Home game players refuse to chip up? (4 Viewers)

The reason you are having problems is not your players, its your structure. If you don't want to play cash, set up a regular tournament. Problem with tournaments is you will have players knocked out early.

Also, if your players cannot afford to lose, find a new game. Seriously.

I'll say it again: the problem is with your structure, not your players.
I'll repost this. Many obviously missed it.

I try to encourage etiquette and consistency but its hard with mostly a bunch of rookies that don't follow direction. I tried to teach everyone how to shuffle but everyone has their own ideas on that too with many of them being very set in their ways shuffling any way they please. I bought nice expensive cards but they got wrecked in one night so we just play with cheap cards again.
Good players are hard to find so close friends is what I have to deal with if I want to play at all and not travel hours to do it. I've written down and displayed house rules. Nobody reads them or adheres to them. If I try to enforce them they all laugh and keep playing how we have in the past. Sometimes its worse than trying to get my kids to follow the rules. Atleast my kids aren't drunk or drinking.

I just acquired more chips and trying to plan for the next home game.
There was a lot of good input above and I will definitely try some of it.
Having another set of high denomination chips not matching the buy in may be an option later down the road but I'm unwilling to spend more on chips to get lost or wrecked until I get some of the minor issues like attendance and etiquette ironed out.
 
I can solve your problems. After you get enough fracs on the table, do rebuys with big chips. 4x $5. They then swap one with someone has a lot of nickels and quarters (them asking to do it, not you). Don’t put more nickels than you want out there, then you won’t want to buy them back. Don’t even have the extra nickels out, lock em in a cabinet. Someone needs to rebuy, you give them the only chips you have (because all your nickels are already out there in play).
I have actually done this in past before this guy started playing. Worked well, but majority ruled last few times we played and didn't have rebuys in favor of starting a new tournament and having a new hopefully different winner.
 
One last thing: it is not your job to police other people's finances. If someone wants to put $100 on the table (and it's allowable), that is their grown up decision. If they don't want to lose it, they should either not put it up for grabs or play better.

If they have a gambling problem, that's different and I will not get in to that here.
I'm not policing others finances. I'm stating I have a hard time getting enough players as it is. Half of the guys that come are only willing to put in $20 the entire night. If they all lose it in the first hour of play they leave. I understand and appreciate their priorities. They don't have a problem with it and neither do tge rest of us besides not wanting to be with less players. Poker with only 3-4 players is even less fun than drawn out poker with too many 5c chips and any other issues I create with lack of experience with chip bankroll.
 
..... I've written down and displayed house rules. Nobody reads them or adheres to them. If I try to enforce them they all laugh and keep playing how we have in the past. .....

..... I'm unwilling to spend more on chips to get lost or wrecked until I get some of the minor issues like attendance and etiquette ironed out.


I have my house rules printed out and displayed on the wall. I don't think anyone has ever fully read them, but their main function is to be there to back me up on the rare occasion something funny happens. It's only happened a few times, but I'm very happy they are posted on those occasions.

Besides the coloring up issue, what other rule have you tried to enforce that get's shot down? This seems like a major issue.


Sorry I keep bombarding you with questions, but out of curiosity, how often are chips getting lost in your games? And how are they getting wrecked?
 
This makes no sense. Players don’t have the option to refuse color-ups. It happened as part of the natural course of a tournament.
Also, there’s no logical reason for a player to attempt to refuse a color up. Either he’s an idiot or a jerk.
 
This makes no sense. Players don’t have the option to refuse color-ups. It happened as part of the natural course of a tournament.
Also, there’s no logical reason for a player to attempt to refuse a color up. Either he’s an idiot or a jerk.

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Normally, I would let this thread go now, but I am stuck at work awaiting a delivery driver that is stuck on a closed interstate (snowflakes spotted in VA). Here's a couple of thoughts...

Poker with 3-4 guys can be a great night! Play dealer's choice. If you have 4 guys willing to put up $20, play limit .25/.50. This will make a great night....some holdem, omaha, stud, etc. Wild card games if that's your bag. Low Chicago, follow the Queen, SCARNEY!!!!

spread the game YOU want to play. If it's a great game, word will get out eventually. You will lose some players, but a great game will have legs in the long run.
 
I have actually done this in past before this guy started playing. Worked well, but majority ruled last few times we played and didn't have rebuys in favor of starting a new tournament and having a new hopefully different winner.

Majority does not rule....you are the dictator. Run the game.

Dick tater....lol
 
I'll repost this. Many obviously missed it.

