets at $20 each. In effect, the seller scooped an extra $500 out of the pockets of the community at large (spread across many buyers) to satisfy their own greed. But it takes the cooperation of those buyers/gamblers to make it happen -- if nobody purchased tickets for over-inflated raffle items, the practice would quickly stop.
Great explanation , if you notice the Le Noir raffle is still not filled and many more spots to fill, simply because it's overpriced and to much spots
 
These buyers like to gamble.

This is me, for sure. I buy a few tickets here and there for sets that interest me. It’s a neutral EV way to gamble on something I love... CHIPES.

Does it hurt the market? Maybe. Are the price inflated? Sure. But it’s better than a roulette wheel or baccarat table... :p
 
There's a set being raffled right now that will bring in over $7/chip for the seller, for 5 racks (not even a set imo) of chips.
To be fair, the per chip price would likely end up under $7 (6.90 I figure) as a high number will take 3 at the discount. Additionally it has two racks of the oversize chips. If that one is overpriced it’s really not by a whole lot (couple hundred at most by raffle standards).

if you notice the Le Noir raffle is still not filled and many more spots to fill, simply because it's overpriced and to much spots
That one bugs me. Doesn’t really have to do with the price, I’m one who thinks anyone can ask anything for any chips... but bottom line on raffles is, if it doesn’t sell a large percentage of the spots, say 50%, in the first 24 hours it’s not going to fill. That one has been up almost three months and it’s not even half full. It’s never going to fill... quit bumping it or take it down already.
 
I'm not arguing that you're wrong, but would be interested in hearing your reasoning of specifically how they are a detriment to the hobby.

As far as raffles affecting chip prices in general, I really don't think they affect them at all. Somebody who wins a set for a $20 ticket with a market value of $1500 isn't going to be able to resell it for $2000 just because somebody else sold 100 tickets at $20 each. In effect, the seller scooped an extra $500 out of the pockets of the community at large (spread across many buyers) to satisfy their own greed. But it takes the cooperation of those buyers/gamblers to make it happen -- if nobody purchased tickets for over-inflated raffle items, the practice would quickly stop.
I think they have the potential to affect prices in a positive way - allowing for a “reset” in their cost. If someone wins a nice set for $20, keeps it a while, then sells it for $400 instead of $2000 haven’t they made a great profit? Plus passed some great chips on to the “community” (whatever that word means anymore) at an affordable price for someone else to use and tack a little on when they sale, until they get so friggen high again after about 4-5 exchanges and a raffle is the only way you can sell them.

But greed overcomes community time and time again.
 
That is exactly whats happening. Maybe people just don't get the math, I don't know.

People that pay into the current 500 chip As raffle at $7+ per chip are the same guys that continually make one roll bets at a craps table giving away 17% or more. Maybe they play the Big 6/8 spot too? Stupid.
 
"to me it seems like a raffle is a great way to make insane profit on chips."

Agreed. IMO, the people entering for-profit raffles are suckers, and those running -- and shilling for -- the raffles go on my "no buy/sell" list.

I also suspect that they're a great way to kill a hobby for many people.

Honest question...didn’t you make an “insane” profit on the AS tourney chips you sold?

How is that any different than what anybody else has done?
 
I think most people look at raffles as an opportunity to take a cheap shot at a valuable set. With some of the higher priced sets. I believe that is why the high quantity/low price auction has had some success as of late.

I just multiply the #tickets by price per ticket. If it is above what I think the chips are worth. I view it as a -EV, I don't participate (unless I've been drinking)...

But raffle have place in this community. You simple can't sell many $2K-$4K sets efficiently.
 
But raffle have place in this community. You simple can't sell many $2K-$4K sets efficiently.
I say that’s poop. If there aren’t any buyers for the $2k-$4k sets, then they’re not worth $2k-$4k. A raffle allows the seller to perpetuate the myth that those chips are worth $2k-$4k, and at the same time get that money for those chips. But the fact is that none of these chips have any inherent value. They’re worth exactly as much as somebody will pay or as little as somebody will sell them for. Or some big stupid inflated reffle number.
 
I understand your point. But that is why I said "efficiently". Take the Cleveland HS secondary chips. They have, in my opinion, settled into a fairly tight value range. If you wanted to sell a 1000 piece set, within this range, you may have no buyers for a $3000 set. It does not mean that you have inflated the price. There are just not that many buyers for high dollar sets. (I keep looking at you avatar and thinking of the high priced dunes set that failed to sell... maybe it did eventually)

If you are patient, it could sell. I'd prefer to raffle, get my money, and everyone is happy.
 
perhaps there should be a seperate classified for "sets that will not not be broken". Allowing high priced sets to sit, with out being bumped or buried in "GLWS" posts. Then you could attempt to get your value, without rushing to auction.

Just thinking out loud.
 
If you are patient, it could sell. I'd prefer to raffle, get my money, and everyone is happy
Fair enough - they’re your chips and if you can get that money, good for you: And even if it is a big stupid inflated raffle number, you’re not ripping anybody off, because we’re all adults. I just don’t think it’s good for the hoppy.
And I think the horseshoes and dunes chips are both good examples of market realities - smaller quantities equal bigger per-chip prices. Bigger quantities won’t sell for as much, per chip.
 
perhaps there should be a seperate classified for "sets that will not not be broken". Allowing high priced sets to sit, with out being bumped or buried in "GLWS" posts. Then you could attempt to get your value, without rushing to auction.

Just thinking out loud.
I sorta feel like that’s how the raffles used to be - big, unique, tough to price sets could be marketed that way. But if there are 100,000 of these chips out there and it takes a raffle to sell a 500 chip set? I think our hobby has taken a wrong turn.
 
Honest question...didn’t you make an “insane” profit on the AS tourney chips you sold?

How is that any different than what anybody else has done?
$3.66/per? Has anyone publicly sold a set of them for less?
 
Point to consider:

If I raffle off a $100 bill, selling entries at $10 each, how many would I sell in a room full of poker players and degens?

If I sell 15 entries, I made a nice profit... and if the person who won only bought one or two entries, so did they...

But does ANYONE think the winner can now sell the $100 bill for anything over $100? Has the price been affected, or has something else been going on?
 
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raffles solve the liquidity problem. most people with budgets of 3-4k already spent them...

People doing this a while end up chip rich and cash poor.

As a ticket buyer I dont really like raffles and thats why I havent played any yet. Save for the upcoming WTHC one.
 
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Point to consider:

If I raffle off a $100 bill, selling entries at $10 each, how many would I sell in a room full of poker players?

If I sell 15 entries, I made a nice profit... and if the person who won only bought one or two entries, so did they...

But does ANYONE think the winner can now sell the $100 bill for anything over $100? Has the price been affected, or has something else been going on?

Perfect example.
 
People that pay into the current 500 chip As raffle at $7+ per chip are the same guys that continually make one roll bets at a craps table giving away 17% or more. Maybe they play the Big 6/8 spot too? Stupid.

While I quite frequently play raffles, I have yet to enter this one because it is very blatant profiteering. That being said I still may enter to get a cheap shot at some great chips. I look at situations like this the same way as I do 50/50 draws at sporting events, progressive slot jackpots or buying lottery tickets. If I’ve got a few extra bucks in my pocket when the opportunity presents itself I may take the shot.

People are just paying what is a reasonably insignificant amount of money, to get a shot at something that is quite valuable and otherwise unattainable. I think it’s a stretch to say they are “stupid”.
 

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