2nd Hand of Tournament (1 Viewer)

[rjbf65]

Play a hand with me.

Second hand of a weekly live $40 tournament. No Rebuys. I've played in it maybe 5 times but never with the villain of this hand. There were 26 players in attendance. It's been about 2 months since I played any poker.

My stack $6200
Villain stack $6500
Hand #2 of the night.
I lost $300 in hand #1.
Blinds are 25/50

My hand TcTs and I'm in the cutoff.

Villain raises to 400 from middle position.

I re-raise to 800. Villain Calls.

Flop
Td 8d 4d.

Villain Checks.

What is the move with top set here?

 

[Frogzilla]

What’s the blinds…50/100?

Monotone boards I usually default to a small sizing. I think top set is a bet in position, unblocking a lot of one diamond hands, downbetting to 200-300 feels right

Edit- I misread and thought pot was 800…for a 1600 pot somewhere like 400-600

 

[upNdown]

Yeah, I think you're usually getting a call here, no matter what the villain is holding, so keep building the pot. I'd go $400.

 

[rjbf65]

What’s the blinds…50/100?

Monotone boards I usually default to a small sizing. I think top set is a bet in position, unblocking a lot of one diamond hands, downbetting to 200-300 feels right

Edit- I misread and thought pot was 800…for a 1600 pot somewhere like 400-600

Sorry... Edited the OP. 25/50 blind level. So it was a big opening bet from the villain.

 

[Frogzilla]

Sorry... Edited the OP. 25/50 blind level. So it was a big opening bet from the villain.

Interesting. That’s a really strange preflop line. I have no clue what that range looks like. Should be a fun hand!

 

[DeeVee8]

Play a hand with me.

Second hand of a weekly live $40 tournament. No Rebuys. I've played in it maybe 5 times but never with the villain of this hand. There were 26 players in attendance. It's been about 2 months since I played any poker.

My stack $6200
Villain stack $6500
Hand #2 of the night.
I lost $300 in hand #1.
Blinds are 25/50

My hand TcTs and I'm in the cutoff.

Villain raises to 400 from middle position.

I re-raise to 800. Villain Calls.

Flop
Td 8d 4d.

Villain Checks.

What is the move with top set here?

Rage Quit. Stomp out of the room screaming "fn diamonds"!!!!

 

[LotsOfChips]

Unless you boat up, you could win a little or lose a lot with this hand, especially when another diamond shows up on the river. I would opt for pot control until it is clear that the flush hasn't come in. Maybe a 1/3 pot size bet for information and/or to induce a fold from low diamonds.

 

[GetUrShineBox]

Unless you boat up, you could win a little or lose a lot with this hand, especially when another diamond shows up on the river. I would opt for pot control until it is clear that the flush hasn't come in. Maybe a 1/3 pot size bet for information and/or to induce a fold from low diamonds.

Agree w this play

 

[grebe]

Play a hand with me.

Second hand of a weekly live $40 tournament. No Rebuys. I've played in it maybe 5 times but never with the villain of this hand. There were 26 players in attendance. It's been about 2 months since I played any poker.

My stack $6200
Villain stack $6500
Hand #2 of the night.
I lost $300 in hand #1.
Blinds are 25/50

My hand TcTs and I'm in the cutoff.

Villain raises to 400 from middle position.

I re-raise to 800. Villain Calls.

Flop
Td 8d 4d.

Villain Checks.

What is the move with top set here?

Ok, a couple thoughts....
-We are just over 100 bb's effective here. The cutoff opening to 400 is a very large raise, assuming nobody limped ahead....that's 8 bigs.
-Don't love the sizing of the 3 bet, but don't hate it either since he bet so big ahead of us.
-We didnt get 4 bet...that's good news. Probably eliminates AA-QQ....some people slow down with AK, so let's discount that hand.
-Flop is good....we flop top set however the flush is there. Definitely betting. Chance is low he has two diamonds, greater chance he is going to call with one.
-We have the lead, do not want to relinquish....we bet here with ALL HANDS.

Hero bets 800 again.

 

[grebe]

Unless you boat up, you could win a little or lose a lot with this hand, especially when another diamond shows up on the river. I would opt for pot control until it is clear that the flush hasn't come in. Maybe a 1/3 pot size bet for information and/or to induce a fold from low diamonds.

You cannot control the pot in no limit, as your opponent always has the option to shove at any time. The diamonds is not as bad as you think, because you will continue to get action from many hands worse than ours....like AdQx and worse. I wouldnt be surprised to get calls from random over cards with any diamond. This is an EXCELLENT chance to get value. Being afraid of a made flush will cause you to miss this value.

EDIT: I don't hate the size 1/3 pot bet, but your reasoning is suspect. I want a call here with top set. I actually think we don't even hate a raise in this spot. I am thinking we are just ahead of so many hands we can call an all in here.