I try to encourage etiquette and consistency but its hard with mostly a bunch of rookies that don't follow direction. I tried to teach everyone how to shuffle but everyone has their own ideas on that too with many of them being very set in their ways shuffling any way they please. I bought nice expensive cards but they got wrecked in one night so we just play with cheap cards again.
Good players are hard to find so close friends is what I have to deal with if I want to play at all and not travel hours to do it. I've written down and displayed house rules. Nobody reads them or adheres to them. If I try to enforce them they all laugh and keep playing how we have in the past. Sometimes its worse than trying to get my kids to follow the rules. Atleast my kids aren't drunk or drinking.

I just acquired more chips and trying to plan for the next home game.
There was a lot of good input above and I will definitely try some of it.
Having another set of high denomination chips not matching the buy in may be an option later down the road but I'm unwilling to spend more on chips to get lost or wrecked until I get some of the minor issues like attendance and etiquette ironed out.
I understand why you can’t get new players. Who would want to start playing in something like this with guys like that? I’d never come back.
 
There is nothing wrong with using your cash denominations for tournaments. They have denominations. You match the denominations you have with your blind structure. Perfectly fine. The actual denominations you use do not matter. Don't listen to people suggesting you buy a set of tournament denominations.

It does not matter if you use .05, .25, $1 etc or 5, 25, 100 or 50, 250, 1000. It makes no difference. People who are telling you to buy tournament denominations need to get over it.

The chips you have are not "perfect" but they will work perfectly fine.

The best suggestion in this thread was to stop the clock and REFUSE TO START IT until all the chips are coloured up. That, and you are the host, it is your house, your rules. Respect the host and the house or GTFO. If Mr Pissy Pants wants to run it some other way, ask when is his next game.

Don't screw around with half measures like colouring chips up out of pots. STOP THE CLOCK until all the chips are coloured out.
 
I kind of see where this thread is going, so I'd just like to add to OP:

You're in a situation where what you think is the problem isn't actually the problem -- that means people with a great deal of experience hosting successful tournaments are going to chime in with advice on starting stacks and time increments versus how to handle this specific player in your game. It's good advice and the sooner you consider taking it, the better your tourneys will run and the more likely new/better players will start showing up.

Good luck!

This!

At the risk of piling on, and certainly not from a place of malice, but OP the better players you are looking for, are likely playing at better run games.
 
I have my house rules printed out and displayed on the wall. I don't think anyone has ever fully read them, but their main function is to be there to back me up on the rare occasion something funny happens. It's only happened a few times, but I'm very happy they are posted on those occasions.

Besides the coloring up issue, what other rule have you tried to enforce that get's shot down? This seems like a major issue.


Sorry I keep bombarding you with questions, but out of curiosity, how often are chips getting lost in your games? And how are they getting wrecked?
Shuffling with cards up or visible half the time. Bending cards, throwing cards and chips. I rarely get all the chips back finding some on the floor sweeping a few days later. Its not so much anger issues as its just a bunch of monkeys that don't care. Folding out of turn. Most of them want to drink, talk, and play cards 3rd in that order.
Me and the two older guys I played cash games with back in the day want to play cards, talk, eat food and don't drink.
I'm a foodie and so are those two.
We always have good stuff to eat between the 3 of us. The rest rarely bring anything but alcohol.
 
Shuffling with cards up or visible half the time. Bending cards, throwing cards and chips. I rarely get all the chips back finding some on the floor sweeping a few days later. Its not so much anger issues as its just a bunch of monkeys that don't care. Folding out of turn. Most of them want to drink, talk, and play cards 3rd in that order.
Me and the two older guys I played cash games with back in the day want to play cards, talk, eat food and don't drink.
I'm a foodie and so are those two.
We always have good stuff to eat between the 3 of us. The rest rarely bring anything but alcohol.

These are adults acting like this?

Sounds like they need some serious education. If I played at your game, with that behavior going unchecked I would probably cash out early and never return.

Good luck. Sounds like you have a bunch of issues to fix.
 
Shuffling with cards up or visible half the time. Bending cards, throwing cards and chips. I rarely get all the chips back finding some on the floor sweeping a few days later. Its not so much anger issues as its just a bunch of monkeys that don't care. Folding out of turn. Most of them want to drink, talk, and play cards 3rd in that order.
Me and the two older guys I played cash games with back in the day want to play cards, talk, eat food and don't drink.
I'm a foodie and so are those two.
We always have good stuff to eat between the 3 of us. The rest rarely bring anything but alcohol.

Wow.....That sounds crazy.

