Crest & Seal (2 Viewers)

[allforcharity]

You can't beat a dead horse to death, because it's already dead.

 

[mtl mile end]

I was thinking about it in theory. I was wondering if anybody had done it. I have no more paranoids, so I can't do it. I don't plan on buying any paranoids just so I can indulge in this debauched fantasy. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, CAN'T A MAN WONDER OUT LOUD?!?!?!? Damn, that's another thing I'm going to have to bring to confession.

I would say the result would be:
- a bitch to mill - like milling a ceramic
- fugly - like you had milled a ceramic

 

[allforcharity]

Conspiracy to commit murder THROW THE BOOK!!

Conspiracy? I'm already avowed! It's like adding two weeks penalty to a 5 consecutive life sentences.

 

[Chipenhagen]

I think the innovation of the chip type is providing a chip with an inlaid lithographically-printed design custom-made for the purchasing club rather than using a stock design, whether die-cut inlaid, engraved, embossed, or plain. The Burt Company flyer describing them says:



See http://www.marlowcasinochips.com/links/allanmyers/cands/cands.htm and in particular http://www.marlowcasinochips.com/links/allanmyers/cands/am1_9s.jpg

Using lamination to protect the printing is an important innovation, in that it allows the chip to use a printed inlay at all. But the value to the customer is not in the lamination, it's in the ability to use a printed inlay with a custom design so as to - as the flyer says - protect against ringers (duplicate chips). The lamination is described accurately as "lamination"; the flyer doesn't call it a seal, and I think it would be odd to call a protective lamination a "seal".

The printed design, on the other hand, was expected by Burt Co to be an initial, a monogram, or a private mark; such designs can be accurately described using the words "crest" or "seal". In other words, these types of chips - chips with lithographically printed inlays - were marketed to clubs with the expectation that the clubs would put their crests, seals, insignia, symbols, initials, monograms, or other distinctive emblems indicating their ownership on the printed inlays, making the chips impossible to duplicate.

See also here, where John Benedict says that some older chip catalogs refer to some litho inlay chips as "crest OR seal". This suggests that the relevance of the two words is not that the chips have some kind of crest and also have some kind of seal (i.e. the crest is printed and then the printed crest is sealed), but rather that the customer can have their crest or seal or insignia or symbol or other custom artwork printed on the inlay.

The Burt text describes the technique which means that Burt thinks it has value to the customer.

If you think the seal cannot be the lamination because Burt does not call it seal in their text, then how can it be the printed design as it does not call this a seal either?! I think the word "seal" in any case does not describe such a design.

Individualized chips obviously existed before c&s so this is not the innovation. The innovation is the lamination which enables a lithographic image.

The name of "inlaid" chip also describes the method, and it's normal even today to describe chip types by method and/or material not by what you can put on the chip.

 

[gmunny]

I didn’t read all the replies but here are a few pages from Dale Seymours book. Mentions both Paranoid chips and Crest and Seal. I have a few old catalogs, I’ll try to check those tomorrow.

 

[Chipenhagen]

I didn’t read all the replies but here are a few pages from Dale Seymours book. Mentions both Paranoid chips and Crest and Seal. I have a few old catalogs, I’ll try to check those tomorrow. View attachment 503985View attachment 503986

Paranoid is definitely the material. According to the Century dictionary 1910 supplement paranoid is the "trade-name for a plastic material which resembles celluloid, used for dominoes, poker chips etc." It is derived from paranite.

 

[CrazyEddie]

@gmunny, thanks for those images.

I just ordered Dale Seymour's book. Should be a fascinating read!

 

[RussB42]

It is, I have had one for yrs and always looking at it.

 

[Papasatyr]

I have a mildly damaged one of these. The damage not only hugs the inlay, and you can definitely feel a texture change, probably from said seal.

For noob chippers who want a potentially cheap clay set, give these look. They come in at least three thicknesses. Even the thinnest ones with rounded edges and weighing 6-ish grams are miles better than every plastic chip currently on the market, and arguably equal in quality to Milanos and Majestics. The thickest, crisp edge ones are nice enough to enter the “should I get ceramics, Paulsons, CPCs, or...” conversation on equal footing.

I mean seriously, a notorious mobster like Doyle Lonagan from The Sting wouldn’t play with anything but the finest.

 

[Psypher1000]

Curious if anyone uses these with any regularity? I look at a lot of them for the vintage and nostalgia, but I’d never use a set.

JButler did. FDL design.

 

[allforcharity]

I like vintage ASMs better than Paranoids. Sometimes they can be gotten at similar price points at auction or sale in community.