How is this play deep in tourney? (1 Viewer)

Anthony Martino

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122 entrants into the $220 20k guaranteed at Silks poker Room. 25 remain, 15 get paid, first is $6,400

Blinds are 1500/3000 (500) ante.

Villian is elderly woman UTG and shorter stacked with around 35k and tighter than a virgin on prom night

She raises to 9k

Folds to hero in BB who looks at AK hearts and has a total stack of 24k (includes the 3k blind he already posted)

Hero calls the additional 6k with a plan to use first in action to shove his last 15k into the pot

Reasoning is that Hero knows villian is tight and has a strong hand. Villian is 100-percent calling preflop if hero shoves, then hero HAS to win showdown

However, if hero waits until flop to shove, there is a chance villian dumps a small to medium pair if overcards fall (even if they dont hit hero) or that she lays down another AK so hero scoops instead of splits
 
Less than 3 BB at that point, should've shoved all-in.
I'm shoving 100 percent, I just opted to delay it, since I have no fold equity preflop, but act first after the flop. So instead of having to win at showdown I give myself fold equity when I shove the flop. She might fold the winning pair or another AK so I scoop instead of split
 
I'd need a very good read to believe she'll fold the flop to try this play. I'd rather just jam pre and get it over with.
 
I'd need a very good read to believe she'll fold the flop to try this play. I'd rather just jam pre and get it over with.
She is short too. If she whifs flop with AK also, or has 66-88 facing overcards against my flop shove she can fold and still have 26k which maintains forst in fold equity

Earlier she had folded TT with nothing invested pre after a short stack shoved for about a third of her stack
 
Well if she's folding 10s pre I'm even more inclined to shove.
 
What's the plan for a 345 type flop? Still jam?
I jammed blind before the flop came out. I am never folding. I think she folds winners or chops enough times to make the play better than shoving pre and guaranteeing I need to hold at showdown
 
Jamming blind before the flop comes out is probably the last way I would play the hand.

You can't check call on Axx boards, and if your opponent notices you do this ( highly likely) you have way less fold equity when you miss.

AK is super strong, at ~8bb I'm just getting it in pre 100% even if she is tight I can't imagine she would fold AJs AQ and 66+
 
I jammed blind before the flop came out. I am never folding. I think she folds winners or chops enough times to make the play better than shoving pre and guaranteeing I need to hold at showdown

I don't dislike the plan for the hand but why would you make it clear to her that you're shoving no matter what comes on the flop? Seems like it would take away at least a portion of your fold equity.
 
Hmmm, solid points. At the time I figured if I shove the flop blind she might put me on a larger pocket pair if she happened to hold one herself, since I had been only showing down strong holdings and wasn't getting out of line
 
I like this play, but definitely don't openly shove blind, as jbutler and stocky have noted. If she knows that, it defeats the purpose of the play. Make it seem like you're reacting to the flop, like any other hand.

Another way to do it could be to shove when you don't improve but check when you do improve, expecting her to shove the last few chips into you when she's beaten. After all, you do want action when you spike that A or K, but not when you don't, and this would open up a chance at both.

Whether either play is better than shoving preflop depends on Villain's range, though. If she'd make that raise with a lot of hands that are dominated by AK, then it's a waste not to shove preflop. She'll call a preflop shove with hands like AQ and KJ, which she'd fold to a flop shove if she doesn't improve. On the other hand, in the extreme case that her range is pairs only (or pairs plus AK), shoving preflop into a guaranteed coin flip would be silly.

(I'm kinda ignoring AA and KK here because they play out pretty much the same no matter what we do.)
 
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I actually feel ok about the stop and go here, but 100% agree with the critics about shoving blind. Wait for a flop, then shove any flop.

As played she can play near perfectly against you, and I think you shoved away some of that fold equity you were hoping to cultivate.
 
Deep stacked a call is fine. Short stacked a call is meh, I can understand the play if we see a flop and jam any A K board but I don't like it.
 
I really like the "stop and go" strategy (call with intention of jamming any flop) in this scenario, which is OOP versus a tight player.

However, like a few have said, the fold equity you would normally gain by using this technique is mitigated by a blind shove.
 
I think the stop and go line is great if she really is that tight that her range is super nutted. But even a tight person with 10bb must be raising AJs+ KQs. I would imagine that because she didn't shove she probably would open ATs as well instead of shipping it in. On another note she probably has less small pairs in her range as well which means you would be dominating her hand more often.

As far as flops go, i think you gain a little bit of fold equity but not much. I can't think of many flops that you shove and get a fold except for flops that help your range. If it comes J54 and she has 88 for example, you don't have enough chips to get her off her hand. I think most of the time you get a fold it's probably times when you were dominating her hand anyway and she has like AT and the flop comes Qxx.

The more I think about it the better getting it in pre is
 
I would be shoving in quicker than anything ever, regardless of Villain's tightness.
 
If it comes J54 and she has 88 for example, you don't have enough chips to get her off her hand.

You would be surprised. Some people seriously can't see past the fact that there's an overcard, and will fold to any bet while moaning something like "I can't call here." To them, calling all-in with an overcard on board is like a mortal sin, even with a very low SPR. Someone who is "tighter than a virgin on prom night" would seem to fit this description.
 
Love the line you took in a unique situation, but agree on totally defeating its purpose with the blind shove. I've used it many times to great success. So many people just wouldn't fold a pocket pair unless you pried it from their cold, dead hands. But let a K or A fall on the flop and they can't throw them away fast enough.
 
She's committed. If you shove before the flop, she's going to call and then anything can happen.

Give yourself another shot and jam first after the flop, and hope she gets scared off. Who knows what will flop. If she's tight, she may think you have a flush if 3 suited cards drop, or a full house if a low pair drops etc. More of chance to get her to fold.
 

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