Now I think the best thing you can do is to just host games with your two other friends who act normal, and try to slowly expand the game with respectful players.
 
@Sparkynutz i have a group like this as well. Don’t think most here can even imagine what it’s like. There’s a lot of good advice here that can be applied in the future but for now I would just invest your time in finding and recruiting real poker players. Replacing the players who are just looking to drink, socialize, and oh yeah I guess play “poker” is the key. If you can’t do that I still think there’s advice here that can be helpful for you though may not fix the main problem.
 
Wow.....That sounds crazy.

Now I think the best thing you can do is to just host games with your two other friends who act normal, and try to slowly expand the game with respectful players.
Most of the people I’ve ever played cards with at home games are probably closer to drink/talk/play cards than anything else. It can work very well. You just need a host or a table captain or two who keep the game going.
 
OK, where in WI are you? For starters, you need to branch out and play different games, and I'd love to have you at one of my cash games. We typically start out with $.25/.50 NLHE with $60 max buyins. Then we progress to $100 max by the end of the night. Usually people are up or down nominal amounts, and it's low stakes. It's been a minute since I've hosted a tourney (pre-covid), but it's darn near time I got back to hosting tourneys. Of course you'd be invited to the next tourney I host. :)

Now, onto your game. So much good advice here ITT, and many of us see ourselves in your OP. When I first started, I had a vision of what I thought good poker was, what I thought good structure was, and what I thought good chips were. I was 1000% wrong on all fronts. It took me opening up to other experts and listening to their advice..

You mentioned several times about the lack of good players. Well, TBH, your current structure seems like a hot mess (not trying to be rude). AND any person who considers themselves a poker player (friendly neighbor type or seasoned pro) will balk at wanting to play such a game. I get invited all the time games hosted by people who have no clue what they're doing. I've had friends tell me about these games, but I rarely reach out to the host, so they never even know what players they're missing due to their bad game reputation. These games are badly structured and full of horrible etiquette, I avoid them.

I do hit up one neighbor game (a holiday poker tourney) each year. It started out horrible, bad etiquette and structure. I literally just went, paid my $20 entry, and ate food and chatted... The poker was shite. I struggled at first on how to offer to help the host, without coming across as douchey. Most of the 3 tables of players fall into the "I'll call your bet.. and raise you 2000 more" crowd. Eventually the host allowed me to "run" the tourney, institute some rules and structure (yes some players did balk), but now the guests specifically ask the host if I'll be running the game and bringing my nice chips...

So I wonder if it's a player problem or a structure problem? To quote Field of Dreams "If you build it, they will come".

My advice is to completely start over on a tournament level. Many of us here (myself included) would be happy to voice chat to go over your existing game dynamics and help you craft a chip set that fits your group and game size. I have a lot of experience with these type of turbo tourneys in a friendly neighbor group. You said you play a few times per year, so hopefully you have some time to work on things...

BUT if you want to host sooner, and use your existing chips, I'd seriously look at scrapping the 1 for 1 cash denom practice. Sure, some old codger might have an easier time with wrapping their heads around bet sizing, but your players will quickly adjust. but as some of have said, you can use your existing chips, but should structure the buyin chips to facilitate better play. You don't need that many small chips in play.

Secondly, YOU are running the game, it's your house. I'd have written down blinds (not doubling), and then list a break and colorup. You can easily handle the "I don't wanna give up my tons of low denom chips" guy by explaining that after color up, those lower denom chips aren't in play and will be worthless, so He'd rather get nice higher denom chips that will help him win the tournament. :) As noted already, you can also reduce the numbers of low denom chips (as the host), but coloring up in game close to the break. Literally when he bets all those small chips, and they get put into the middle (when you're not in the hand), simply remove the smaller chips and replace them with bigger chips. This is totally acceptable to cull the smaller chips out of the pot for game management. It's no different than someone making change from the existing pot, except YOUR the house and changing up the chips in clear view of all, nothing shady about it.

The other piece of advice I give hosts is to never ever (and I mean ever) use the same chips for tourney and cash. 100% of the people I give this advice to respond back with "but these are close friends, and they're trustworty".. Ya, that's great, but I've seen examples of good friends (and regulars) cheating at home games (and getting caught on video). The concept of allowing the same sets to be used for both introduces the "possibility" of crossing chips and other shenanigans.. taking a worthless T25 tourney chip into a cash game, where it's valued at $25... Your friends might be trustworthy, but if you create a more secure environment, ALL your honest players will appreciate what you're doing (when they are risking money on the table).