 

[raynmanas]

as played so far, you gotta put in a decent-sized bet, maybe a little less than half pot. i probably bet like 775 here.

 

[LotsOfChips]

You cannot control the pot in no limit, as your opponent always has the option to shove at any time. The diamonds is not as bad as you think, because you will continue to get action from many hands worse than ours....like AdQx and worse. I wouldnt be surprised to get calls from random over cards with any diamond. This is an EXCELLENT chance to get value. Being afraid of a made flush will cause you to miss this value.

It's not the made flush that is the worry here, it is the flush draw completing on later streets that are of concern. In a cash game, sure, you can go to value town all day and rebuy when variance kicks you in the teeth. In a tournament where you are one and done, prudence may be the better option, especially early in the game.

I'm not saying don't bet, because you sure as hell don't want to give the flush draws any free cards. But you also want to proceed with caution, because Ad isn't going away cheaply, and you can find yourself throwing a lot of money into the pot in the early streets and then probably having to fold the river when the diamond hits.

And no, you can't control the opponent from going all in, but you sure can control the pot size by not bloating it on early streets.

 

[grebe]

It's not the made flush that is the worry here, it is the flush draw completing on later streets that are of concern. In a cash game, sure, you can go to value town all day and rebuy when variance kicks you in the teeth. In a tournament where you are one and done, prudence may be the better option, especially early in the game.

I'm not saying don't bet, because you sure as hell don't want to give the flush draws any free cards. But you also want to proceed with caution, because Ad isn't going away cheaply, and you can find yourself throwing a lot of money into the pot in the early streets and then probably having to fold the river when the diamond hits.

And no, you can't control the opponent from going all in, but you sure can control the pot size by not bloating it on early streets.

If I KNEW my opponent had the Ad and would not fold, I would SHOVEL my chips in. I will not play "cautiously" as a 3:1 favorite for stacks.

 

[Legend5555]

I agree with a bet on flop. Smallish.

Preflop, if you are going to 3 bet, don't make it so tiny. Villain can't fold any hand for that 3 bet size.

If we go with some old school thinking that this large preflop raise is a biggish pair, then a monotone flop isn't that scary. There are decent amount of people that still do this.

 

[bergs]

I think your hand preflop looks like AA, KK, QQ, JJ, maybe AK.

Before I bet here (cuz I’m gonna on this flop and the question is sizing) I’m thinking about 2 things:

1. What’s my plan if he raises flop?
2. What’s my plan if he checks turn on a brick?

Did you consider either of those before acting on the flop? Curious what your thoughts were.

 

[LotsOfChips]

If I KNEW my opponent had the Ad and would not fold, I would SHOVEL my chips in. I will not play "cautiously" as a 3:1 favorite for stacks.

Closer to 70/30 than 75/25 on this, and again, in a cash game I agree. I might even shove the flop here if I knew he would not fold. But you'll be going home early almost one time in three here doing that, so planning to build the pot slowly and working toward a jam on the river when the flush draw misses will lose you some value, but may keep you in the tournament longer over the long run.

But I've been playing a lot of online tournaments, where the pesky flush draws won't go away no matter how much you bet, and seem to hit the draw more frequently than the odds might indicate should happen (unless it is me chasing the draws LOL).

 

[Moxie Mike]

Villain raises to 400 from middle position.

I know HERO doesn't know this opponent, but is an 8x preflop open standard in this game during the opening round?

My hand TcTs and I'm in the cutoff.

Villain raises to 400 from middle position.

I re-raise to 800. Villain Calls.

So what's the strategy with a min-raise-3-bet after such a massive open?

Flop
Td 8d 4d.

Villain Checks.

What is the move with top set here?

The pot is already pretty big (33.5 BBs). Top set is nice and HERO wants action however HERO must not lay too good of odds for the VILLAIN to continue.

A bet is certainly appropriate. Checking back and giving a free card would be a terribly strategy.

I prefer a bet sized in the 60-75% of the pot range. Small bets just lay too good of a price for the VILLAIN to peel the turn. So a bet of 1000-1200 sounds about right.

 

[LotsOfChips]

I prefer a bet sized in the 60-75% of the pot range. Small bets just lay too good of a price for the VILLAIN to peel the turn. So a bet of 1000-1200 sounds about right.

1675 in the pot, 2400 more when V calls is 4075 in the pot on the flop, with 4200 left behind. H has put in almost 1/3 of his stack, and is now pretty much pot committed. Not much room to do anything but jam on the turn on any card, no river strategy required (or allowed).

Great if it works out, say goodnight if it doesn't.

 

[raynmanas]

Preflop, if you are going to 3 bet, don't make it so tiny.

this is also my critique if we take "as already played" out of the equation. just calling is probably best pre-flop, but if you're going to re-raise, at least make it possible for him to fold.

