BAP Interest Thread - 25/50 PLO Livestream Best Bet Jacksonville (3 Viewers)

WINNING SESSION

Starting Session Roll: $20,000
Ending Session Roll: $30,000
Session Profit: $10,000

Profit Split:

25% of the buyin was my own funds so I get $2,500 of the profit

That leaves $7,500 to be divvied up. Of that I get 20% or $1,500.
I'm not in, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but I'm super confused.

On winning sessions, you're taking a 20% markup? With these maths, that gives you 40% of a 10k profit ($2500 + $1500) on a 25% investment -- and leaves the backers with 60% of the 10k profit.

If I put up the same 25% as you, what do I get? One-third of the $6000 remaining profit? So $2000? Half of what you get for the same investment?
 
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I'm not in, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I get that you're going to have expenses (hotel and gas) that you shouldn't be wholly responsible for. Sounds like you're willing to gamble on these costs because of you lose, you pay them... But if you win, 20% of the profits are earmarked for travel costs.a

but rather than the 20% markup (which on these maths gives you 40% of a 10k profit on a 25% investment -- and leaves the players with 60% of the 10k profit), just estimate your hotel/gas costs and make that a factor of the stake.

For example, say gas and hotel cost $400 (totally arbitrary number, but I'm sure you can get close), that's 2% of your starting bankroll. So everyone pays that 2% proportionally. If I want a 25% share, I pay $5k + 2% (or $5100). If @CraigT78 wants to stake you for 50% share, he pays $10k + 2% (or $10,200).

Then the profit gets split even. On a $10k profit, I get my $5k back + 25% of the profit = $7500 and @CraigT78 gets back $10k + 50% of the profit.

So if I sold 100% of my action and won 10k in profit I would receive $200 and the rest of the profit would go to the backer(s)?
 
I hit SEND by accident and changed my comments.

You said you were covering hotel/gas (which I don't think is fair to you). But, you're getting twice the profit of someone investing the same amount.

You invest $2500 and get $4k profit.
I invest $2500 and get $2k profit.

If that's how you're going to structure it, thats between you and the backers, but you're always going to get twice as much as me for the same investment. And the dollar spread gets bigger as the profits go up. I recognize that with makeup, I have zero risk. That's worth something... But is it worth getting half the profits?

If you double up to $20k profit, you get $8k of that... $4000 more than I get for the same investment.

If I were investing, I'd be more comfortable with 20%, capped at a dollar amount. I'd also be comfortable paying a percentage of your expenses (estimated in advance).

So if I sold 100% of my action and won 10k in profit I would receive $200 and the rest of the profit would go to the backer(s)?

If there's no makeup, now you have zero risk. So you should have a 20% upside and zero downside? I think if you agree that you will take a minimum percentage (so you have some risk), that would make me more comfortable.

Seriously, if you want to tell me to STFU because I'm not planning on backing, that's fine
 
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Do any Cubans play in this game?

If so:
1601988401544.gif
 
I hit SEND by accident and changed my comments.

You said you were covering hotel/gas (which I don't think is fair to you). But, you're getting twice the profit of someone investing the same amount.

You invest $2500 and get $4k profit.
I invest $2500 and get $2k profit.

If that's how you're going to structure it, thats between you and the backers, but you're always going to get twice as much as me for the same investment. And the dollar spread gets bigger as the profits go up. I recognize that with makeup, I have zero risk. That's worth something... But is it worth getting half the profits?

If you double up to $20k profit, you get $8k of that... $4000 more than I get for the same investment.

If I were investing, I'd be more comfortable with 20%, capped at a dollar amount. I'd also be comfortable paying a percentage of your expenses (estimated in advance).


If I sold 100% of myself at the 80/20 split then on a 10K profit session it would be:

Me: 2K share
Backers: 8K share

Obviously I'm willing to partially fund some of this session myself, although I'm not averse to selling 100% of the action and doing an 80/20 split either.

In that scenario, my "investment" is my time and skill, which obviously has to have some sort of value attached to it. If I was selling 100% of my action for this session what do you feel would be a fair split?
 
In that scenario, my "investment" is my time and skill, which obviously has to have some sort of value attached to it.

I agree there is value to your skill/time. But we have the same risk with no makeup. So is your skill worth twice as much profit as I take -- with the same risk?

If I was selling 100% of my action for this session what do you feel would be a fair split?