Feel free to PM me if you wanna chat.

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As far as your other rules are concerned. Before you start next time, point out the rules posted and emphasize that they will be followed. Only one person is allowed to make a decision and as the host, that person is YOU. It is not rules by committee. Again, make it a matter of respect - your house, your rules.

If there are complaints, just say sorry, I am going to have to insist. It is a matter of respect. Either show some respect or GTFO.

You are the one providing, the space, and the materials for THEIR entertainment. Don't let disrespectful idiots ruin YOUR entertainment. If something bothers you, DO something about it. It is YOUR house.
 
Wow.....That sounds crazy.

Now I think the best thing you can do is to just host games with your two other friends who act normal, and try to slowly expand the game with respectful players.
Unfortunately one of these is the one who refuses to shuffle decent. He isn't stacking the deck or looking. He shuffles well and fast just always does the fan thing or whatever you call it and we see the bottom card every time you look his direction. Old and set in his ways like the rest. I love hosting and hanging out with friends tho. What I think I need is to bring them along to a very strict organized game somewhere else to break them of their shitty habits. I'm too much of a people pleaser to accomplish that on my own 1 or 2 times a year I'm lucky enough to get enough guys to even play.
 
Most of the people I’ve ever played cards with at home games are probably closer to drink/talk/play cards than anything else. It can work very well. You just need a host or a table captain or two who keep the game going.

Sure. I have a group of 8 players, and I'd say most of them are in the socialize>drink>play cards category. A handful of times per night I have to remind someone that action is on them, a couple times a night someone acts/folds out of turn. That's not a deal breaker, we're all just there to have fun.

But shuffling with cards face up/exposing cards, bending cards, throwing chips and cards, losing chips.....that's too much. Add to that players openly disrespecting and not following the hosts rules.
 
I'll repost this. Many obviously missed it.

I try to encourage etiquette and consistency but its hard with mostly a bunch of rookies that don't follow direction. I tried to teach everyone how to shuffle but everyone has their own ideas on that too with many of them being very set in their ways shuffling any way they please. I bought nice expensive cards but they got wrecked in one night so we just play with cheap cards again.
Good players are hard to find so close friends is what I have to deal with if I want to play at all and not travel hours to do it. I've written down and displayed house rules. Nobody reads them or adheres to them. If I try to enforce them they all laugh and keep playing how we have in the past. Sometimes its worse than trying to get my kids to follow the rules. Atleast my kids aren't drunk or drinking.

No offense, but you're not helping your cause, and likely promulgating bad habits and engraining poor play with your wonky structure.

As previously stated... play cash or play tourney. Make hard/firm rules. But trying to create some hybrid-quasi-cash-tourney structure isn't helping things.

God help all of these players if they ever wind up in a legitimate game.
 
Unfortunately one of these is the one who refuses to shuffle decent. He isn't stacking the deck or looking. He shuffles well and fast just always does the fan thing or whatever you call it and we see the bottom card every time you look his direction. Old and set in his ways like the rest. I love hosting and hanging out with friends tho. What I think I need is to bring them along to a very strict organized game somewhere else to break them of their shitty habits. I'm too much of a people pleaser to accomplish that on my own 1 or 2 times a year I'm lucky enough to get enough guys to even play.

Well, I'd rather have that than have crazy drunks throwing chips. Especially if he's one of the guys bringing good food!

Two easy solutions

1) get some cut cards so you can't see the bottom card

2) you become permanent dealer in your home games. I've done this, but I really enjoy dealing. And it helps me control the flow of the game.
 
OK, where in WI are you? For starters, you need to branch out and play different games, and I'd love to have you at one of my cash games. We typically start out with $.25/.50 NLHE with $60 max buyins. Then we progress to $100 max by the end of the night. Usually people are up or down nominal amounts, and it's low stakes. It's been a minute since I've hosted a tourney (pre-covid), but it's darn near time I got back to hosting tourneys. Of course you'd be invited to the next tourney I host. :)

Now, onto your game. So much good advice here ITT, and many of us see ourselves in your OP. When I first started, I had a vision of what I thought good poker was, what I thought good structure was, and what I thought good chips were. I was 1000% wrong on all fronts. It took me opening up to other experts and listening to their advice..

You mentioned several times about the lack of good players. Well, TBH, your current structure seems like a hot mess (not trying to be rude). AND any person who considers themselves a poker player (friendly neighbor type or seasoned pro) will balk at wanting to play such a game. I get invited all the time games hosted by people who have no clue what they're doing. I've had friends tell me about these games, but I rarely reach out to the host, so they never even know what players they're missing due to their bad game reputation. These games are badly structured and full of horrible etiquette, I avoid them.