 

[LotsOfChips]

this is also my critique if we take "as already played" out of the equation. just calling is probably best pre-flop, but if you're going to re-raise, at least make it possible for him to fold.

I agree that PreFlop a call is prudent. V has just opened 8x BB OOP. so probably has a pretty strong range. Hitting top set on a monotone flop would allow you to raise his flop C bet. If he calls the raise, then you have a bit better idea of his range for the turn and river, and your SPR allows you more flexibility. If you missed the flop and see a bunch of Broadway cards turned up, you can get away from it cheaply. Again, lower value, but lower risk.

 

[TKEUofM]

Ugh, these posts kill me...... I'm dying to know the rest of the hand and I always forget to come back for closure on what happened.

 

[Mandos]

this is also my critique if we take "as already played" out of the equation. just calling is probably best pre-flop, but if you're going to re-raise, at least make it possible for him to fold.

I agree, pre-flop i would prefer a bigger 3 bet or call. Either way, if we're already here I think i want somewhere in the 60% of pot range minimum to give villain something to think about.

 

[Moxie Mike]

1675 in the pot, 2400 more when V calls is 4075 in the pot on the flop, with 4200 left behind. H has put in almost 1/3 of his stack, and is now pretty much pot committed. Not much room to do anything but jam on the turn on any card, no river strategy required (or allowed).

Great if it works out, say goodnight if it doesn't.

Aren't we trying to get it in here?

Unless the turn card is gross (another diamond), HERO should be looking to play for stacks. The raw odds that the Villain flopped a flush are <1%.

 

[xdan]

Hearing the term ‘unblocking’ makes me want to scream and smash things

 

[rjbf65]

Play a hand with me.

Second hand of a weekly live $40 tournament. No Rebuys. I've played in it maybe 5 times but never with the villain of this hand. There were 26 players in attendance. It's been about 2 months since I played any poker.

My stack $6200
Villain stack $6500
Hand #2 of the night.
I lost $300 in hand #1.
Blinds are 25/50

My hand TcTs and I'm in the cutoff.

Villain raises to 400 from middle position.

I re-raise to 800. Villain Calls.

Flop
Td 8d 4d.

Villain Checks.

What is the move with top set here?

Hero bets $500
Villain calls

Turn is a 2c

Villain checks

What now?

 

[upNdown]

Hero bets $500
Villain calls

Turn is a 2c

Villain checks

What now?

I guess I'm betting about 75% of the pot and snap-calling any raise.

 

[raynmanas]

Hero bets $500
Villain calls

Turn is a 2c

Villain checks

What now?

go back in time and play this hand different?

 

[Frogzilla]

Hero bets $500
Villain calls

Turn is a 2c

Villain checks

What now?

V range still a puzzle to me. But we are almost certainly ahead of it and can charge value and/or steal equity from lots of hands. I count 2700ish in pot, with 4900 back? 1500 sets up 3400 into 5700 on river. 1500 it is

 

[Moxie Mike]

V range still a puzzle to me. But we are almost certainly ahead of it and can charge value and/or steal equity from lots of hands. I count 2700ish in pot, with 4900 back? 1500 sets up 3400 into 5700 on river. 1500 it is

Considering how HERO has gotten to this point, this makes sense. I still prefer a larger bet sizing on the flop which would set up a jam when the turn blanks off.

As to Villain's range, with no history and no reads it just becomes theoretical. I think you can take AA and KK out of Villain's range based on the preflop action... QQ/JJ is a possibility. With or without a diamond since it's somewhat irrelevant given HERO's bet sizing. Overpairs aren't going away on 1/3 pot bets.

I've seen (weak) players play medium pocket pairs this way preflop... where they put in massive raises with medium pocket pairs hoping to thin the field/take it down without confrontation. As such, I think Villain possibly holds 88 for middle set.

I wouldn't be surprised if the story continued with HERO running into a c/r after a small bet on the flop and turn.

 

[Mandos]

Considering how HERO has gotten to this point, this makes sense. I still prefer a larger bet sizing on the flop which would set up a jam when the turn blanks off.

As to Villain's range, with no history and no reads it just becomes theoretical. I think you can take AA and KK out of Villain's range based on the preflop action... QQ/JJ is a possibility. With or without a diamond since it's somewhat irrelevant given HERO's bet sizing. Overpairs aren't going away on 1/3 pot bets.

I've seen (weak) players play medium pocket pairs this way preflop... where they put in massive raises with medium pocket pairs hoping to thin the field/take it down without confrontation. As such, I think Villain possibly holds 88 for middle set.

I wouldn't be surprised if the story continued with HERO running into a c/r after a small bet on the flop and turn.

Honestly we haven't really given the villain much chance to fold which makes narrowing his range difficult. Do you think villain just check calls the flop with 88 (middle set) on a flush/flush-draw heavy board? Right or wrong as villain if i raised to 8bb preflop with a middle pair I'm probably check raising that flop if i hit my set.