In a game where you've never played and have zero track record, against players who are unknown and you have zero track record? I wouldn't want to back in that situation without makeup. That's just me, tho. And that's not being critical of your play or your skill. But until I know you can beat that game, I don't have a fair assessment of how much risk I am taking...I don't know what I'm getting myself in to.
 
All staking I’ve done, either way, was friendly and no markup.

You came to us wanting to play in a game bigger than you were comfortable, I’m ok to pitch in to make that possible, but markup off the table for me

So if I sold 100% of my action what would be my share for my time and skill playing the game? I do want to be fair, I'm just going off the limited info I could find online about this sort of thing for just one session.
 
All staking I’ve done, either way, was friendly and no markup.

You came to us wanting to play in a game bigger than you were comfortable, I’m ok to pitch in to make that possible, but markup off the table for me

I guess this works in to my thinking a little bit also. If this was a game you could bankroll yourself, you'd be giving away profits by taking stakes, and there is value in that for you. But in this scenario, you can't play in the game without stakes. You need backers as much as backers need your time and skill. Its already a quid pro quo with both sides getting something out of the deal, without the markup.
 
I agree there is value to your skill/time. But we have the same risk with no makeup. So is your skill worth twice as much profit as I take -- with the same risk?



In a game where you've never played and have zero track record, against players who are unknown and you have zero track record? I wouldn't want to back in that situation without makeup. That's just me, tho. And that's not being critical of your play or your skill. But until I know you can beat that game, I don't have a fair assessment of how much risk I am taking...I don't know what I'm getting myself in to.

I've played 5/10/25, but very limited exposure because it rarely runs. I have 14 hours playing it with $3,812 profit ($289/hr) And that was utilizing a short-stacking strategy of buying in for $500 and trying to spin it up against the deeper-stacked over-aggressive players.

Given this 25/50 game would be no max buyin, I would likely employ a similar strategy of buying in for $2,500 and spinning it up.

I have a proven track record over the past year at 1/2/5 and 2/5/10, of course. Guess I'll see when they livestream the first time this runs what kind of action to expect.
 
I've played 5/10/25, but very limited exposure because it rarely runs. I have 14 hours playing it with $3,812 profit ($289/hr) And that was utilizing a short-stacking strategy of buying in for $500 and trying to spin it up against the deeper-stacked over-aggressive players.

Given this 25/50 game would be no max buyin, I would likely employ a similar strategy of buying in for $2,500 and spinning it up.

I have a proven track record over the past year at 1/2/5 and 2/5/10, of course. Guess I'll see when they livestream the first time this runs what kind of action to expect.

Do you think you could sit down against any players in the world at any stakes and have a similar win rate?

If not, then your comparison is apples and oranges.

And I'm not insulting your skill, win rate or hourly (frankly, I'm jealous). But I don't think 14 hours of 5/20/25 can be extrapolated to a 25/50 game against unknowns.
 
Do you think you could sit down against any players in the world at any stakes and have a similar win rate?

If not, then your comparison is apples and oranges.

And I'm not insulting your skill, win rate or hourly (frankly, I'm jealous). But I don't think 14 hours of 5/20/25 can be extrapolated to a 25/50 game against unknowns.

Agreed, it was just the closest comparison I could provide. Sometimes higher stakes can be easier, depending on who's in the lineup, as some players are just more willing to gamble.

I've sat at 1/2 and it's been full of tight younger kids and sat in 2/5/10 with a girl who didn't realize her 99xx was garbage on the 348 flop and was blown away when she lost to me when I had flopped a wrap.

Whatever the case, I think we're trying to nail down what is fair, which I get and which is why I'm having the back and forth.

So again, if I sold 100% of my action, what should my fair share be in that instance if I win a theoretical 10K in profit?
 
Why don't you just go even with any backers for the first few sessions since it's unknown, but get them to pitch in evenly for the cost of your accommodation.
 
I agree. So again, if I sold 100% of my action, what is a fair cut for me if I won 10k?
I’ve done deals like you propose, but only where the player is a proven winner in the particular game.

When players who are “stepping up” ask me to stake them, it always been without a markup until they prove that they can be profitable. YMMV.
 
Why don't you just go even with any backers for the first few sessions since it's unknown, but get them to pitch in evenly for the cost of your accommodation.

Which is where I was going with the 2% comment above (that I later changed). If you want 25% action on $10,000 bankroll, you pay $2,500 + 2% ($50) = $2,550 and get 25% of the profits.