I do hit up one neighbor game (a holiday poker tourney) each year. It started out horrible, bad etiquette and structure. I literally just went, paid my $20 entry, and ate food and chatted... The poker was shite. I struggled at first on how to offer to help the host, without coming across as douchey. Most of the 3 tables of players fall into the "I'll call your bet.. and raise you 2000 more" crowd. Eventually the host allowed me to "run" the tourney, institute some rules and structure (yes some players did balk), but now the guests specifically ask the host if I'll be running the game and bringing my nice chips...

So I wonder if it's a player problem or a structure problem? To quote Field of Dreams "If you build it, they will come".

My advice is to completely start over on a tournament level. Many of us here (myself included) would be happy to voice chat to go over your existing game dynamics and help you craft a chip set that fits your group and game size. I have a lot of experience with these type of turbo tourneys in a friendly neighbor group. You said you play a few times per year, so hopefully you have some time to work on things...

BUT if you want to host sooner, and use your existing chips, I'd seriously look at scrapping the 1 for 1 cash denom practice. Sure, some old codger might have an easier time with wrapping their heads around bet sizing, but your players will quickly adjust. but as some of have said, you can use your existing chips, but should structure the buyin chips to facilitate better play. You don't need that many small chips in play.

Secondly, YOU are running the game, it's your house. I'd have written down blinds (not doubling), and then list a break and colorup. You can easily handle the "I don't wanna give up my tons of low denom chips" guy by explaining that after color up, those lower denom chips aren't in play and will be worthless, so He'd rather get nice higher denom chips that will help him win the tournament. :) As noted already, you can also reduce the numbers of low denom chips (as the host), but coloring up in game close to the break. Literally when he bets all those small chips, and they get put into the middle (when you're not in the hand), simply remove the smaller chips and replace them with bigger chips. This is totally acceptable to cull the smaller chips out of the pot for game management. It's no different than someone making change from the existing pot, except YOUR the house and changing up the chips in clear view of all, nothing shady about it.

The other piece of advice I give hosts is to never ever (and I mean ever) use the same chips for tourney and cash. 100% of the people I give this advice to respond back with "but these are close friends, and they're trustworty".. Ya, that's great, but I've seen examples of good friends (and regulars) cheating at home games (and getting caught on video). The concept of allowing the same sets to be used for both introduces the "possibility" of crossing chips and other shenanigans.. taking a worthless T25 tourney chip into a cash game, where it's valued at $25... Your friends might be trustworthy, but if you create a more secure environment, ALL your honest players will appreciate what you're doing (when they are risking money on the table).

Feel free to PM me if you wanna chat.

View attachment 840124
Thanks for the input and reply.
I have talked to you before and would love to play with you. Unfortunately we are a few hours apart.
The honesty and chip thing keeping them seperate from cash game vs tournament is a non issue if I stay dollar for dollar in every game as I have done.
My neck of the woods is very clicky.
Its all about popularity and keeping up with the Joneses type crap. I know a lot of people within 2 miles of me that play often but I'm not popular and never will be so I'm not invited. Really has nothing to do with how my game is or isn't ran in a small town like mine. It's more about gossip who was where and why would you play with them kinda crap.
Eventually someday I'll find some players and friends that got past high school bs but its a slow process.
 
Well, I'd rather have that than have crazy drunks throwing chips. Especially if he's one of the guys bringing good food!

Two easy solutions

1) get some cut cards so you can't see the bottom card

2) you become permanent dealer in your home games. I've done this, but I really enjoy dealing. And it helps me control the flow of the game.
I would but I suck at shuffling.
 
a cut card should be used, always.
I got some. No-one will use it but me and I suck at shuffling so I'm probably not doing it right and only youtube to go off.
I'm a bit of a fumble fingers but try my best.
 
The honesty and chip thing keeping them seperate from cash game vs tournament is a non issue if I stay dollar for dollar in every game as I have done.

But therein lies one of the issues you face with the differing blind structures. If you have a tourney set, and a set structure that works, THEN you can simply increase or decrease the buyin amount based on whim. The structure doesn't change...
 
But therein lies one of the issues you face with the differing blind structures. If you have a tourney set, and a set structure that works, THEN you can simply increase or decrease the buyin amount based on whim. The structure doesn't change...
I still can if I have enough bankroll which I do now once I label more $5's and $20's
Starting chips would only be added to
 

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