I agree. So again, if I sold 100% of my action, what is a fair cut for me if I won 10k?

Even at 10% markup, you're still getting a 44.4% advantage over someone making the same investment with the same risk.

10% of $10k profit25% of $9k remaining profitTotal profit
@Anthony Martino (25%)$1,000$2,250$3,250
Backer A (25%)$0$2,250$2,250
Backer B (25%)$0$2,250$2,250
Backer C 25%$0$2,250$2,250

You're getting $1,000 more than any backer with the same investment and risk. That's 44.4% more reward for the same risk (1000/2250). If you sold everything (i.e had zero risk and only upside -- an arrangement I'd never agree to (not because I don't trust you as an investment or a human being)), you'd make $1000 for you 20 hours (drive time + table time + time away from home). That's $50 hour with no risk if you lose.
 
Why would you need to sell 100% to get the game inside your bankroll criteria? I thought you were still gonna have 50%+ of yourself

Assuming a 20k roll for the game I had planned for 5k of that to be my money

I'm presenting the 100% of myself sold to show it would be silly for me to take 2% and on a 10k profit win $200 if I was 100% backed

I'm using the 100% as an example to try and arrive at a fair value for my time and skill playing PLO
 
Ever watch Shark Tank?

The investors are putting up the money for a % of the business and then get that same % back of the profit and aren’t doing the day to day work of the business. It takes money to make money.

the question is how important is it to you to play in this game?
 
Ever watch Shark Tank?

The investors are putting up the money for a % of the business and then get that same % back of the profit and aren’t doing the day to day work of the business. It takes money to make money.

the question is how important is it to you to play in this game?

Not important enough to sell my action with zero markup except for shared hotel expenses.
 
Another way to look at is your skill is earning you a 0% interest loan. If you went to the bank to borrow $15k they would charge you interest on the loan and you are on the hook for the whole amount.

So because of your skill you are able to get an interest free loan that you don’t have to pay back any of the loan if you lose it.

Personally I wouldn’t pay any markup on a player jumping up in stakes to a new game that he knows none of the players in.
 
Another way to look at is your skill is earning you a 0% interest loan. If you went to the bank to borrow $15k they would charge you interest on the loan and you are on the hook for the whole amount.

So because of your skill you are able to get an interest free loan that you don’t have to pay back any of the loan if you lose it.

Personally I wouldn’t pay any markup on a player jumping up in stakes to a new game that he knows none of the players in.

Now THIS is a good response and makes sense.

However, why would I travel the distance to Jacksonville with no profit beyond what I put into the game.

Let's say I could theoretically earn $300/hr in this game. I get 25% of it becuase I put up 5k of 20k. So I'm making $75/hr

I could just stay in Tampa and make the same or more in the 2/5/10 games without having to travel
 
Now THIS is a good response and makes sense.

However, why would I travel the distance to Jacksonville with no profit beyond what I put into the game.

Let's say I could theoretically earn $300/hr in this game. I get 25% of it becuase I put up 5k of 20k. So I'm making $75/hr

I could just stay in Tampa and make the same or more in the 2/5/10 games without having to travel
You could, but you want to go play in that game and you need the funds to get you there. Your potential backers don't care if you play the game or not. You do
 
Now THIS is a good response and makes sense.

However, why would I travel the distance to Jacksonville with no profit beyond what I put into the game.

Let's say I could theoretically earn $300/hr in this game. I get 25% of it becuase I put up 5k of 20k. So I'm making $75/hr

I could just stay in Tampa and make the same or more in the 2/5/10 games without having to travel

because the potential upside is much bigger in a one off game than $300/hr. A game this size could see a profit of $20-30k pretty easily. Even more unless you have a profit stop mark set to make sure you don’t lose it all on a cooler.
 
Now THIS is a good response and makes sense.

However, why would I travel the distance to Jacksonville with no profit beyond what I put into the game.

Let's say I could theoretically earn $300/hr in this game. I get 25% of it becuase I put up 5k of 20k. So I'm making $75/hr

I could just stay in Tampa and make the same or more in the 2/5/10 games without having to travel

Your expected win rate would be higher than $300/hr due to the stakes of the game, right?
 
Your expected win rate would be higher than $300/hr due to the stakes of the game, right?

Possibly, or it might even out due to more skilled opponents or other factors

I think it's best to sit the first one out, see how the game runs and consider it for next month if it runs again, given there are 12 on the list already
 

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